Trans-black and Trans-gender

[Sherlock Holmes]

Rachel Dolezal has described herself as "trans-black" and denies doing anything wrong, denies lying.

Most African Americans disapprove of her misappropriation, misrepresenting herself, claiming to black when she in fact white.

So how does her behavior differ from a man who claims to be a woman? a man who misrepresents himself?

Are the protests of female athletes who are forced to compete with a man who claims he's a woman, any different to the protests of black people about a white women insisting she's actually a black woman?

 

[Mr Person]

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental illness, and arguments from ignorance are not arguments.

I'm amazed that anyone thinks they have finally found a clever way to present bigotry as if it was an intellectual exercise.




Yet another thread I can look at and in that moment know exactly what the OP's creator thinks he's doing, what he expects people will do, and how he will respond to them. I can already see pages stretching to 5, 10, 15, as fake loaded question after fake loaded question is deployed to try to put lipstick on this pig of a thesis. But it will still be bigotry and not an intellectual exericse.

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental illness. Bringing up Dolezal is an undeniable sign of an incoming bad faith attack on trans people, designed to have a built in (if laughable) "who, little old me? I would never say that! I'm just asking questions!" out.....

 

[Aristaeus]

Logically there is no difference.

 

[calamity]

Rachel Dolezal has described herself as "trans-black" and denies doing anything wrong, denies lying.

Most African Americans disapprove of her misappropriation, misrepresenting herself, claiming to black when she in fact white.

Last I looked that was not a legitimate psychological disorder.

So how does her behavior differ from a man who claims to be a woman? a man who misrepresents himself?

Last I looked that was.

Are the protests of female athletes who are forced to compete with a man who claims he's a woman, any different to the protests of black people about a white women insisting she's actually a black woman?

Uh, no.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental illness, and arguments from ignorance are not arguments.

I'm amazed that anyone thinks they have finally found a clever way to present bigotry as if it was an intellectual exercise.

Is Rachel Dolezal African American?

Yet another thread I can look at and in that moment know exactly what the OP's creator thinks he's doing, what he expects people will do, and how he will respond to them. I can already see pages stretching to 5, 10, 15, as fake loaded question after fake loaded question is deployed to try to put lipstick on this pig of a thesis. But it will still be bigotry and not an intellectual exericse.

I see, you prefer to attack me rather than honestly answer my questions.

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental illness. Bringing up Dolezal is an undeniable sign of an incoming bad faith attack on trans people, designed to have a built in (if laughable) "who, little old me? I would never say that! I'm just asking questions!" out.....

I am free - within the bounds imposed by forum rules - to "bring up" whatever I want to.

I interpret your response as "please don't ask questions that make me uncomfortable because I cannot honestly answer them".

 

[calamity]

I see, you prefer to attack me rather than honestly answer my questions.

No, he only pointed out that your post was ignorant, which it very much was.

I am free - within the bounds imposed by forum rules - to "bring up" whatever I want to.

Please do. I love seeing stupid posts. It makes the ticker during the hour before lunch move quicker.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

No, he only pointed out that your post was ignorant, which it very much was.

Please do. I love seeing stupid posts. It makes the ticker during the hour before lunch move quicker.

I'm not ignorant.

Here's the question, it is a sensible and reasonable question:

Are the protests of female athletes who are forced to compete with a man who claims he's a woman, any different to the protests of black people about a white women insisting she's actually a black woman?

 

[Aristaeus]

So if a white man identifies as a black woman, are we meant to say we'll recognise you as a woman but you can't be black?

 

[Rickeroo]

Rachel Dolezal has described herself as "trans-black" and denies doing anything wrong, denies lying.

Most African Americans disapprove of her misappropriation, misrepresenting herself, claiming to black when she in fact white.

So how does her behavior differ from a man who claims to be a woman? a man who misrepresents himself?

Are the protests of female athletes who are forced to compete with a man who claims he's a woman, any different to the protests of black people about a white women insisting she's actually a black woman?

It's easy, once you understand how the left works.

To the left, as well as Nazis, race is immutable and biological. There is absolutely no choice in the matter - you are born a certain race, or a mixture of races. You can't do anything about it. One of the fun parts of this whole race nonsense is watching White liberals deal with how they can't do anything about their Whiteness. "Social construct" indeed.

With sex, the left is separating two concepts: biological sex, and psychological "gender". The left acknowledges that Bruce Jenner isn't a biological woman and never can be. However, Bruce can "feel like" a woman, therefore he is deserving of the term 'woman'.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It's easy, once you understand how the left works.

To the left, as well as Nazis, race is immutable and biological. There is absolutely no choice in the matter - you are born a certain race, or a mixture of races. You can't do anything about it. One of the fun parts of this whole race nonsense is watching White liberals deal with how they can't do anything about their Whiteness. "Social construct" indeed.

With sex, the left is separating two concepts: biological sex, and psychological "gender". The left acknowledges that Bruce Jenner isn't a biological woman and never can be. However, Bruce can "feel like" a woman, therefore he is deserving of the term 'woman'.

Well I'm not sure I'd describe this as a leftist position, there are many left leaning, socialist minded people who disapprove of the recent insanity with respect to transgender issues.

I'm originally from the UK, the "left" in the UK originated from the abuse of the poor, the exploitation of the poor, where even children were forced to work in coal mines.

These communities worked physically very hard, lived in absolute poverty, lived short lives often in misery.

More recently of course the left and socialists have broadened there scope and do include issues like racial equality and so on, but I know a great many socialist minded people who are not what I would term "liberal", many socialists are far from soft, many are tough, principled, fair minded people and you'd likely find you have more in common with them than you may think.

 

[calamity]

I'm not ignorant.

The jury may yet still be out on that, but that your post was ignorant is a fact.

Here's the question, it is a sensible and reasonable question:

Are the protests of female athletes who are forced to compete with a man who claims he's a woman, any different to the protests of black people about a white women insisting she's actually a black woman?

Doubling down on stupid is just more stupid.

 

[COTO]

So how does her behavior differ from a man who claims to be a woman? a man who misrepresents himself?

It doesn't, except Ms. Dolezal's claim is likely to be politically motivated rather than the result of genuine delusion.

Having said this, you'll get a litany of "race dysphoria isn't a diagnosed mental illness" cop outs in this thread. Give it a few years, and when race dysphoria is officially a part of the DSM, the same critics will argue that we ought to respect a person's "race identity", regardless of how that correlates to their actual race.

 

[calamity]

So if a white man identifies as a black woman, are we meant to say we'll recognise you as a woman but you can't be black?

That would be the medically sound conclusion. Yes.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The jury may yet still be out on that, but that your post was ignorant is a fact.

Doubling down on stupid is just more stupid.

Very well, since you refuse to discuss the subject I'll refuse to respond any further to your insults.

 

[Rickeroo]

Well I'm not sure I'd describe this as a leftist position, there are many left leaning, socialist minded people who disapprove of the recent insanity with respect to transgender issues.

I'm originally from the UK, the "left" in the UK originated from the abuse of the poor, the exploitation of the poor, where even children were forced to work in coal mines.

These communities worked physically very hard, lived in absolute poverty, lived short lives often in misery.

More recently of course the left and socialists have broadened there scope and do include issues like racial equality and so on, but I know a great many socialist minded people who are not what I would term "liberal", many socialists are far from soft, many are tough, principled, fair minded people and you'd likely find you have more in common with them than you may think.

I don't doubt that there are lots of Americans that vote democrat (such as my boss and my brother) that believe in personal responsibility and don't much like the way race is being used. I don't think they're aware of where America is headed, as they still think democrats stand for hard work and individual responsibility.

It's as if they aren't paying attention.

 

[KevinKohler]

Last I looked that was not a legitimate psychological disorder.

Last I looked that was.

Uh, no.

Might want to pursue a different tactic. Quoting the dsm 5 is the end all be all is pretty fallible.

PMS was a mental disorder, and according to the dsm 5, in some instances, still is.

 

[Aristaeus]

That would be the medically sound conclusion. Yes.

Ethnicity and cultural heritage is far more of a spectrum than man/woman.

What if the white man had North African heritage and an afro (White people can have afros)? Would you still say he couldn't identity as black but could identity as a woman?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I don't doubt that there are lots of Americans that vote democrat (such as my boss and my brother) that believe in personal responsibility and don't much like the way race is being used. I don't think they're aware of where America is headed, as they still think democrats stand for hard work and individual responsibility.

It's as if they aren't paying attention.

The US is in trouble we can see that and the past few years have really underlined that.

The racial tension for example, that we see today, can largely be traced back to slavery, what we see today is pretty much what we'd expect to see given the fact that almost all black people are descended from freed (yet ostracized) slaves about a 150 years ago, we - white and black - are the ones dealing with the consequences, this can't be fixed, there is no magic trick for making this go away, it is a huge problem, the country is facing many such huge problems.

 

[Luce]

Rachel Dolezal has described herself as "trans-black" and denies doing anything wrong, denies lying.

Most African Americans disapprove of her misappropriation, misrepresenting herself, claiming to black when she in fact white.

So how does her behavior differ from a man who claims to be a woman? a man who misrepresents himself?

Are the protests of female athletes who are forced to compete with a man who claims he's a woman, any different to the protests of black people about a white women insisting she's actually a black woman?

So you basically sit around all day worrying about the validity of transgender people?

 

[MamboDervish]

Are the protests of female athletes who are forced to compete with a man who claims he's a woman, any different to the protests of black people about a white women insisting she's actually a black woman?

Yes - profoundly different. How can that not be obvious?

 

[jotathought]

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental illness, and arguments from ignorance are not arguments.

I'm amazed that anyone thinks they have finally found a clever way to present bigotry as if it was an intellectual exercise.




Yet another thread I can look at and in that moment know exactly what the OP's creator thinks he's doing, what he expects people will do, and how he will respond to them. I can already see pages stretching to 5, 10, 15, as fake loaded question after fake loaded question is deployed to try to put lipstick on this pig of a thesis. But it will still be bigotry and not an intellectual exericse.

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental illness. Bringing up Dolezal is an undeniable sign of an incoming bad faith attack on trans people, designed to have a built in (if laughable) "who, little old me? I would never say that! I'm just asking questions!" out.....

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental illness .. agree, Mayo Clinic defines it as:

Gender dysphoria is the feeling of discomfort or distress that might occur in people whose gender identity differs from their sex assigned at birth or sex-related physical characteristics.

My question would be .. Gender dysphoria is an identification process for those conflicted with their identity. What formalizes this identification "change" to be opposite of their birth plumbing?

 

[Rickeroo]

The US is in trouble we can see that and the past few years have really underlined that.

The racial tension for example, that we see today, can largely be traced back to slavery, what we see today is pretty much what we'd expect to see given the fact that almost all black people are descended from freed (yet ostracized) slaves about a 150 years ago, we - white and black - are the ones dealing with the consequences, this can't be fixed, there is no magic trick for making this go away, it is a huge problem, the country is facing many such huge problems.

There's something more basal than slavery at work - racial strife is worldwide regardless of past slavery. Blacks in the UK and Canada, Blacks in South Africa, aborigines in Australia. None were slaves.

 

[HonestJoe]

So how does her behavior differ from a man who claims to be a woman? a man who misrepresents himself?

That depends entirely on the individual circumstances. If you're going to learn anything from this, have it be that people should be treated on their individual merits and not how they're labelled, by themselves or others.

 

[gboisjo]

Well I'm not sure I'd describe this as a leftist position, there are many left leaning, socialist minded people who disapprove of the recent insanity with respect to transgender issues.

I'm originally from the UK, the "left" in the UK originated from the abuse of the poor, the exploitation of the poor, where even children were forced to work in coal mines.

These communities worked physically very hard, lived in absolute poverty, lived short lives often in misery.

More recently of course the left and socialists have broadened there scope and do include issues like racial equality and so on, but I know a great many socialist minded people who are not what I would term "liberal", many socialists are far from soft, many are tough, principled, fair minded people and you'd likely find you have more in common with them than you may think.

Forget that, its the whacked out, far out left in the US who can't stop talking about bathrooms ..that's what we're dealing with here.

For years, Rachel Dolezal led a secret life in the Pacific Northwest. Her friends believed she was a black woman with a passion for African-American issues. Others saw her as a vocal civil rights leader who later became the local N.A.A.C.P. president in Spokane, Wash.

What Dolezal speaks to ..is the complexity of personality around the issue of sexuality in general. Born white yearns, longs to be black is yet another example of learned
personality gone astray.

She was convicted of multiple felonies.

 

[Aristaeus]

That depends entirely on the individual circumstances. If you're going to learn anything from this, have it be that people should be treated on their individual merits and not how they're labelled, by themselves or others.

Treating them on an individual merits and not how they're "labelled' doesn't really work when it comes to sex-segregated spaces.