George_Washington
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Technocratic_Utilitarian said:Who cares if they fufill a need. THere is no teleology in nature. They don't have to serve a purpouse. Purpouse servering != moral, good, or bad. Playing hockey doesn't serve a purpouse for special survival either. This is an irrelevant concept.
Busta said:I, also, could not support morality seaming form an imaginary being. That's why I base my morality on an actual being: God.
Crack babies and homosexuality sher a very general commonality in that they are both personal flaws and limitations.
You loose me with the whole "!=..." thing. I have no idea what that is.
Playing Hockey serves a purpose to the species in that commercial sport produces allot of money and, thus, is good for our economy. The health of our economy dictates everything from taxes collected (which results in state funded medical heath care and other social fail-safes) to scientific research and development (at the very least, you have to pay to keep the lights and refrigerators on).
The attributes of an individual player will attract mates, thus ensuring the survival of that Hockey player's genetic line.
Oh well. Like the name of the thread says..."Train Wreck: Continued".
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:You cannot "create" new homosexuals other than by having them biologically.
George_Washington said:Not true. Some people become homosexuals after becoming sexually abused. This is a common known fact in the medical and psychiatric community.
Columbusite said:Oh really...http://www.healthyminds.org/glbissues.cfm (American Psychiatric Association)
"no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse." (bold mine)
http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html#whatcauses (American Psychological Association)
Busta said:"If you want to use that as your personal moral guide, fine, but you cannot force it on others....."
Ya, I can; at least in so far as any law could be "forced" on any citizen. It's called "voting". In fact, the entire purpose voting is so that individual citizens can have a say as to what should and should not be allowed. Since the "why" is not recorded, I can have any "why" that I please.
Columbusite said:Don't be a retard. Laws must abide by our Constitution. You telling me people should have been able to vote on interracial marriage?
George_Washington said:That doesn't contradict what I said. I have a cousin who is a psychologist who counsels youths and he's told me some of them who have been sexually abused often thought they were gay or lesbian but in fact they were just confused by the sexual abuse.
I don't see anything on that site that contradicts what I said.
Also just because those sites claim that being gay/lesbian isn't a choice, doesn't mean that there aren't psychologists out there that do think it's a choice.
Busta said:Oh no....name calling.....Columbusite's starting to crack.
Laws must abide by our Constitution, yes. And what does our Constitution abide by?
People should have been able to vote on inter racial marriage, yes. My point of view would have been a strong argument supporting inter-racial marriage.
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:This is pointless. Let Busta hide beind his wall of ignorance. You cannot make someone think something. This debate is over as far as I am concerned. I have nothing to worry about anyway, since (thank the godless), we have a system of checks and balances in which religious people can talk a lot, but do little long term damage. To them, things like law, justice, and ethics are meaningless when it comes to the giant sky-pixi.
So Columbusite, don't let him ride you to the looney-bin. You won't convince him any more than you can convince a serial killer what he's doing is wrong. Just imagine that Busta is Gasey. Let the Fundie be.
If he did not feel a slight tug toward your opinion, why else would he be bothering to debate you. Of course, the same is true of you. So, in the spirit of exchange of free thought, continue this discourse, if not for your own gratification, then for my entertainment and added knowledge!
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:I think he's just egging me on to irritate me, not to really be swayed. I think that because I do the same thing to others. I have no more ammo. He's like one of those martian tripods. I can shoot nukes all day at him and it won't get through, because he has the magic god-shield. It's logically impenetrable.
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:This is nonsense. Homosexuality isn't only natural among homosexuals any more than sickel-cell anemia is only natural among people with sickel-cell disease. Homosexuality and sickel-cell syndrom are natural regardless of what group has them; they are natural period. Anyone that has it is simply getting something natural.
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:I think he's just egging me on to irritate me, not to really be swayed. I think that because I do the same thing to others. I have no more ammo. He's like one of those martian tripods. I can shoot nukes all day at him and it won't get through, because he has the magic god-shield. It's logically impenetrable.
Columbusite said:You said that "Some people become homosexuals after becoming sexually abused.This is a common known fact in the medical and psychiatric community."
"no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse." - APA
George_Washington said:Sigh. That doesn't mean people can't become confused. It just means that they don't know if there is any one single, dominant cause of homosexuality. It means in general sexual abuse doesn't cause homosexuality but that does not rule out the possiblity of a single individual being confused, nor does it rule out that sexual abuse can cause other things, too. In psychology you have to treat each patient as an individual. If a patient comes to you and says he's gay and was also sexually abused, a good psychologist wouldn't rule out the possiblity that he could be confused.
Busta said:The Constitution abides by "We The People", an element of it's self, yes, but "We The People" is so much more than that at the same time.
What do us People abide by?
You make a good point. I'll concede that one to you.
If The People do not like what the Constitution says about a given issue, and Judges have ruled according to what the Constitution says, then The people can pressure their representative to start a piece of legislation, even an Amendment, which would be in line with what The People see as right and just. Due Possess will play its self out from that point.
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:This is pointless. Let Busta hide beind his wall of ignorance. You cannot make someone think something. This debate is over as far as I am concerned. I have nothing to worry about anyway, since (thank the godless), we have a system of checks and balances in which religious people can talk a lot, but do little long term damage. To them, things like law, justice, and ethics are meaningless when it comes to the giant sky-pixi.
So Columbusite, don't let him ride you to the looney-bin. You won't convince him any more than you can convince a serial killer what he's doing is wrong. Just imagine that Busta is Gasey. Let the Fundie be.
George_Washington said:Sigh. That doesn't mean people can't become confused. It just means that they don't know if there is any one single, dominant cause of homosexuality. It means in general sexual abuse doesn't cause homosexuality but that does not rule out the possiblity of a single individual being confused, nor does it rule out that sexual abuse can cause other things, too. In psychology you have to treat each patient as an individual. If a patient comes to you and says he's gay and was also sexually abused, a good psychologist wouldn't rule out the possiblity that he could be confused.
Columbusite said:I see what you're saying in that it could be a factor. I just wanted to make it very clear that there is no cause that can be pinpointed as of yet. Confusion or not, choice or not, that doesn't change the fact that gay marriage should be legal.
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