Top 3% of U.S. Taxpayers Paid Majority of Income Taxes in 2016 (1 Viewer)

[Bullseye]

I'm no fan of trump's tariffs, but agree with you here in that we should not be importing cheap labor to compete with American workers. And not trying to make this partisan, but Trump benefits from the cheap labor he employs. He increased the number of H2Bs recently, helping himself in the process. This is a conflict.

And no one else benefited from the H2B's at all? Maybe the agency that actually did the increase should have added a rider "except for Trump businesses" to the increase.

Full disclosure: I'm no fan of H1B or H2B visas. Hire America.

 

[Bullseye]

Would you rather pay 0% income tax on 10k of income or 50% tax on 1 million in income?

Where does the money come from that the wealthy collect? It comes from the hard work of everyone below them (and also their hard work). So it's a tax on the money that is funneled upwards to the ownership class.

Are the wealthy victims here?

Nobody is a "victim". People doing that "hard work" are paid to do it.


One point: Although the distribution of wealth has been pretty steady for decades the ACTUAL people occupying those percentages changes constantly. For instance a person just entering the work force tomorrow would be on the extreme left. However over his working career it's like he would move to the right, almost everyone does that, and some make it all the way to right.

 

[Bullseye]

Hah! Thanks.

I'm no fan of H1B, though. I experienced it first hand. And it was the final nail in the coffin for me with corporate life. I left, and never looked back! :thumbs:

I actually had a reverse H1B experience early in my career. Just after graduating I blasted out hundreds of resumes - this was well before linkedin and Indeed, etc.

One day I got a call for an interview and went in. The opening was for a senior lead engineer developing software for a complex communications system. Needless to say I didn't get the job.


Several months later I got a letter from a government agency telling me that my name had been provided on a list the company had provided that it had conducted an extensive search for qualified American engineers to go along with its application to fill the position via H1B.

 

[Bullseye]

Nobody wonders this.

It's about proportion. A millionaire who pays 5% taxes will pay more than the factory worker who also pays 5%. But for that millionaire, 5% is a flushing. For that worker, that 5% is a burden to family. Of course, those millionaires and billionaires, who are attached to high level corporations and banks, will turn around and ask the government for a handout after they bust the economy; and for the deployment of the military to protect their revenue stream, won't they?

But why are you so obsessed with protecting the wealthy anyway? What's the point? They aren't going to give you any of it. They weren't hurting before the tax-cut Bill celebrated their status, and they are damn sure not hurting now.

And, of course, the reverse is true: When both get a 5% tax rate reduction the millionaire will have a substantially greater saving then the factory worker. Simple math, but it seems to drive some people absolutely bonkers.

 

[Bullseye]

typical republican propaganda. The rich pay all the taxes.

but they avoid the statement that they make all the money.

we are supposed to have a progressive tax code. that means that the more you make the higher percentage of income you pay in taxes. Reality is if you do your research on effective tax rates you will find that from about 50 thousand to the top 1% effective tax rates are about the same and for that 1% effective tax rates are considerably less than all the others.

the wealthy elite have spent decades and 100's of millions of dollars to get the tax code written in their favor. they want to keep it like it is.

Seems like the charts about prove exactly how progressive our system is. When near half of workers pay ZERO income tax or even get money back they never put in via EITC - that's pretty damn progressive.

 

[Bullseye]

With a $24,000 Standard Deduction, the tax liability for millions of people went from small to nothing.

It's hard to get lower than nothing.

Democrat Party Analysis, however, seems to achieve this near impossible goal on an ongoing basis.

Democrats don't analyze anything - the emotionalize, demonize, weaponize, and fantasize.

 

[Bullseye]

A shoutout to rich people.

They make a lot of money, and they pay a lot of taxes.

They make it possible to have many of the government benefits that we ordinary people enjoy every day.


They are the most productive of our citizens, especially those who own companies that provide employment to millions.


In general, they are more courteous and tolerant than us ordinary people.

Let's stop demonizing the rich.

Well said. Emulation the rich, don't emulate them.

 

[Bullseye]

Fair enough, but doesn't everybody already have skin in the game?

- People who temporarily receive welfare have paid taxes. Think of it as insurance, where somebody seeks to cash in because of disaster, while the company complains and looks for ways not to have to live up to obligation.

- Undocumented immigrants have paid billions in taxes.

And since the wealthy benefited most, by far, from the recent Trump-instigated Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which was falsely argued as a Bill for the Middle Class, I don't get your position. There is no envy, only observed barriers as money is going up even quicker at everybody else's expense. There is no undue punishment, especially with the wealthy owning "the swamp." And the only division comes from the idea that the wealthy are victims or some "communist" uprising who dares steal their money.

As shown above in the tax bracket charts EVERYBODY benefited from Trump's tax cuts. Please don't trot out the idiotic "the rich get 87% of the tax cut" BS; that's pure LW class warfare hooey. EVERYONE got a rate cut. IF you paid more that rate cut amounted to a larger sum - math works that way.

 

[Bullseye]

our representatives are out of touch with the reality of the middle/working class lives.

but the people have no bread!

then let them eat cake.

And yet our representatives have created an income tax bracket structure that allow nearly 50% to pay no income tax and some to even get extra money. Not perfect, but not bad.

 

[Bullseye]

No, most Americans, a majority pay little to nothing in taxes. It's far easier to appeal to people to raise taxes if they aren't affected, it is far easier to say "Vote for me, I'll make sure those RICH people lose some wealth and I'll make sure you get some of it" than it is to say "Vote for me I'll raise your taxes".

It's politics 101, when most of the people aren't affected in the pocket book you can get their votes.


Imagine if every tax raise or tax cut affected everyone equally... you might just see the budget more soundly handled. But when 50% of the nations taxes come from so few...

Right on. Instead of solutions Dems peddle jealousy, envy and class warfare. Instead of attacking the rich they should be creating programs that will help the constituents JOIN the rich, or at least help them work their way up the ladder.

 

[Bullseye]

most Americans do not receive the proper feedback as to the cost of the federal government. so they keep voting for more and more government. if ALL voters had to pay more taxes every time government grew-the appeal of more government would quickly dissipate.

Some very smart person once said "democracy dies when the people learn they have the power to vote themselves benefits". (rough paraphrase).

 

[iguanaman]

I oppose sodomy purely on the basis of Biblical condemnation of the sexual immorality.

Then you obviously must follow all these rules too. You don't eat shellfish or animals that do not chew their cud do you? I could only fit 50, there are 76 in my link.

1. Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11)

2. Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13)

3. Eating fat (3:17)

4. Eating blood (3:17)

5. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve witnessed (5:1)

6. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve been told about (5:1)

7. Touching an unclean animal (5:2)

8. Carelessly making an oath (5:4)

9. Deceiving a neighbour about something trusted to them (6:2)

10. Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3)

11. Bringing unauthorised fire before God (10:1)

12. Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6)

13. Tearing your clothes (10:6)

14. Drinking alcohol in holy places (bit of a problem for Catholics, this ‘un) (10:9)

15. Eating an animal which doesn’t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7)

16. Touching the carcass of any of the above (problems here for rugby) (11:8)

17. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12)

18. Eating – or touching the carcass of - eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19)

19. Eating – or touching the carcass of – flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22)

20. Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27)

21. Eating – or touching the carcass of – the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29)

22. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42)

23. Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4)

24. Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5)

25. Having sex with your mother (18:7)

26. Having sex with your father’s wife (18:8)

27. Having sex with your sister (18:9)

28. Having sex with your granddaughter (18:10)

29. Having sex with your half-sister (18:11)

30. Having sex with your biological aunt (18:12-13)

31. Having sex with your uncle’s wife (18:14)

32. Having sex with your daughter-in-law (18:15)

33. Having sex with your sister-in-law (18:16)

34. Having sex with a woman and also having sex with her daughter or granddaughter (bad news for Alan Clark) (18:17)

35. Marrying your wife’s sister while your wife still lives (18:18)

36. Having sex with a woman during her period (18:19)

37. Having sex with your neighbour’s wife (18:20)

38. Giving your children to be sacrificed to Molek (18:21)

39. Having sex with a man “as one does with a woman” (18:22)

40. Having sex with an animal (18:23)

41. Making idols or “metal gods” (19:4)

42. Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9)

43. Picking up grapes that have fallen in your vineyard (19:10)

44. Stealing (19:11)

45. Lying (19:11)

46. Swearing falsely on God’s name (19:12)

47. Defrauding your neighbour (19:13)

48. Holding back the wages of an employee overnight (not well observed these days) (19:13)

49. Cursing the deaf or abusing the blind (19:14)



Banned by the Bible | 76 things banned in Leviticus

 

[Bullseye]

So 90% of the wealth belonging to 5% of the population is the Govts. fault? That is the smartest thing I have heard you say....ever.

Actually, it's YOUR fault, and mine, and everyone else's. We buy stuff, we own or rent homes, go to movies or ball games, drive cars, feed our families, etc. So we pay the businesses that provide all that to us. And guess what? Someone started and grew the businesses we get those things from. And when hundreds of millions of people deal with those businesses the owners make money, lots of money.

 

[MTAtech]

Well duh, pretty hard to lower the rate for people who pay 0% to begin with.

ETA: The Balance is one of the most ironically named sites on the internet.

I understand the talking point -- that only the rich pay taxes. Well, it's not truthful. While the working poor pay no taxes -- as by design thanks to Ronald Reagan, the middle-class, do in fact, pay a lot of taxes.

Somehow President Obama was able to cut taxes on the middle class without cutting taxes on the rich.

 

[Bullseye]

well it is actually the fault or responsibility of those who own our representatives. they are the ones who have gotten our representatives to rewrite the tax code in their favor. they are also the ones who demand their bought and paid for representatives to continue to push tax cuts with trillion dollar deficits.

and it is our fault for continuing to elect those same old bought and.paid for representatives

it is our fault for.allowing the wealthy and corporations unlimited money in politics where they can buy our representatives.

IF they got our representative to write the tax code why do they pay the huge portion of taxes? Doesn't sound very smart to me.

 

[Bullseye]

The solution is to take away control of this country from the wealthy. They have been stacking the deck in their favor for decades.

Nonsense. And self-defeating. WHOEVER you give control to will become the next wealthy, powerful class - at least by your own logic.

 

[iguanaman]

Seems like the charts about prove exactly how progressive our system is. When near half of workers pay ZERO income tax or even get money back they never put in via EITC - that's pretty damn progressive.

Have you ever tried to live on $24,000 in 2018 dollars? That is $7800 in 1980 dollars. That is not progressive it is poverty.

 

[Bullseye]

That's essentially right and the reason income inequality is lower in European democracies, where it is harder for the super-rich get to interfere with the people's desire to support redistribution of income.

LOL, that's a plus for us. Redistribution of income is idiotic and outrageous.

 

[Bullseye]

Income taxes are only 1/2 of federal taxes and 1/3 of all taxes. So you really should have found the statistic for all taxes, not just 1/3 of them. Also you need to compare the percent of taxes they are paying to the percent. For example, if we find that the top 3% pay 40% of all taxes, that sounds shocking, but if they earn 35% of all income, then that is mostly a flat tax, and not shocking at all. Even better show the percent of their income they pay in taxes compared to everyone else, instead of the percent of all taxes.

I think the charts above show the percentage paid vs income is far more lopsided than that.

 

[iguanaman]

Nonsense. And self-defeating. WHOEVER you give control to will become the next wealthy, powerful class - at least by your own logic.

What is wrong with our middle class becoming more powerful?

 

[iguanaman]

Actually, it's YOUR fault, and mine, and everyone else's. We buy stuff, we own or rent homes, go to movies or ball games, drive cars, feed our families, etc. So we pay the businesses that provide all that to us. And guess what? Someone started and grew the businesses we get those things from. And when hundreds of millions of people deal with those businesses the owners make money, lots of money.

And the less they pay their employees the more money they can sock away for themselves. That is the problem. It is strangling our GDP and our middle class that makes them so rich. It is unsustainable. We cannot have one class of people with skyrocketing income while the rest stagnate. It is a path to disaster.

 

[Bullseye]

But this is a talking point that isn't true and has long become just a myth. Apparently, it is true that more than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax. But this is just a thread of the tax blanket...



Look: Given how the wealthy own Washington D.C. and governments across the nation as Democrats and Republicans scramble about looking for donations to keep their jobs and thus then owing favor to their benefactor's economic designs, it makes no sense to declare that Democrats just want to steal the money from the wealthy, given that they too receive money from the wealthy to launch their campaigns. This is the conflict within the talking point (or myth).

This is not politics 101. This is talking point 101, pushed by the wealthy to create a mood of "class warfare," of which they need bottom defenders, and in which doesn't really exist. There is no capitalism vs. communism at play in the U.S. Just about everybody pays taxes and just about everybody complains about it. And there is no way around the fiasco of introducing a massive tax-cut Bill in late 2017 (in which much of the wealthy was insulated with permanent cuts), along side a massive increase in government spending in early 2018! The everyday American is going to have face this eventually.

Yes, payroll taxes are theoretically regressive because there's a max income ceiling; somewhere around $120,000. HOWEVER that income is near the top 85-90% level so the regression is mild. But, let's look at the purpose of that tax - to fund Social Security and Medicare. Do you object to people contributing to their own retirement and healthcare when elderly?

 

[iguanaman]

LOL, that's a plus for us. Redistribution of income is idiotic and outrageous.

Except when it is being redistributed to the top 1% then it is just good govt. Right?

 

[Bullseye]

Except when it is being redistributed to the top 1% then it is just good govt. Right?

Moot point it's not.

 

[MTAtech]

Actually, he lower it on anybody who actually PAYS income tax (and boosted EITC for those that don't) and as expected CBO reported earlier this month that revenues from personal income tax was up 4%.

Lowered it sure... Average Joe gets peanuts; rich guy gets fillet mignon. A household earning $1 million or more would get an average cut of $69,660, an income bump of 3.3 percent. Compare that with the a tax cut of $870, or 1.6 percent, for the average household earning $50,000 to $75,000.