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To the Democrats Iraq is all partisan politics

Navy Pride

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To the Democrats Iraq is all about partisan politics...Winning there has nothing to do with it..........The only thing important is winning in the 2006 mid term elections.......Nothing can prove that more then this article.......

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,178324,00.html


Saturday, December 10, 2005

Lieberman's Iraq Views Rankle Some Democrats


Lieberman's pro-war views may be winning him praise from a grateful White House, but some Democratic colleagues see him as undercutting their party's efforts to wrest control of Congress from the GOP next fall.

"He's doing damage to the ability of Democrats to wage a national campaign," said Ken Dautrich, a University of Connecticut public policy professor. "It's Lieberman being Lieberman. And it's frustrating for people trying to put a Democratic strategy together."

Sensing political vulnerability in Bush's handling of Iraq, Democrats are anxious to craft a compelling anti-war theme uniting the party for the pivotal midterm congressional elections.

Democrats hope a surging anti-war tide in 2006 can help them shatter the GOP's 12-year lock on the House and win back the Senate for the first time since 2001.

"It's not a tidal wave now, but the ingredients are starting to fall into place," said veteran Democratic strategist Tad Devine.
 

headforspace

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The Iraq war is a partisan issue to both parties. It is an issue for everyone who is not making a lot of money off of it, unless it is to keep power where they think it should be. This is the nature of politics, and if you haven't figured that out by now, it may be too late for you.
 

Billo_Really

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Didn't they just have a vote that was like 407-3 in favor of keeping troops there? I don't think 3 votes constitutes partisan politics. It just means they both suck!
 

Caine

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Im a Democrat and to me Iraq was.......

Two deployments of 16 months that was the largest waste of time in my entire life.

The most ignorant reason for me to be in Harms Way.


Say what you want, but the fact that Saddam "mass murdered" people in his own country before I was ever born does not constitute a reason to send my ass to another country in harms way... TWICE...
There were no WMDs......If there were, I would think differently....
There were no ties to terrorism.. until after we showed up that is......If there were before hand.... I would think differently.

Why do you think the ground assualt was easier than expected? Because there were no terrorists, only Baath Party loyalists and the Fedayeen, and there were not many of them. It wasn't until many many months of being in country did we start discovering NEW enemies that we didn't have many months before. These were the groups of "terrorists" or insurgents that our long lasting occupation created, that and a few terrorists decided to get in on some action, cause its easier to kill an American "infidel" when they are already on your side of the globe.
 

headforspace

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First, are you trying to prove that Iraq is a partisan issue? Two words: ****ING DUH!!! So yes, the democrats are partisan on the war, so are the republicans, fantastic bit of muckraking you've done right there.
****ing duh? I know its obvious, but obviously some people have forgot the war is more than just about politics. I can't help that, only state something they should have remembered in the first place.
 

scottyz

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Funny that you accuse democrats of making it a partisan issue while you simultaneously make it a partisan issue yourself.
 

headforspace

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scottyz said:
Funny that you accuse democrats of making it a partisan issue while you simultaneously make it a partisan issue yourself.
When I say both (all) parties are guilty of making it a partisan issue, that is just my opinion. And having an opinion does not always mean partisan. It just means you disagree with me.
 

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Navy Pride said:
To the Democrats Iraq is all about partisan politics...Winning there has nothing to do with it..........The only thing important is winning in the 2006 mid term elections.......Nothing can prove that more then this article.......

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,178324,00.html

...
A fair and balanced post relying upon a fair and balanced news source.
 

mesue

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Caine said:
Im a Democrat and to me Iraq was.......

Two deployments of 16 months that was the largest waste of time in my entire life.

The most ignorant reason for me to be in Harms Way.


Say what you want, but the fact that Saddam "mass murdered" people in his own country before I was ever born does not constitute a reason to send my ass to another country in harms way... TWICE...
There were no WMDs......If there were, I would think differently....
There were no ties to terrorism.. until after we showed up that is......If there were before hand.... I would think differently.

Why do you think the ground assualt was easier than expected? Because there were no terrorists, only Baath Party loyalists and the Fedayeen, and there were not many of them. It wasn't until many many months of being in country did we start discovering NEW enemies that we didn't have many months before. These were the groups of "terrorists" or insurgents that our long lasting occupation created, that and a few terrorists decided to get in on some action, cause its easier to kill an American "infidel" when they are already on your side of the globe.
Lieberman was there how long, a few days and is a politician who knows nothing about this war compared to the person who wrote this. They were there for two tours of duty. Who does it make more sense to believe?

Caine were many of the soldiers who were there coming to the same conclusions you did? Are you aware that those of us who opposed this war are being told that we are against the soldiers and helping the terrorists by voicing or writing about out dissent?
 

Caine

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mesue said:
Lieberman was there how long, a few days and is a politician who knows nothing about this war compared to the person who wrote this. They were there for two tours of duty. Who does it make more sense to believe?

Caine were many of the soldiers who were there coming to the same conclusions you did? Are you aware that those of us who opposed this war are being told that we are against the soldiers and helping the terrorists by voicing or writing about out dissent?
Well, I had a small platoon, but out of them, I would say that the first time around we were supportive of the war, based on the """""intelligence""""" that we were sent there on. Halfway through the war (we were part of the beginning invasion) the support for what we were doing declined from a large group of the people in the unit. We still worked together as a team, just there were many of us who didn't agree with what we were doing.

The second time around had much less support from our platoon, I don't recall one person who was glad they were there patrolling neighborhoods that are already inside of a controlled border and having a Battalion Commander who put lives at risk several times until he was "lucky" enough to get attacked and earn his purple heart (this is true, this area he kept going to was not a part of our sector, yet he insisted on going there because it was a known hot bed for insurgents).

And, I am well aware of the "if you disagree with our government and speak badly of them in our time of war you should be locked up for treason" talk. Ive argued against it on many occasions and nobody from that mindset has been able to convince me that someone who disagrees with the war and speaks out about it, even loudly enough to earn media coverage (that Sheehan chick), is guilty of treason. Its just another way for the right-wing retards to feel more supportive of our country, and try to make those who don't agree with our government feel un-american. That being said, I won't get into this "new" definition of a Patriot or the idea of Patriotism for that matter.
 

Navy Pride

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mesue said:
Lieberman was there how long, a few days and is a politician who knows nothing about this war compared to the person who wrote this. They were there for two tours of duty. Who does it make more sense to believe?

Caine were many of the soldiers who were there coming to the same conclusions you did? Are you aware that those of us who opposed this war are being told that we are against the soldiers and helping the terrorists by voicing or writing about out dissent?

Leiberman was there 4 times in the last 17 months............

In addition anyone can say they have served in Iraq 2,3,4 tours......It does not mean much in this forum
 

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Navy Pride said:
Leiberman was there 4 times in the last 17 months............

In addition anyone can say they have served in Iraq 2,3,4 tours......It does not mean much in this forum
There goes Navy Pride, attacking my word as a veteran again....

This is why I put him on ignore before, out of his disrespectul attitude of my opinion as a soldier who has actually been to Iraq and seen the stupidity of it all.


Lieberman is also a politician..... he is not someone who works his ass off dealing with the everyday bullshit and dealing with the Iraqi people and thier attitudes.
 

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headforspace said:
When I say both (all) parties are guilty of making it a partisan issue, that is just my opinion. And having an opinion does not always mean partisan. It just means you disagree with me.
My post was directed at NP, sorry for the confusion.
 

mesue

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Navy Pride said:
In addition anyone can say they have served in Iraq 2,3,4 tours......It does not mean much in this forum
Well it should!!!! Oh I see what you mean, your questioning his credibility, why? He sounds credible to me and I have no reason not to trust and take him at his word.
 
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Caine

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mesue said:
Well it should!!!! Oh I see what you mean, your questioning his credibility, why? He sounds credible to me and I have no reason not to trust and take him at his word.
He tries to discredit me because I have been there and disagree with him.

He doesn't discredit those who have been "involved" in this conflict and DO agree with him.....

Which somehow usually consists of Navy guys who didn't go farther into country than the small coastal region of Iraq and Kuwait.
When I offered to provide a copy of my DD214 (discharge from active duty paperwork, which shows deployment time and where), he immediately exclaimed that DD214s are easy to fraud... see the lengths some people will go to discredit others?
 

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Caine said:
He tries to discredit me because I have been there and disagree with him.

He doesn't discredit those who have been "involved" in this conflict and DO agree with him.....

Which somehow usually consists of Navy guys who didn't go farther into country than the small coastal region of Iraq and Kuwait.
When I offered to provide a copy of my DD214 (discharge from active duty paperwork, which shows deployment time and where), he immediately exclaimed that DD214s are easy to fraud... see the lengths some people will go to discredit others?
My ex SIL was there for 6 months in Afghanistan and 14 in Iraq, he would have been sent back too except his time was up about two months after he got home and did not rejoin. The unit he was with just got sent back. He was there for the first 14 months.
I keep hoping for a miracle and that the undeniable truth comes out on those who sent you and so many others into harm's way without a second thought while they lounge in their offices and say, "Bring it on!"
 

Navy Pride

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mesue said:
Well it should!!!! Oh I see what you mean, your questioning his credibility, why? He sounds credible to me and I have no reason not to trust and take him at his word.
When people constantly brag on their duty there it makes one wonder.........
 

Caine

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Navy Pride said:
When people constantly brag on their duty there it makes one wonder.........
I brag because I am proud of it.....even if I don't agree with what I was doing.

You may say that makes no sense... I say this.... I signed up... **** hit the fan, I have no say in what I am ORDERED to do, I do what I am ordered.

I was ordered to do something.... Im proud I was a part of a military operation, but I disagree that we went in there with good intentions.
Fortunately, things are looking good with elections and I pray that the troops can come home in the near future, near meaning less than 5 years, but I doubt it though, we will most likely be there for a LONG, LONG time..... Take no offense of it Navy Pride, but if you are a Vietnam Veteran like you claim to be, then you are probably of the age that you will not see the troops completely pull out of Iraq.
 

Navy Pride

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Caine said:
I brag because I am proud of it.....even if I don't agree with what I was doing.

You may say that makes no sense... I say this.... I signed up... **** hit the fan, I have no say in what I am ORDERED to do, I do what I am ordered.

I was ordered to do something.... Im proud I was a part of a military operation, but I disagree that we went in there with good intentions.
Fortunately, things are looking good with elections and I pray that the troops can come home in the near future, near meaning less than 5 years, but I doubt it though, we will most likely be there for a LONG, LONG time..... Take no offense of it Navy Pride, but if you are a Vietnam Veteran like you claim to be, then you are probably of the age that you will not see the troops completely pull out of Iraq.
If you were in the military you know if you feel and order is unlawful you don't have to obey it..........

I may not see all the troops come home after all we still have troops in Germany Japan and Korea so I doubrt if you will either......

That said I will live to see a free democratic government set up in Iraq.....Will you put side your hatred for this president long enough to give him and his administration credit for accomplishing that/
 

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Navy Pride said:
If you were in the military you know if you feel and order is unlawful you don't have to obey it..........

I may not see all the troops come home after all we still have troops in Germany Japan and Korea so I doubrt if you will either......

That said I will live to see a free democratic government set up in Iraq.....Will you put side your hatred for this president long enough to give him and his administration credit for accomplishing that/
I never even mentioned the president in here.... Have I?
Stop making ignorant assumptions.

I guess I didn't make myself clear.
I was proud of what I did even though I did not agree with what I was doing... (That doesn't mean it is unlawful)

As you may have skipped because it wasn't something for you to argue about... I did say that THINGS ARE GOING GOOD WITH ELECTIONS... I am glad that Iraq is going to be a "free democratic society" thats great, but our continued presence there trivializes the validity of exactly how free they really will be. If we leave in due time (within at least the next 2 years), then I can really call them free. If we remain there under the consent of thier newly elected government... I can still call them free......
But, it has already been questioned (at least through the media) that if the newly elected government and thier prime minister all vote to ask us to leave Iraq... we most likely will tell them "No" .....this has been stated on many news networks, and I believe them..... The problem with that is, that makes us occupiers and it makes thier government appear not to be "Free" per se.

Thats my take on it......Of course you disagree.... but if the vote on it and want us out... we should do as they say, for they are the Democratic Nation of Iraq after all....who are we to continue to "occupy" them if they don't want us to?
 

Navy Pride

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Caine said:
I never even mentioned the president in here.... Have I?
Stop making ignorant assumptions.

I guess I didn't make myself clear.
I was proud of what I did even though I did not agree with what I was doing... (That doesn't mean it is unlawful)

As you may have skipped because it wasn't something for you to argue about... I did say that THINGS ARE GOING GOOD WITH ELECTIONS... I am glad that Iraq is going to be a "free democratic society" thats great, but our continued presence there trivializes the validity of exactly how free they really will be. If we leave in due time (within at least the next 2 years), then I can really call them free. If we remain there under the consent of thier newly elected government... I can still call them free......
But, it has already been questioned (at least through the media) that if the newly elected government and thier prime minister all vote to ask us to leave Iraq... we most likely will tell them "No" .....this has been stated on many news networks, and I believe them..... The problem with that is, that makes us occupiers and it makes thier government appear not to be "Free" per se.

Thats my take on it......Of course you disagree.... but if the vote on it and want us out... we should do as they say, for they are the Democratic Nation of Iraq after all....who are we to continue to "occupy" them if they don't want us to?

Well I asked you a qustion......Will you give this president that you hate so much that its eating you alive credit iif a free bonafied democracy is established in Iraq?

The administration has said over and over again that if the elected government of Iraq asks us to leave we will do so.......What part of that do you not understand?
 

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Navy Pride said:
Well I asked you a qustion......Will you give this president that you hate so much that its eating you alive credit iif a free bonafied democracy is established in Iraq?

The administration has said over and over again that if the elected government of Iraq asks us to leave we will do so.......What part of that do you not understand?
Im not answering your stupid question until you stop wording it like a moron.
Again I ask, Where did I state I hate Bush?????? Where did I say it is eating me Alive????? Please, sir, inform me of where I said this.....

Again, I state, As I have earlier (maybe it was in another thread), Bush does not deserve any credit for a free "bonafide" Democracy in Iraq because creating this democracy was not his intention, if you watch video from his 2000 election campaign you will see that he said our military should not be used for "Nation Building" so this is obviously not his original intent in Iraq, rather.. what HAS to be done in order to restore peace in a region destroyed by war.

I do not understand why white house representatives have been on Network News stating that we probably would NOT leave if asked to do so by the Iraqi government. There are two sides to this argument, cause there have been some who have said we would... im just wondering which one is being honest, and which one is trying to please the ears of the American people who have earned so much disdain for this war.
 

Navy Pride

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Caine said:
Im not answering your stupid question until you stop wording it like a moron.
Again I ask, Where did I state I hate Bush?????? Where did I say it is eating me Alive????? Please, sir, inform me of where I said this.....

Again, I state, As I have earlier (maybe it was in another thread), Bush does not deserve any credit for a free "bonafide" Democracy in Iraq because creating this democracy was not his intention, if you watch video from his 2000 election campaign you will see that he said our military should not be used for "Nation Building" so this is obviously not his original intent in Iraq, rather.. what HAS to be done in order to restore peace in a region destroyed by war.

I do not understand why white house representatives have been on Network News stating that we probably would NOT leave if asked to do so by the Iraqi government. There are two sides to this argument, cause there have been some who have said we would... im just wondering which one is being honest, and which one is trying to please the ears of the American people who have earned so much disdain for this war.
Why am I not surprised at you answer......:roll:
 

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Navy Pride said:
Why am I not surprised at you answer......:roll:
So, is that what you want?
Him to get elected on part of his campaign being not using our soldiers for "Nation Building" as he called it.... yet turn around and take the FULL credit for Building a Free Iraq?????

Fine...
I give President Bush credit for lying to the American people about not wanting to use our troops for Nation Building, then turning around and doing it anyways.

Or, would you rather me give him no credit at all....

In this case, its more respectful not to give him any credit.
 

Navy Pride

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Caine said:
So, is that what you want?
Him to get elected on part of his campaign being not using our soldiers for "Nation Building" as he called it.... yet turn around and take the FULL credit for Building a Free Iraq?????

Fine...
I give President Bush credit for lying to the American people about not wanting to use our troops for Nation Building, then turning around and doing it anyways.

Or, would you rather me give him no credit at all....

In this case, its more respectful not to give him any credit.
Do you give Kerry, Reid and Clinton credit too for lying??:roll:
 
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