To the extent abortion should be allowed, and conditions that should be met

[yukita]

I'd just like to see what other people have to say.

Where do US states stand on abortion bans as new Trump era dawns? | Context by TRF

Abortion rights groups fear Donald Trump's second presidential term will lead to more

www.context.news

There is of course more nuance between pro-life and pro-choice.

Personally, I think no abortion should take place past 120 days, unless it's to save the mother's life. At 120 days, it's practically having a soul of its own without a doubt, and still pregnancy is still a very significant and should be treated as something with respect. The mother's life is still significant

Before, I think in situations of rape, mental & physical instability, and some other extreme cases.

And even earlier, around the first 12 weeks, reasoning such as finical struggles, etc, are questionable for me.

I also think an abortion shouldn't be administered without a medical report filed by 2 or more credible (female) physicians.

 

[mrjurrs]

I'd just like to see what other people have to say.

Where do US states stand on abortion bans as new Trump era dawns? | Context by TRF

Abortion rights groups fear Donald Trump's second presidential term will lead to more

www.context.news

There is of course more nuance between pro-life and pro-choice.

Personally, I think no abortion should take place past 120 days, unless it's to save the mother's life. At 120 days, it's practically having a soul of its own without a doubt, and still pregnancy is still a very significant and should be treated as something with respect. The mother's life is still significant

Before, I think in situations of rape, mental & physical instability, and some other extreme cases.

And even earlier, around the first 12 weeks, reasoning such as finical struggles, etc, are questionable for me.

I also think an abortion shouldn't be administered without a medical report filed by 2 or more credible (female) physicians.

There is only one standard I would accept for abortions. If the person carrying the fetus wants to terminate it...at any time.

 

[yukita]

There is only one standard I would accept for abortions. If the person carrying the fetus wants to terminate it...at any time.

Fair enough, why?

 

[mrjurrs]

Fair enough, why?

Because I believe in personal autonomy. Can you name one law in America that restricts what a male does with his body?

Now it's my turn. You're gonna need a source for that 'soul' claim.

 

[yukita]

Because I believe in personal autonomy. Can you name one law in America that restricts what a male does with his body?

Now it's my turn. You're gonna need a source for that 'soul' claim.

There isn't. Heck, men are encouraged to sleep around and shift all blame onto women, when in reality it's just as bad when he partakes in such things.

 

[Demon]

I also think an abortion shouldn't be administered without a medical report filed by 2 or more credible (female) physicians

Expand on this please......does this idea include abortions within your allowed 120 days? And what is the need for medical reports?

 

[yukita]

Expand on this please......does this idea include abortions within your allowed 120 days? And what is the need for medical reports?

I personally believe that abortion past 120 days is unjustifiable unless the mother's life is at an undeniable risk. I also do think there should be filed reports for abortion to keep history for medical track records. The process should be quick and not determined by some state, but proscribed by a physician of choice, preferably another woman.

 

[Demon]

I personally believe that abortion past 120 days is unjustifiable unless the mother's life is at an undeniable risk. I also do think there should be filed reports for abortion to keep history for medical track records. The process should be quick and not determined by some state, but proscribed by a physician of choice, preferably another woman.

Why do you want women's abortions tracked?

 

[Ginger Ale]

I think America should trust women for once in its life. We're your sisters and your mothers. There's no proof women run around in heat using abortion as their method of birth control. Reminds me of women suffrage movements when committees of men sat around deciding if women are smart enough to vote.
Now there's a heard of mostly male committees deciding our healthcare and outcomes. It's ****ed up.

I think women will be deciding for themselves in Roevember.

 

[soylentgreen]

I'd just like to see what other people have to say.

Where do US states stand on abortion bans as new Trump era dawns? | Context by TRF

Abortion rights groups fear Donald Trump's second presidential term will lead to more

www.context.news

There is of course more nuance between pro-life and pro-choice.

Personally, I think no abortion should take place past 120 days, unless it's to save the mother's life. At 120 days, it's practically having a soul of its own without a doubt, and still pregnancy is still a very significant and should be treated as something with respect. The mother's life is still significant

Before, I think in situations of rape, mental & physical instability, and some other extreme cases.

A soul??? Should we really be basing science on some primitive superstition?
That stage of 120 days is just about what is called late term pregnancy. It already is the case that such abortions at that stage are because of problems that effect the health of the mother / baby. No one gets an abortion at that stage just because of a whim.

And even earlier, around the first 12 weeks, reasoning such as finical struggles, etc, are questionable for me.

So basically the rights of a fetus to survive out weighs the right of a woman to make her own decisions about her body and her life.

I also think an abortion shouldn't be administered without a medical report filed by 2 or more credible (female) physicians.

Apart from making women jump through hoops to get a medical procedure there is no sense to this. And why you think female doctors would be any better than a male doctor is curious. Again it is a matter of science not whether they can emotionally relate.

 

[Demon]

A soul??? Should we really be basing science on some primitive superstition?
That stage of 120 days is just about what is called late term pregnancy. It already is the case that such abortions at that stage are because of problems that effect the health of the mother / baby. No one gets an abortion at that stage just because of a whim.


So basically the rights of a fetus to survive out weighs the right of a woman to make her own decisions about her body and her life.


Apart from making women jump through hoops to get a medical procedure there is no sense to this. And why you think female doctors would be any better than a male doctor is curious. Again it is a matter of science not whether they can emotionally relate.

Yeah, the soul thing stood out to me as problematic.

 

[yukita]

Why do you want women's abortions tracked?

For the same reason why other surgical operations are tracked, etc. That way, if something goes wrong, not just the medical report with information of who performed the abortion and what methods were used can help best decide for future interventions. As some abortion operations can result in physical injury, or some medications for such can still bring technical difficultly. Even further, I also think a medical report for filing an abortion should constitute for a mandatory time period to rest from work, or even be eligible for mandatory therapy. As abortion is still a very traumatic experience for women in general.

However, since it's personal information, it should stay confidential and never accessible for someone who doesn't have the personal permission like a doctor, etc.

 

[Demon]

For the same reason why other surgical operations are tracked, etc. That way, if something goes wrong, not just the medical report with information of who performed the abortion and what methods were used can help best decide for future interventions. As some abortion operations can result in physical injury, or some medications for such can still bring technical difficultly. Even further, I also think a medical report for filing an abortion should constitute for a mandatory time period to rest from work, or even be eligible for mandatory therapy. As abortion is still a very traumatic experience for women in general.

However, since it's personal information, it should stay confidential and never accessible for someone who doesn't have the personal permission like a doctor, etc.

Ok...I just had rotator cuff surgery in March. Other than my ortho doc's records, should someone else have a record of that? I'm sure there could be complications down the line...

 

[yukita]

A soul??? Should we really be basing science on some primitive superstition?
That stage of 120 days is just about what is called late term pregnancy. It already is the case that such abortions at that stage are because of problems that effect the health of the mother / baby. No one gets an abortion at that stage just because of a whim.


So basically the rights of a fetus to survive out weighs the right of a woman to make her own decisions about her body and her life.


Apart from making women jump through hoops to get a medical procedure there is no sense to this. And why you think female doctors would be any better than a male doctor is curious. Again it is a matter of science not whether they can emotionally relate.

A baby is highly active around 19 weeks, likely very active. Maybe it's personal reasoning others won't understand.

There still isn't much scientific study on the phases of pregnancy and the ability of a fetus to feel or respond.

For female doctors, I don't think men make good doctors for women in general. Some female doctors are dismissive, but most of them actually understand how other women feel and understand the female body more. Especially coming from my personal experiences with male doctors, which I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking on.

 

[yukita]

Ok...I just had rotator cuff surgery in March. Other than my ortho doc's records, should someone else have a record of that? I'm sure there could be complications down the line...

No, it should stay between the woman and physician/doctor, which can be shared to the health insurance company as they are involved too.

 

[yukita]

Yeah, the soul thing stood out to me as problematic.

Fair enough

 

[yukita]

I think America should trust women for once in its life. We're your sisters and your mothers. There's no proof women run around in heat using abortion as their method of birth control. Reminds me of women suffrage movements when committees of men sat around deciding if women are smart enough to vote.
Now there's a heard of mostly male committees deciding our healthcare and outcomes. It's ****ed up.

I think women will be deciding for themselves in Roevember.

View attachment 67509679

Obviously, since most of the abortions are at around 6-8 weeks

 

[Demon]

No, it should stay between the woman and physician/doctor, which can be shared to the health insurance company as they are involved too.

I'm not sure to what extent insurance covers abortion so unless they do, that info shouldn't be between anyone but the woman and her doctor - not doctors. There is no need to involve a second doctor. I could have gotten a second opinion on my surgery, but there is no need to require one.

 

[yukita]

I'm not sure to what extent insurance covers abortion so unless they do, that info shouldn't be between anyone but the woman and her doctor - not doctors. There is no need to involve a second doctor. I could have gotten a second opinion on my surgery, but there is no need to require one.

That's a good one as well. Fair enough

 

[Jessie C]

I'm curious about how you arrive at the 120 day mark. That's roughly 17 weeks; or 4 months.

You have no way of knowing if a fetus who cannot survive outside of the womb has a soul; no one does.

The most disturbing part of your post is the fact that you think there should be medical reports filed by Physicians. For what purpose?

You've chosen a wierd stance on abortion. Are you aware that 65% of abortions are done with medication?

Get off the fence, you're either pro abortion or you're not, you can't be both.

 

[soylentgreen]

A baby is highly active around 19 weeks, likely very active. Maybe it's personal reasoning others won't understand.

There still isn't much scientific study on the phases of pregnancy and the ability of a fetus to feel or respond.

For female doctors, I don't think men make good doctors for women in general. Some female doctors are dismissive, but most of them actually understand how other women feel and understand the female body more. Especially coming from my personal experiences with male doctors, which I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking on.

Doctors are limited by their own professional ethics which they can pay high penalties for if they break. Doctors are unlikely to perform an abortion at 18 weeks merely because of a whim on the part of the woman. They would require a proven medical condition that endangers the life of the mother or child.
As for whether the doctor is male or female that should surely be a decision for the patient to make as to which they feel comfortable with rather than some rule that supposes a woman is more likely to be in tune with another female which kind of sounds a bit sexist.
But having two doctors sign off on an abortion is nothing more than making women jump through hoops of legal nonsense just to get a medical procedure.

 

[yukita]

Get off the fence, you're either pro abortion or you're not, you can't be both.

Or maybe I can have more nuance for both sides of reasoning and form my own opinion than stick to a black and white way of thinking when the world is full of colors and shades?

 

[CaughtInThe]

If life begins at conception then any person, conservative or not, that agrees with some abortion is agreeing to some murder.

 

[mrjurrs]

I personally believe that abortion past 120 days is unjustifiable unless the mother's life is at an undeniable risk. I also do think there should be filed reports for abortion to keep history for medical track records. The process should be quick and not determined by some state, but proscribed by a physician of choice, preferably another woman.

Why do you care what others decide for themselves?

 

[yukita]

Doctors are limited by their own professional ethics which they can pay high penalties for if they break. Doctors are unlikely to perform an abortion at 18 weeks merely because of a whim on the part of the woman. They would require a proven medical condition that endangers the life of the mother or child.
As for whether the doctor is male or female that should surely be a decision for the patient to make as to which they feel comfortable with rather than some rule that supposes a woman is more likely to be in tune with another female which kind of sounds a bit sexist.
But having two doctors sign off on an abortion is nothing more than making women jump through hoops of legal nonsense just to get a medical procedure.

Well, I think it's necessary when I also value the life of an unborn child, as long as it doesn't threaten the mother's life past a certain point.

However to prevent any possible fabricated medical report, of course past 120 days, it would be required for it to be signed off, etc.

Maybe my own bias towards people having the same gendered doctor is there, it's tied to other beliefs I hold that are out of topic.