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To what extent to you support the 1st and 2nd amendment?

What extent do you support these rights?


  • Total voters
    70

jamesrage

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What are your thoughts on freedom of speech and the right to bear arms?


As far as the right to own firearms as long as you are a law abiding citizen with no felonies and not insane you be able to own firearms with out any restrictions.

As far as free speech you should not be allowed to root for the enemy,make propaganda for the enemy,incite murder,incite treason,sell/give secrets to other countries,burning the US flag in a disrespectful manner and yelling "fire" in a crowed movie theater when there is no fire.I do not beleave free speech gives one the right to slander someone or defame their character,in other words if you get sued for these things then you do not have no protection.
 
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TurtleDude

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jamesrage said:
What are your thoughts on freedom of speech and the right to bear arms?
your choices are flawed IMHO. I am a firm believer that the congress has not the power to restrict firearms but the states do to some extent-such as preventing children from carrying concealed weapons or felons being armed or people in asylums having access to weapons. My attitude though is that possession or lawful use of weapons should not be restricted as to small arms. Banning the shooting of a machine gun on the streets of NYC is fine-owning a machine gun on the upper east side should be fine as well

as to free speech, you should be able to say what you want unless it objectively harms others-
 

TurtleDude

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jamesrage said:
The choices are no restrictions,some restrictions or banned.This poll and this thread is what you the individual supports.

I don't think anyone supports absolutely no restrictions but I chose that because I noted that some restrictions go to the individual rather than the weapon

Personally, anything civilian law enforcement can own or the standard infantry rifle should be permitted of other civilians. crew served weapons or ordnance (rockets, grenades, cannon) No
 

jamesrage

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TurtleDude said:
I don't think anyone supports absolutely no restrictions but I chose that because I noted that some restrictions go to the individual rather than the weapon
I am wondering who supports a total ban on either one.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Twould be better if this was two polls, not one...

What's "with out any restricitons" mean? No, a person with a history of armed robbery, spousal abuse, schizophrenia, and a few other things that indicate either a prediliction to violence or mental instability should be prevented from possessing firearms. Duh.

And one should be held liable for the consequences of shouting "I hates niggas" at a Puff Daddy concert.

So of course "some restritions" that are both reasonable and practical are required.
 

vergiss

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jamesrage said:
As far as the right to own firearms as long as you are a law abiding citizen with no felonies and not insane you be able to own firearms with out any restrictions..
And what's your definition of "insane"? How do you decide someone's "insane" enough to be banned from gun ownership?

jamesrage said:
burning the US flag in a disrespectful manner
As opposed to burning the flag in a respectful manner?
 

jamesrage

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vergiss said:
And what's your definition of "insane"? How do you decide someone's "insane" enough to be banned from gun ownership?

If they have a phycologigal history of being schizo and being mental unstability


As opposed to burning the flag in a respectful manner?

http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=cmty.leveld&did=2477

Flag Disposal

Suggested Procedures for Disposing of a Faded, Worn Flag

1. The flag should be folded in its customary manner.
2. It is important that the fire be fairly large and of sufficient intensity to ensure complete burning of the flag.
3. Place the flag on the fire.
4. The individual(s) can come to attention, salute the flag, recite the Pledge of Allegiance and have a brief period of silent reflection.
5. After the flag is completely consumed, the fire should then be safely extinguished and the ashes buried.
6. Please make sure you are conforming to local/state fire codes or ordinances.
 

TurtleDude

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vergiss said:
And what's your definition of "insane"? How do you decide someone's "insane" enough to be banned from gun ownership?
that's easy, if you have been ADJUDICATED by a competent court of being mentally infirm than that is the line
 

vergiss

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jamesrage said:
If they have a phycologigal history of being schizo and being mental unstability
Schizo? As in schizophrenic? Hundreds of thousands of treated schizophrenics lead average, functional lives. You wish to interfere with their supposed right to firearm ownership purely because of a disease which they had the misfortune of inheriting, and which actually makes them no more of a danger to others than the average person?

As for mental instability - what mental instability? Anyone whose ever been in a psychiatric facility? Anyone with bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety or PTSD? You do know that 1 person in 4 suffers from a mental disorder at some point in their life, right? What about dementia and senility brought by from old age/genetic misfortune, eg Alzheimers? Looks like poor ol' Charlton Heston can't own a gun! :lol:
 

jamesrage

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vergiss said:
Schizo? As in schizophrenic? Hundreds of thousands of treated schizophrenics lead average, functional lives. You wish to interfere with their supposed right to firearm ownership purely because of a disease which they had the misfortune of inheriting, and which actually makes them no more of a danger to others than the average person?

As for mental instability - what mental instability? Anyone whose ever been in a psychiatric facility? Anyone with bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety or PTSD? You do know that 1 person in 4 suffers from a mental disorder at some point in their life, right? What about dementia and senility brought by from old age/genetic misfortune, eg Alzheimers? Looks like poor ol' Charlton Heston can't own a gun! :lol:

So are you trying to argue that insane people should be allowed the right own guns?Perhaps we can find out where you live, move a clinacally insane person next door to you and give this clinacally insane person a AN/PAQ-4C, night vision and a AR-15 and see if you change your mind about insane people owning firearms.
 

M14 Shooter

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jamesrage said:
As far as the right to own firearms as long as you are a law abiding citizen with no felonies and not insane you be able to own firearms with out any restrictions.
I am in absolute agreement with the above statement.

That said, I fully support any gun control law that will:
-Guarantee criminals will not get guns
-Does not infringe on my right to arms in any way.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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jamesrage said:
Flag Disposal

Suggested Procedures for Disposing of a Faded, Worn Flag

1. The flag should be folded in its customary manner.
2. It is important that the fire be fairly large and of sufficient intensity to ensure complete burning of the flag.
3. Place the flag on the fire.
4. The individual(s) can come to attention, salute the flag, recite the Pledge of Allegiance and have a brief period of silent reflection.
5. After the flag is completely consumed, the fire should then be safely extinguished and the ashes buried.
6. Please make sure you are conforming to local/state fire codes or ordinances.
Totally off topic: The Girl Scouts (and probably the BS, too.) dismember the flag and burn the stripes individually, calling out the colony each represents, then burn the field of stars.

Back to the topic:

"Insane" should mean having been diagnosed as having specific mental disorders such as schizophrenia and paranoia. I won't attempt a whole list, since I'm not a shrink.

The problem, of course, is that such diagnoses are private and covered by doctor/patient privilege and not accessible to state review for gun license checks. Even if it were available to the state, fat beer drinking Bubba at the local bait and gun shop has to have access to it for it to be useful. That sounds really entertaining, I must say.
 

vergiss

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jamesrage said:
So are you trying to argue that insane people should be allowed the right own guns?Perhaps we can find out where you live, move a clinacally insane person next door to you and give this clinacally insane person a AN/PAQ-4C, night vision and a AR-15 and see if you change your mind about insane people owning firearms.
Good luck trying, I live in a country where such firearms are illegal. :lol:

What are you trying to argue? That everyone who's suffered from a mental illness at some point in their lifetime is insane and therefore a second-class citizen? Sounds like someone who has no idea what he's on about.
 

jamesrage

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vergiss said:
What are you trying to argue? That everyone who's suffered from a mental illness at some point in their lifetime is insane and therefore a second-class citizen?

If a certian amount of time has passed and the indivudal has been checked out and verified that he or she has not suffered any mental illness in while then there might not be no reason to restrict his right to bear arms.

Good luck trying, I live in a country where such firearms are illegal.
If you live in the Us a AR-15 is perfectly legal.The AN/PAQ-4C is not a weapon,it is a laser site that can only be seen with night vision goggles.
 

vergiss

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jamesrage said:
If a certian amount of time has passed and the indivudal has been checked out and verified that he or she has not suffered any mental illness in while then there might not be no reason to restrict his right to bear arms.
Oh? And why does a person who's had depression or who suffers from a chronic mental disorder such as bipolar or post-traumatic stress disorder deserve less of a right to defend themself than you, especially considering that the mentally unwell are 2.5 times more likely to be victims of violence than other members of society (http://www.cmha.ca/bins/content_page.asp?cid=3-108&lang=1)? Why do you deserve more rights than them, just because of a disease they cannot help? Even a person with schizophrenia is approximately 2,000 times more likely to commit suicide than they are to harm someone else (http://www.betterhealthchannel.com....ages/Mental_illness_and_violence?OpenDocument)

jamesrage said:
If you live in the Us a AR-15 is perfectly legal.The AN/PAQ-4C is not a weapon,it is a laser site that can only be seen with night vision goggles.
:roll: I don't live in the US. Read my post. You do know there are other countries on the Earth, right?
 
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Scarecrow Akhbar

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jamesrage said:
If a certian amount of time has passed and the indivudal has been checked out and verified that he or she has not suffered any mental illness in while then there might not be no reason to restrict his right to bear arms.
Don't be silly. He'd need a continually renewed certificate of stability from his doctor to be trusted. Want to create a brand new bureaucracy just to check if people actually take their pills?
 

TurtleDude

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vergiss said:
Good luck trying, I live in a country where such firearms are illegal. :lol: .

I see you were the only named poster who is in favor of banning firearms

You sound like Aesop's fox:roll:
 

vergiss

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TurtleDude said:
I see you were the only named poster who is in favor of banning firearms

You sound like Aesop's fox:roll:
You wish. I meant to click the option above it. *pat*
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Of course we're forgetting the other half of the poll.

Suppose the New York Times received a secret government document stating that Osama bin Laden was not only living in luxury in suburban Islamabad but that next Thursday the United States was going to raid the house and take bin Laden into custody.

Should they not face consequences for publishing this story before the raid?
 

Vandeervecken

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vergiss said:
And what's your definition of "insane"? How do you decide someone's "insane" enough to be banned from gun ownership?
A legal court declaration of mental incompetence would be the line in my eyes.


vergiss said:
As opposed to burning the flag in a respectful manner?
I've helped burn more than 400 US Flags, every one of them in a respectful manner.

However i also think that burning the flag in protest must be allowed. A flag you cannot burn in protest is unworthy of respect in the first place.
 

George_Washington

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I support both amendments pretty thoroughly but I probably support freedom of speech a little less. This is because every brain dead idiot out there thinks he can do whatever he wants and then say it's his freedom of speech. Alexander Hamilton had made some very good arguments about including freedom of speech in the Bill of Rights and in a sense, at least, I think he was on the right track.
 

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vergiss said:
You wish. I meant to click the option above it. *pat*
No, I checked, you voted to ban all firearms.

What country are you from out of curiosity? I've tried twice to read your profile but both times it crashed my computer for some reason.
 

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Of course we're forgetting the other half of the poll.

Suppose the New York Times received a secret government document stating that Osama bin Laden was not only living in luxury in suburban Islamabad but that next Thursday the United States was going to raid the house and take bin Laden into custody.

Should they not face consequences for publishing this story before the raid?
No, they should not.
 

jamesrage

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Of course we're forgetting the other half of the poll.

Suppose the New York Times received a secret government document stating that Osama bin Laden was not only living in luxury in suburban Islamabad but that next Thursday the United States was going to raid the house and take bin Laden into custody.

Should they not face consequences for publishing this story before the raid?

Those reporters who would report such a thing should fry for treason as much the person who leeked the info to them.Those reporters and everyone involved in lettting that story reach the general public should be made examples out of by being executed and the company permanatly put out of business.
 
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