Busta said:Since I wasn't talking about God hating anyone, and I've made clear that I am just as "worthy of death" as any homosexual, I'm afraid I don't follow what you are trying to say.
Busta said:Yes, God disaproves of Homosexuality.
Everyone on Earth has equil access to God. You can use prayer, meditation, whatever you like. Our cores are the same, we all came from the same place, and we will all end up in the same place.
Depends upon which faith you adhere to. Some believe that you end up in another animal, some believe we end up in 'Heaven', dancing eternally among the faeries. If you mean we all 'DIE' then yes, you're right.
I did not sugest that I had more privvy to 'God's word' than you, you assumed that. Just as you assumed that anti same-sex marriage legislation is "punishment". You have yet to provide any evidence of either.
I've provided every bit of evidence that it is INTOLERANT and bigoted, if you can't SEE it, that is your problem, not mine.
"Every person on this planet is no more worthy or unworthy than anyone else."
Hello? That's what I've been saying.....
Am I not the one who showed the "Rule-Zero" for following divine law?
James 2:10;
10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker".
Adultery is not a 'sin'. Though it may be according to your understanding and that's fine, but don't try to suggest that your understanding has any more merit than anyone else's. Because it does NOT.
"For you to suggest that God approves of YOUR lifestyle more than mine is actually a very blasphemous thing to say -- and that's using YOUR idea of God."
Now you are altering the parameters of this thread by going beyond the scope of gay 'marriage.
Why not? You DID, when you spoke of 'sin'. I can 'go beyond' any scope I choose to in order to prove my point.
As I have said over and over and over.......I am no more innocent than any homosexual, nor am I any less "worthy of death" than any homosexual. *I am just as guilty as you.*
But I'm not guilty. That's the difference between you and me I suppose. I don't believe in a God that penalizes and punishes. That's where your spiritual understanding is different from mine. There simply IS no 'final judgement'. We are judged every day by the choices we make and the consequences that they entail.
"The Lord rebukes you" does not say any of what you have assumed that I implied. That was a quote from the Arch Angel Micheal:
Jude 1:9;
"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."
That means nothing to me. I don't read words written by men who fear God. I don't fear God.
Basically, saying (granted, in modern English) "The Lord rebukes you" is a way of telling someone that they are inconsistent with God's law and will, WITHOUT accusation, insult or implied superiority.
Nope. It's just an excuse to practice intolerance. You could choose any number of 'sins' to attack. Why aren't you out trying to prevent fornicators from marrying and suggest a ban on that?? That is a 'sin' that really HAS done damage to the 'institution'.
You said that God had blessed a homosexual union, yet homosexuality is rejected the very law that those women wished to be married by. So, I was using our mutual idea of God, not my own.
You can believe that if you want. God does not reject homosexuality. God blesses it and loves to see peple express love for one another. How or whom they express love to is of no consquence.
If I were as you wish me to be painted, then I would have never conceded my vote so as too be in favor of same-sex 'marriage.
Irony:sissy-boy said:
Nope. It really doens't matter to me how you feel about same-sex marriage, you can rally against it all you want. It's when intolerance creepst into LAW and our government that causes the problems. Just as it has throughout America's history. This year it's gay marriage. Last year it was inter-racial marriage. The year after next it will be abortion or the death penalty.
I would go so far as to call rallying against homosexuals 'hate speech'. Like the minister in Scandanavia who was criminally charged, I wouldn't be dissappointed if these christian evangelicals would be arrested for such words against homosexuality.
Busta said:"Depends upon which faith you adhere to. Some believe that you end up in another animal, some believe we end up in 'Heaven', dancing eternally among the faeries. If you mean we all 'DIE' then yes, you're right."
No, I'm not talking about death.
We all have the same divine spark of life. We all came from God. We will all end up back with God.
"I've provided every bit of evidence that it is INTOLERANT and bigoted, if you can't SEE it, that is your problem, not mine."
You presented evidence of your own assumptions and interpretations, and that's what I saw.
"The Lord rebukes you" doesn't imply any of what you assumed. It just miens that you are not compliant with God's law on that issue. That's it.
"Adultery is not a 'sin'."
The Lord rebukes you.
"Though it may be according to your understanding and that's fine, but don't try to suggest that your understanding has any more merit than anyone else's. Because it does NOT."
Merit proves itself. I need suggest nothing.
Would you like a bible quote or two?...perhaps something from the quaran?..a side of Yin-Yang in absence of Yin-Yin or Yang-Yang?...should I liken it to phisics with a splash of "opposites attract".......2 plugs nor 2 sockets will compleat the cirkit with out intervention (= unnatural)....you can not power your computer with electrons allone, there must also be protons at the other end of the circit....perhaps I'll give my old Wiccan priestess a call and ask her to explain how the elimination of either the masculine or the feminine would retain balance...or should I go back to the point-blank observation that the software doesn't match the hardware? A woman is physically incapable of being a husband. A man is phisically incapable of being a wife.
An evidence of a natural order is the fact that neither 2 healthy men, nor 2 healthy women, can "be one flesh" and produce children; they must always go outside of their relationship to do so, just like an unhealthy opposite-sex couple.
A healthy man and a healthy woman, however, can produce children within their union.
As I've said, if one wishes to persue a homosexual relationship, so be it. I will not oppose you. But to say that it is the same as an opposite-sex union is a lie.
"Why not? You DID, when you spoke of 'sin'. I can 'go beyond' any scope I choose to in order to prove my point."
You said that God blessed a homosexual union. Homosexuality is rejected by the very law that those women wished to be married by.
Either God did not bless such a union, or in doing so He contradicted Himself, thus nullifying His own law, and rendering inert such a blessing.
Since God's law is still around, He did not contradict himself. witch only leaves the first option: He didn't bless such a union.
"But I'm not guilty."
Say it with me now...The....Lord....rebukes....you....
We are all law breakers.
I don't believe in a God that penalizes and punishes.
Not now that we have had the final sacrifice for sin, no. He leaves us to our divices unless we ask for intervention.
You might say that God is very pro. Choice.
"That's where your spiritual understanding is different from mine. There simply IS no 'final judgment'. We are judged every day by the choices we make and the consequences that they entail."
Sure, consequences exist, but that is not the judgment.
Betty J. Eadie, in her book Embraced By the Light, sums up my consept of the big J.:
(page #112...emphasis in original)
"I stepped to my left too wach the review. It occurred in the place where I had been standing. My life appeared before me in the form of what we might consider extremely well defined holograms, but at tremendous speed. I was astonished that I could understand so much information at such a speed. My comprehension much more than what I remember happening during each event of my life. I not only experienced my own emotionsat each moment, but also what others around me felt.
"I experienced their thoughts and feelings about me.There were times when things became clear to me in a new way "Yes", I would say to myself. "Oh, yes. Now I see. Well who would have guessed? But of course it makes sense."
"I saw the disappointment that I had cawsed in others, and I cringed as their feelings of disappointment filled me, compounded by my own guilt. I understood all the suffering I had caused, and I felt it. I began to tremble. I saw how much grief my bad temper had caused, and I suffered this grief. I saw my selfishness, and my heart cried for relief. How could I been so uncaring?
"Then in the midst of my pain, I felt the love of the council come over me. They watched my life with understanding and mercy. Everything about me was taken into consideration, how I was raised, the things I had been thought, the pain given me by others, the opportunities I had received or not received. And I realized that the council was not judging me. I was judging my self.
"Their love and mercy were absolute. Their respect for me could never be lessened. I was especially greatfull for their love as the next phase of my review passed before me.
"I was shown the "ripple effect", as they described it. I saw how I had wronged people and how they had often turned to others and committed a similar wrong. This chain continued from victim to victim, like a circle of domino's, until it came back. I had offended far more people then I knew, and my pain multiplied and became unbearable.
"The Savior stepped toward me, full of concern and love. His spirit gave me strength, and he said that I was judging myself too critically. "You are being too harsh on yourself", he said. Then he showed me the reverse side of the ripple effect.
'I saw myself perform an act of kindness, just a simple act of unselfishness, and I saw the ripples go out again. The friend I had been kind to was kind in turn kind to one of her friends, and the chain repeated itself.
I saw love and happiness increase in other's lives because of that one simple act on my part. I saw their happiness grow and affect their lives in positive ways, some significantly. My pain was replaced with joy. I felt the love they felt, I felt their joy. And this from one simple act of kindness.
"A powerfull thought hit me, and I repeated it over and over in my mind: "Love is really the only thing that matters. Love is really the only thing that matters, and love is joy."
I recalled the scripture that said, "I have come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" (John 10:10), and my soul was filled with this abundant joy."
"That means nothing to me. I don't read words written by men who fear God. I don't fear God."
You choose the 'blue pill' instead of the 'red pill'. That's fine, but until you choose to fear God you will not understand why you need fear nothing at all; nor will you understand the wisdom in faith.
"Nope. It's just an excuse to practice intolerance."
That's what you would like it to be, because that would fit your view of the world. But just isn't so.
"You could choose any number of 'sins' to attack."
And were back to "attacking" again. As I said, I am not predisposed to a persecution complex. I am not "attacking" anything.
"Why aren't you out trying to prevent fornicators from marrying and suggest a ban on that?? That is a 'sin' that really HAS done damage to the 'institution."
Fornication don by anyone not married is just fornication. Fornication don by married people which involves someone who said married person is not married to is called Adultery.
"You can believe that if you want. God does not reject homosexuality. God blesses it and loves to see people express love for one another. How or whom they express love to is of no consequence."
There you go with the whole "God blesses homosexuality" thing again.
Sure, why don't you just say "God blesses adultery" or "God blesses theft"? You would make just as much sense.
The Lord rebukes you.
God blesses love and forgives homosexuality.
The consequence of homosexuality has to do with the adversary's plan to weaken us.
Shall we discuss that?
Busta said:From Embraced by the Light, by Betty J. Eadie, page 110;
"I saw the spirit of God resting upon Eve, and I understood that the role of women would always be unique in the world. I saw that the emotional structure of women allowed them to be more responsive to love and to allow the Spirit of God to rest upon them more fully. I understood that their roles as mothers literally gave them a special relationship to God as creators.
"I also understood the peril of women faced from Satan. I saw that he would use the same process of temptation in the world that had been used in the garden. He would try to distroy families, and therefore humanity, by tempting women. This unsettled me, but I knew it was true. His plan seemed obvious.
"He would attack women through their restlessness, using their strength of their emotions-the same emotions that gave Eve power to move when Adam was too satisfied with his situation. I understood that he would attack the relationship between husband and wife, distancing them from eachother, using the attractions of sex and greed to distroy their home.
I saw that children would be damaged by broken homes and that women would then be weighed down with fear and perhaps guilt-guilt as they saw their families fall apart, and fear for the future.
"Satan could then use fear and guilt to distroy women and their divinly appointed purpose on earth. I was told that once Satan had the women, the men would easily follow."
sissy-boy said:
I couldn't even bother reading more than the first couple sentences,
Busta said:Irony:
First you say "It's when intolerance creepst into LAW and our government that causes the problems";
Then you say "I would go so far as to call rallying against homosexuals 'hate speech'......I wouldn't be dissappointed if these christian evangelicals would be arrested for such words against homosexuality.";
So much for tolerating others when they have an opposing view. You prove yourself of being just as intolerent as you accuse me of being.
See my Sig.
jallman said:And herein lies about 30% of the reason you have no credibility. The other 70%...well, we arent in the basement now, so I will refrain from making that assertion here.
sissy-boy said:
I didn't need to read it. I skimmed over it and it said nothing more than the 8 previous posts. But, for YOU, I'll paraphrase: He said that you were not worthy of God's approval because of what sex you chose to love. Now if YOU are going to tell me you agree with that, then I suggest you go back to your 'tolerant' church.
jallman said:Hmmm. thats funny...I didnt get that at all. I read that sects of Christianity have a moral opposition to homosexuality...I gathered that Busta has a personal objection to the homosexual lifestyle that stems from his own spiritual conviction and that given the choice, no he would not vote pro gay marriage. However, true to form, the only intolerance and bigotry I am seeing is yours against his personal choice of religion.
sissy-boy said:
HAHAHA!!
hmmmm...
Well let's see, how about I start a RELIGION who's moral PRINCIPLE is to rail against heterosexual marriage and get the government to try to pass my 'religious principle' as law. Would you join that church? You joined one that thinks that you're nothing more than a sinner, why not join my church? We could call it 'Antiheteromatrimonialism'. Of course we'd only allow persons to join who wouldn't actively go out and push the law that our Bible calls for to KILL heterosexuals that marry, we'd be tolerant and merely explain to them that they are simply not going to inherit God's kingdom and that they should not be permitted to teach our children to eat corn on the cob because they're sinning perverts. Does that sound better? Of course that isn't INTOLERANT now is it?
What d'ya say? Wanna SIGN UP?
jallman said:I should have expected no more than this silliness. I dont think I have ever seen busta make a comment to the effect that he wishes to pass law banning gay marriage...only that he would not vote for it if presented the bill. What is your problem? I'm serious now...do you have such raging wood to be insulting that you dont read...well who am I kidding, you already admitted that you dont read posts.
It's a shame you didn't read it. Betty J. Eadie's book Embraced By the Light is a good read.sissy-boy said:
That's an awfully long mouthful of 'I'm right and you're wrong." I couldn't even bother reading more than the first couple sentences, but I suppose for you that is the only 'Truth' you're willing to trust and have faith in. And since it is, all I can wish you is the simple PROMISE that 'More will be revealed." I hope that you will come to know God and trust in God as I have and I'm sorry that you're so limited in such a fundamentally repressed way. The Universe is a LOT more complex and wonderful than your ideology seems to allow and with that limited of a worldview it must be hard to dream.
I'll just try to remember a couple words some fool said 'Forgive them, for they know not what they say.'
Peace & Queer Love, Not WAR!!
Um....I'm not a member of the clergy nor am I calling for anyone's death.sissy-boy said:
I'm all for free speech. But when ministers call for DEATH, like so many do, that is crossing the line. How would YOU like it if some of the idiots like Fred Phelps came to your DAUGHTER'S FUNERAL with signs about killing her because she had SEX?!
You may say that godhatesfags.com is an example of christian extremism, but more and more I see groups like this popping up all over the nation. And more and more this brand of 'christian extremism' is becoming the norm and THEY simply regard themselves as FAITHFUL Christians, much like the FAITHFUL Muslims who attacked the WTC on 9/11. These religious fanatics who are willing to DIE or KILL for their 'cause' are dangerous and are fast becoming synonymous with terrorism itself.
And to say we haven't been warned about this already is a little naive.
Quite the opposite, really.sissy-boy said:
I didn't need to read it. I skimmed over it and it said nothing more than the 8 previous posts. But, for YOU, I'll paraphrase: He said that you were not worthy of God's approval because of what sex you chose to love. Now if YOU are going to tell me you agree with that, then I suggest you go back to your 'tolerant' church.
I just don't see how you make the leap from "dislike and disapproval" (= abomination) to "hate". That passage does not promote "hate". That passage tells you that God disapproves and dislikes homosexual sex......that doesn't even apply to a homosexual relationship....just the act of sex itself.Duke said:Leviticus 18:22 states: "Thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination." I came across this quote quite randomly whilst researching, and I thought of this thread. Writing like this makes me question many parts of Christianity, for in the holiest documents they have statments that could support hate. I know that most Christians do not take the Bible and other holy writings literally, (IE: "spirit of the law" etc.) but it does make a person ponder.
Duke
If I may correct something here.....jallman said:Hmmm. thats funny...I didnt get that at all. I read that sects of Christianity have a moral opposition to homosexuality...I gathered that Busta has a personal objection to the homosexual lifestyle that stems from his own spiritual conviction and that given the choice, no he would not vote pro gay marriage. However, true to form, the only intolerance and bigotry I am seeing is yours against his personal choice of religion.
Busta said:If I may correct something here.....
I conceded my vote a while back and WILL vote in favor of same-sex 'marriage. Homosexual people have asked for marital rights, so, just because they asked, for my part I will give it to them.
I hope that many same-sex couples form loving families and improve upon society.
Sissy-boy keeps accusing me of being intolerant, etc....yet I support his ability to legally 'wed another man.
We disagree philosophically..with the exception of the impotence of love. So I suppose that my vote in support of same-sex 'marriage is a gift of love toward my fellow Man. I give it freely and with out condition.
:thanks: You really know how to make a guy feel special.....jallman said:Wow, busta...I have to say that I am very impressed by that decision and it shows that I was right about you all along! I was referencing our earlier conversations in the above post. I hadnt realized that you had come around on that topic. Way to go man!!! You are a stand up guy.
Busta said:I just don't see how you make the leap from "dislike and disapproval" (= abomination) to "hate". That passage does not promote "hate". That passage tells you that God disapproves and dislikes homosexual sex......that doesn't even apply to a homosexual relationship....just the act of sex itself.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?