Toddler gunman

[TurtleDude]

I wonder if some college with a half decent football team might offer degrees in "Firearms" ?

Colorado School of Trades and several other schools have great gun-smithing programs. I always heard CS of Trades was the best. When I shot collegiately, Trinidad college (I don't know where it was) had a gun smithing program ( and a skeet and trap team)

 

[Rucker61]

View attachment 67368793​

Given that the police have no Constitutional obligation to protect anyone, the police shouldn't be asking us to give up our rights and our ability to protect ourselves to make them feel safer.

 

[TurtleDude]

Given that the police have no Constitutional obligation to protect anyone, the police shouldn't be asking us to give up our rights and our ability to protect ourselves to make them feel safer.

when the police say citizens should give up rights to make the jobs of the police easier, it is time to fire the police who say that. We could make things much easier for them if we did the following:

1) get rid of the right to counsel: Gideon
2) the fourth amendment
3) presumption of innocence
4) MIranda
and several other constitutional rights that make it tougher on the state to strip citizens of freedom.

That Sheriff is pretty much a joke here in SW Ohio BTW

 

[soylentgreen]

Have you never heard of catch-and-release ?

Yes, I have also heard of sitting there all day and not catching a thing.

If there were no guns, there would be no problem
So yes, they are.

Part in bold is not true. On any level.
There are guns. Not, if there were no guns. Turtle has demonstrated he does not know what pandora's box means, do you?
There will always be a problem of intent to kill. It's not the gun that is needed to kill it is a reason needed to kill.

Symbols can be futile, or they can be very powerful (or something in between).

The most ancient of symbols dates back over a million years. That of a carving of a fat woman.
Look how far and fast emoji's have come as a language in there own right.
The word you left out in your description of symbols was influential.

 

[Rich2018]

Colorado School of Trades and several other schools have great gun-smithing programs. I always heard CS of Trades was the best. When I shot collegiately, Trinidad college (I don't know where it was) had a gun smithing program ( and a skeet and trap team)

There's money to be made in restoring old firearms.

 

[TurtleDude]

There's money to be made in restoring old firearms.

1) restoring old firearms
2) modifying current firearms to be more competitive
3) fixing stuff out of warranty

 

[Rich2018]

Yes, I have also heard of sitting there all day and not catching a thing.

That was probably me.

...Turtle has demonstrated he does not know what pandora's box means, do you?

Pandora was a Greek mythological figure who was made custodian of a box containing all the evils in the world
However she could not resist looking inside and opened it to do so
As she did, she inadvertently let all the evils trapped inside escape. When they had all escaped the only thing left inside was hope

I assume you use this analogically, to describe the opening of gun laws in order to arm the law abiding, inadvertently let out millions o guns for criminals to arm themselves with ?

There will always be a problem of intent to kill. It's not the gun that is needed to kill it is a reason needed to kill.

The answer is not to try and reduce demand for guns, but to reduce supply.

The word you left out in your description of symbols was influential.

That would be covered by "something in between".

 

[Rich2018]

1) restoring old firearms
2) modifying current firearms to be more competitive
3) fixing stuff out of warranty

All worthy

But you missed, making current guns more lethal
eg: The Wilson upgrades to a Remington pump action.

 

[TurtleDude]

All worthy

But you missed, making current guns more lethal
eg: The Wilson upgrades to a Remington pump action.

that doesn't make them more "lethal"

 

[Rich2018]

that doesn't make them more "lethal"

Please explain why enhanced operation doesn't make a weapons system more lethal

Would you say the M16A2 is more lethal than the A1 ?

 

[TurtleDude]

Please explain why enhanced operation doesn't make a weapons system more lethal

Would you say the M16A2 is more lethal than the A1 ?

what makes a weapon more lethal Rich? You never ever seem to understand environment. In a crowded elevator, a flame thrower or a 50 Caliber BMG is not very lethal since they cannot be deployed very well. A small handgun is extremely lethal. If I am 600m away from someone and they have a 50 round SMG and I have a bolt action 6.5 Creedmore sniper rifle, my weapon is FAR more lethal than a UZI.

 

[Rich2018]

what makes a weapon more lethal Rich? You never ever seem to understand environment. In a crowded elevator, a flame thrower or a 50 Caliber BMG is not very lethal since they cannot be deployed very well. A small handgun is extremely lethal. If I am 600m away from someone and they have a 50 round SMG and I have a bolt action 6.5 Creedmore sniper rifle, my weapon is FAR more lethal than a UZI.

Firing faster, further, more accurately

A firearm that's enhanced to do any of these through specific design changes or just improvements in making operation of it easier, will make it more lethal.

You say "a small handgun is extremely lethal" and it is. But increase it's range, rate of fire, speed of re-loading, ease of operation, and it becomes more lethal yet.

 

[TurtleDude]

Firing faster, further, more accurately

A firearm that's enhanced to do any of these through specific design changes or just improvements in making operation of it easier, will make it more lethal.

You say "a small handgun is extremely lethal" and it is. But increase it's range, rate of fire, speed of re-loading, ease of operation, and it becomes more lethal yet.

and your point is?

 

[soylentgreen]

That was probably me.



Pandora was a Greek mythological figure who was made custodian of a box containing all the evils in the world
However she could not resist looking inside and opened it to do so
As she did, she inadvertently let all the evils trapped inside escape. When they had all escaped the only thing left inside was hope

I assume you use this analogically, to describe the opening of gun laws in order to arm the law abiding, inadvertently let out millions o guns for criminals to arm themselves with ?







That would be covered by "something in between".

Yes, guns exist and we need to live with them not try and magically make them all disappear.

The answer is not to try and reduce demand for guns, but to reduce supply.

Then you have the trouble of the government telling you what you can and cannot buy. Do we need to encourage nannyism in our governments, I do not think so.
It will just add fire to the propaganda of the pro gun crowd. A no win situation there.

The better way would be to fight the propaganda and expose these pro gun crowd for the cowards with guns that they are. Reduce the effectiveness of their bullshit propaganda and the need for a gun is reduced in the very area we want gun reduction. In the hands of idiots who believe they have a right to kill with a gun.

 

[soylentgreen]

what makes a weapon more lethal Rich? You never ever seem to understand environment. In a crowded elevator, a flame thrower or a 50 Caliber BMG is not very lethal since they cannot be deployed very well. A small handgun is extremely lethal. If I am 600m away from someone and they have a 50 round SMG and I have a bolt action 6.5 Creedmore sniper rifle, my weapon is FAR more lethal than a UZI.

Intent makes it lethal. Even a hand grenade is lethal in a crowded elevator if the intent is to be a martyr for the cause.

And when the intent of the average pro gun person is to behave stupidly with a gun then that's when a child gets to kill their mother.

 

[RF667799]

Yes, guns exist and we need to live with them not try and magically make them all disappear.


Then you have the trouble of the government telling you what you can and cannot buy. Do we need to encourage nannyism in our governments, I do not think so.
It will just add fire to the propaganda of the pro gun crowd. A no win situation there.

The better way would be to fight the propaganda and expose these pro gun crowd for the cowards with guns that they are. Reduce the effectiveness of their bullshit propaganda and the need for a gun is reduced in the very area we want gun reduction. In the hands of idiots who believe they have a right to kill with a gun.

Interesting that you think the best political or practical course to follow in your ideological pursuits, is to denigrate and attempt to marginalize your opposition.

 

[soylentgreen]

Interesting that you think the best political or practical course to follow in your ideological pursuits, is to denigrate and attempt to marginalize your opposition.

When the pro gun crowd is so full of crap it needs to be told so.

 

[RF667799]

When the pro gun crowd is so full of crap it needs to be told so.

Interesting that you didn't disagree with my assessment of your political strategy.

 

[soylentgreen]

Interesting that you didn't disagree with my assessment of your political strategy.

I just ignored it as your usual blathering, nothing more.

 

[RF667799]

I just ignored it as your usual blathering, nothing more.

You didn't ignore it. You responded to it, and tried to justify your "strategy" with more denigration. So you affirmed my assessment.

 

[TurtleDude]

Intent makes it lethal. Even a hand grenade is lethal in a crowded elevator if the intent is to be a martyr for the cause.

And when the intent of the average pro gun person is to behave stupidly with a gun then that's when a child gets to kill their mother.

what is your fixation with pro gun person behaving stupidly? I bet pro gun advocates are far less liable to do that than many gun owners who are not really "pro gun"

 

[Rich2018]

and your point is?

An enhanced firearm is more lethal.

 

[TurtleDude]

An enhanced firearm is more lethal.

that's based on your extensive experience or what someone told you to say?
I noted I have a ton of 45 pistols. I have the military Colt my Grandfather carried in WWI
I have a 2500 dollar Wilson competition model. They shoot the same cartridge and the same magazine can be used in either. The Wilson is certainly "enhanced" and I could-when I was younger, shoot 3" groups at 50M with it. I doubt I could ever do that with the Colt. But at typical handgun ranges, I can shoot the old colt as fast as the Wilson and get center of chest hits just as easily.

 

[Threegoofs]

that's based on your extensive experience or what someone told you to say?
I noted I have a ton of 45 pistols. I have the military Colt my Grandfather carried in WWI
I have a 2500 dollar Wilson competition model. They shoot the same cartridge and the same magazine can be used in either. The Wilson is certainly "enhanced" and I could-when I was younger, shoot 3" groups at 50M with it. I doubt I could ever do that with the Colt. But at typical handgun ranges, I can shoot the old colt as fast as the Wilson and get center of chest hits just as easily.

“chest hits”.

So much for pretending that guns aren’t meant to shoot people.

 

[Rich2018]

Yes, guns exist and we need to live with them not try and magically make them all disappear.

No gun control promises to eradicate guns from society...but this is a far cry from throwing up your hands, declaring the task impossible and abandoning gun control.

Then you have the trouble of the government telling you what you can and cannot buy. Do we need to encourage nannyism in our governments, I do not think so.
It will just add fire to the propaganda of the pro gun crowd. A no win situation there.

Why is this a problem ?
Do we not accept the role of government to pass laws telling what we can do and can't ?

The better way would be to fight the propaganda and expose these pro gun crowd for the cowards with guns that they are. Reduce the effectiveness of their bullshit propaganda and the need for a gun is reduced in the very area we want gun reduction. In the hands of idiots who believe they have a right to kill with a gun.

Please talk me through this
There ***IS*** no need to own guns...the pro-gun lobby's propaganda is in response to rising gun control sentiments in government
You are not going to reduce gun ownership levels through persuasion and it's the height of madness to think you can.