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Top generals testify that Trump's deal with the Taliban hurt morale among Afghan forces and 'negatively' affected their performance

SNOWFLAKE said:
Biden should have evacuated all Americans and friendlies long before he did, he KNEW the deal Trump made with the Taliban. It was botched in terms of timing and waiting too long.
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Americans are not required to leave any where until there is a NEO (noncombatant evacuation order). Do you believe if that was issued it would have slowed the Taliban? Probably the opposite. If the US was still in Afghanistan on 9.1.21, it is quite likely they would have started offensive operations again. How many airplanes would have left Kabul safely then?

124,000 people airlifted out. 13 soldiers dead (surprise...soldiers die in war zones). If you consider the evacuation botched, you are blaming the military.
botch, verb. to carry out a task badly or carelessly.

Words have meaning.
 
roguenuke said:
Was the "blow up" able to be reasonably avoided while still getting us fully out of Afghanistan? If you think so, please describe exactly what plan would most likely have resulted in something better, allowed us to leave without what we saw happen happening.
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These people don't do that, they have no ideas, they just attack and act like Children, have to get those stupid poopyhead liberals.
 
mrjurrs said:
Americans are not required to leave any where until there is a NEO (noncombatant evacuation order). Do you believe if that was issued it would have slowed the Taliban? Probably the opposite. If the US was still in Afghanistan on 9.1.21, it is quite likely they would have started offensive operations again. How many airplanes would have left Kabul safely then?

124,000 people airlifted out. 13 soldiers dead (surprise...soldiers die in war zones). If you consider the evacuation botched, you are blaming the military.
botch, verb. to carry out a task badly or carelessly.

Words have meaning.
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I stand by my evaluation - you don't leave a house while it is burning down, you leave it as soon as the fire starts.
In fact, every one asked, whether military or in the white house, said "we didn't think it would collapse this quickly" then how is it that me, a nobody, from Canada no less, could have seen this coming?
 
GummyVitamins said:
Russia, Russia, Russia...

It's just subconscious at this point.
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BENGHAZI! Pizzagate! Hunter Biden! Jewish Space Lasers! Stolen elections! the MSM and the Deep State! George Soros!
CHINA, CHINA, CHINA...
 
SNOWFLAKE said:
I stand by my evaluation - you don't leave a house while it is burning down, you leave it as soon as the fire starts.
In fact, every one asked, whether military or in the white house, said "we didn't think it would collapse this quickly" then how is it that me, a nobody, from Canada no less, could have seen this coming?
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Are you f'ing kidding me. If you don't leave when the fire starts and you stay while it is burning you end up dead. Just like X more American soldiers would have died if we didn't leave when we did.
 
mrjurrs said:
Are you f'ing kidding me. If you don't leave when the fire starts and you stay while it is burning you end up dead. Just like X more American soldiers would have died if we didn't leave when we did.
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They should have started the evacuation months before they did, because they should have known that "it would collapse this quickly."
And before you get your shorts into a knot, I support Biden, and I am a Liberal myself, but fair criticism is fair criticism, attempting to stifle fair criticism is what the other side does.
 
GummyVitamins said:
Russia, Russia, Russia...

It's just subconscious at this point. The propaganda has done its job. The lemmings have been created.
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Apparently Russia never got dominion over eastern Europe after WWII, nor have they invaded Ukraine.

What does feel like being totally ignorant of 20th century history?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Apparently Russia never got dominion over eastern Europe after WWII, nor have they invaded Ukraine.

What does feel like being totally ignorant of 20th century history?
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You think we have troops in Europe solely for Russia? The 1960s called, they want their foreign policy back. The US keeps troops throughout the world because it helps us protect our allies and having a distributed military makes us more effective.

The US has 50K troops in Japan, 35K troops in Germany, 26K troops South Korea, 12K troops in Italy, 10,000 in the UK, 6K in Guam, 4K in Bahrain, 3K in Spain, etc. The advice of leaving 2500 troops behind in Afghanistan to keep the country stable enough to not leave our people behind should have been heeded.
 
GummyVitamins said:
You think we have troops in Europe solely for Russia? The 1960s called, they want their foreign policy back. The US keeps troops throughout the world because it helps us protect our allies and having a distributed military makes us more effective.
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LOL....who do our allies in EUROPE want help in protection from? What do you think NATO was created for?

Good grief.



GummyVitamins said:
The US has 50K troops in Japan, 35K troops in Germany, 26K troops South Korea, 12K troops in Italy, 10,000 in the UK, 6K in Guam, 4K in Bahrain, 3K in Spain, etc. The advice of leaving 2500 troops behind in Afghanistan to keep the country stable enough to not leave our people behind should have been heeded.
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Jeez, now your argument is going all amnesiac over Doha.
 
GummyVitamins said:
Afghanistan is Germany 80 years ago and an example of what happens when democracy is protected,
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Did it take twenty years to bring democracy to Germany?
 
SNOWFLAKE said:
Teaching geography to a Rightie??
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Did you watch the hearings? I assume not based on your responses. The generals advised Biden to leave a small group to help the Afghani military/government in a purely support role for a temporary period of time before transitioning into a contractor-led takeover and complete troop withdrawal. The goal was to help keep the Afghani government stable and help them thwart off the Taliban. Biden said no and insisted on bringing everyone home. Biden was told that would mean the country would rapidly fall to the Taliban and he didn't care. We then chose to leave our people behind.

I know you say you disagree with Biden's handling of Afghanistan, but ignoring what seems to be the advice from every senior military and defense leader in his cabinet that has been asked is dumb. Everyone had the ultimate goal of getting all troops out of Afghanistan and everyone's advice was to meet that end. However, their advice was provided in the way that would best protect our people and our troops in the withdrawal process as well as give the Afghani government the best chance of success. Biden didn't seem to care about that. All he cared about was getting everyone home as quickly as possible regardless of the aftermath. The only thing he cared about defending was the embassy because he didn't want bad publicity of people being left behind at the embassy.
 
GummyVitamins said:
Afghanistan is Germany 80 years ago and an example of what happens when democracy is protected,
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That was a very different situation. Germany didn't have an internal threat after WWII, but rather an external threat. It was essentially caught in a tug of war between the US and other Western Democracies and Russia. We even had a term for it, the Cold War. Afghanistan has a population that is based on tribalism and very different than Germany. From my understanding, the people in East Germany didn't want the Berlin Wall up at all, disagreed with being divided as they were, ruled by major powers in conflict.
 
GummyVitamins said:
Did you watch the hearings? I assume not based on your responses. The generals advised Biden to leave a small group to help the Afghani military/government in a purely support role for a temporary period of time before transitioning into a contractor-led takeover and complete troop withdrawal. The goal was to help keep the Afghani government stable and help them thwart off the Taliban. Biden said no and insisted on bringing everyone home. Biden was told that would mean the country would rapidly fall to the Taliban and he didn't care. We then chose to leave our people behind.

I know you say you disagree with Biden's handling of Afghanistan, but ignoring what seems to be the advice from every senior military and defense leader in his cabinet that has been asked is dumb. Everyone had the ultimate goal of getting all troops out of Afghanistan and everyone's advice was to meet that end. However, their advice was provided in the way that would best protect our people and our troops in the withdrawal process as well as give the Afghani government the best chance of success. Biden didn't seem to care about that. All he cared about was getting everyone home as quickly as possible regardless of the aftermath.
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So allow private security companies to control another country? That's a horrible plan.
 
GummyVitamins said:
Cool story bro, now do the UN. :rolleyes:
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I have no idea what this means....beyond that fact that you continuously move goal posts and make false comparisons while not having any grasp of why we still have bases in the EU....along with not getting that the Taliban would certainly not allow a nation it is at war with to keep bases on its territory.

You want to compare it to Europe, where we are not at war with Germany, GB or Italy who we help to protect from Russian aggression.

Protip.....try constructing a coherent argument instead of posting knee jerk comments that make no sense.
 
roguenuke said:
How much do you have access to? Do you know that they were considering everything? Do you know what else was discussed there?

It takes more than just one set of intelligence to make such major decisions. You have to recognize that other things will affect the situation at hand, how difficult or easy certain scenarios will be to maintain. And military leaders underestimate other groups all the time, refuse to recognize diplomatic options, including retreat, as something that should be considered all the time. One fallback for most military leaders, even/especially good ones, is that they tend to not want to recognize a scenario where they are essentially defeated, where their goals are not going to be reached.
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You are the one claiming you have a better handle on the situation on the ground then the leaders in charge of Afghanistan. That fact that you have to try and put this back on me answers all those questions rather completly.

Who said anything about only having one set of intelligence. Oh thats right no one. Why do you think every major command has personal to advice them on all aspects of what is going on in the area. From civil affairs to state depth LNOs to what our IC is collecting. But I am sure you have something comparable right.

So at the end of the day we have the opinion of people who there very job is to know what is going on and consider all the angles of a situation and have access to all the intelligence that the US military collects as well as years doing just that at the highest levels and the we have your opinion. Supported by nothing but your feelings and without any first hand experience or access to any actual intelligence other then what you find on media.

Sorry but I think if you would look at this objectively you would realize just how silly your claims sound.
 
GummyVitamins said:
Did you watch the hearings? I assume not based on your responses. The generals advised Biden to leave a small group to help the Afghani military/government in a purely support role for a temporary period of time before transitioning into a contractor-led takeover and complete troop withdrawal. The goal was to help keep the Afghani government stable and help them thwart off the Taliban. Biden said no and insisted on bringing everyone home. Biden was told that would mean the country would rapidly fall to the Taliban and he didn't care. We then chose to leave our people behind.

I know you say you disagree with Biden's handling of Afghanistan, but ignoring what seems to be the advice from every senior military and defense leader in his cabinet that has been asked is dumb. Everyone had the ultimate goal of getting all troops out of Afghanistan and everyone's advice was to meet that end. However, their advice was provided in the way that would best protect our people and our troops in the withdrawal process as well as give the Afghani government the best chance of success. Biden didn't seem to care about that. All he cared about was getting everyone home as quickly as possible regardless of the aftermath. The only thing he cared about defending was the embassy because he didn't want bad publicity of people being left behind at the embassy.
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my rebuttal about teaching a Rightie about geography concerned your comment about leaving troops in Germany, so maybe I should have added "teaching history to a Rightie." :rolleyes:
 
GummyVitamins said:
The generals advised Biden to leave a small group to help the Afghani military/government in a purely support role for a temporary period of time before transitioning into a contractor-led takeover and complete troop withdrawal.
Click to expand...
Uh, that was not allowed in the Doha agreement.
 
Plasmaball said:
www.businessinsider.com

Top generals testify that Trump's deal with the Taliban hurt morale among Afghan forces and 'negatively' affected their performance

Both Gen. Mark Milley and Gen. Kenneth McKenzie said that the Doha agreement with the Taliban hurt Afghan troop's morale.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

theweek.com

Trump initially gave the order to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by Jan. 15, Joint Chiefs Chair Milley confirms

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week
theweek.com theweek.com

So let's just go over how ****ing stupid and crazy the former president is.

He created a bad deal with the Taliban and he panicked so hard he wanted to get out of Afghanistan even sooner and on a worse time line.

But hey trump supporters like him because he was just like them and that's why our nation is going down a toilet.
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This whole fiasco is on Biden. He is the one who botched the withdrawl. The fact that the Afghan forces were going to fall as soon as we left has been evident for years. The fact is that the Afghans support the Taliban just like the Vietnamese supported the Viet Cong. Pull your head out of your backside and look arround. Biden is a fool and the Democrats are going to lose big in the next election and printing propaganda on forums will not change that one bit.
 
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