To pay america's debt everybody sacrifice well not everybody?

[presluc]

I've heard a lot of talk recently about paying down the debt through sacrifices the American people must make.
Below is just a few questions reguarding that.

1, At one time the elderly was given a slight raise on their social security check 5 or 10 dollars far from being even close to the cost of living.
Do the elderly still get that NO, after all sacrifices must be made

2 If a person lost his job to outsourceing he went to a program in a trade school to learn a new thrade.
Can they still do that on the same programs? NO, AFTER ALL SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE

3 If a teacher is working at Oaktidge elementry school and paying taxes loses her job cause they closed the school will she be transfered to another school, still keeping her job? NO sacrifices must be made.

4 Are the police and firemen that protect us and our property getting enough manpower?
,NO SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE

Now the big question what sacrifices has the rich made?
NONE, tax rebates are still in place, the cheap labor still building parts, the golden parachute still there, grants still given , subsidies still in place.

How many new jobs have they created???eace

 

[TurtleDude]

I would say a group that makes 22% of the income and does not own all the wealth yet pays 40% of the income tax and almost all the wealth tax -aka the death tax-aka the estate tax-is certainly sacrificing given that for all that tax they pay they get absolutely no additional benefits from the government

on the other hand, we have 47% of the population that pays NONE of the federal income tax and none of the death tax yet they get all the benefits of citizenship as the rich do and they are often the people who vote for politicians who promise higher taxes on the rich.

its time they sacrifice

 

[Barbbtx]

Everyone should sacrifice, including able bodied poor. They should be made to work for their welfare checks, medicaid and foodstamps. It would help their self esteem and possibly lead to a job with a real paycheck.
Some examples:
They could be trained to work in childcare set-up to care for children of working poor single parents.
We could set up training for people to do handyman jobs to help seniors on fixed incomes.
Mowing lawns, grocery shopping, cooking, laundry etc .
They could clean up parks and roads.
They could plant trees.
We could set up community gardens they could work in and harvest from.
Also, if they don't have a HS diploma, they should be required to take classes until they are able to pass the equivalentcy test.
Right there would be a great self worth booster. Those truly unable to pass, are the type of people we should be taking care of.


Yes it would mean setting up yet more government programs, but ones I would approve of.
They also wouldn't have to be federal programs but state and local programs.

I really don't think most people enjoy being free-loaders, so they would have no problem working for these "entitlements," until they were able to provide for themselves and their family.

 

[presluc]

I would say a group that makes 22% of the income and does not own all the wealth yet pays 40% of the income tax and almost all the wealth tax -aka the death tax-aka the estate tax-is certainly sacrificing given that for all that tax they pay they get absolutely no additional benefits from the government

on the other hand, we have 47% of the population that pays NONE of the federal income tax and none of the death tax yet they get all the benefits of citizenship as the rich do and they are often the people who vote for politicians who promise higher taxes on the rich.

its time they sacrifice

Before you get too much into %s there you might want to take a look at the IRS. % of people making a wage that allows the IRS to collect income taxes.

As for the so called death tax ,actualy it's the inhiertance tax and it's no longer in use ask around.

If they are Americans should they not get the benifits of citizenship?
Perhaps you must be rich to have the benifits of citizenship?
If that were true rich people would get their hands dirty wouldn't want that would we?
Without the lower class who would buy from the rich, the dwindiling middle class?

 

[MaggieD]

Before you get too much into %s there you might want to take a look at the IRS. % of people making a wage that allows the IRS to collect income taxes.

What does that mean? 47% of American workers pay no taxes. What other percentage do you want? In today's child tax credit world, a couple making up to $51K with two children pays no Federal income tax. Again....what other percentage should he take a look at?

As for the so called death tax ,actualy it's the inhiertance tax and it's no longer in use ask around.

People opposed to the inheritance or estate tax often refer to it as a death tax -- because it takes a death to trigger it. It is around -- on estates greater than $5 million.

 

[presluc]

Everyone should sacrifice, including able bodied poor. They should be made to work for their welfare checks, medicaid and foodstamps. It would help their self esteem and possibly lead to a job with a real paycheck.
Some examples:
They could be trained to work in childcare set-up to care for children of working poor single parents.
We could set up training for people to do handyman jobs to help seniors on fixed incomes.
Mowing lawns, grocery shopping, cooking, laundry etc .
They could clean up parks and roads.
They could plant trees.
We could set up community gardens they could work in and harvest from.
Also, if they don't have a HS diploma, they should be required to take classes until they are able to pass the equivalentcy test.
Right there would be a great self worth booster. Those truly unable to pass, are the type of people we should be taking care of.


Yes it would mean setting up yet more government programs, but ones I would approve of.
They also wouldn't have to be federal programs but state and local programs.

I really don't think most people enjoy being free-loaders, so they would have no problem working for these "entitlements," until they were able to provide for themselves and their family.

First of all you don't get out much do you?
Able bodied people were working at factories in Michigan they got outsourced , able bodied people do work for their welfare when the state has work for them to do but most progams got budget cuts so no work.

Traning schools got budget cuts before and after the shutdown notice.

Adult education ?, please the state of Michigan has already closed one elementry school and has sights on two others I know of.
That's elementary K to 8, you think they are worried about adulteducation or training people.
You did get the memo BUDGET CUTS, SPENDING CUTS right?

However this thread ask a question that as yet to be answered?
What sacrifices have the rich made??

The lower classes are making sacrifices through budget cuts and spending cuts.
So what sacrifices have the rich made???eace

 

[Paschendale]

I would say a group that makes 22% of the income and does not own all the wealth yet pays 40% of the income tax and almost all the wealth tax -aka the death tax-aka the estate tax-is certainly sacrificing given that for all that tax they pay they get absolutely no additional benefits from the government

on the other hand, we have 47% of the population that pays NONE of the federal income tax and none of the death tax yet they get all the benefits of citizenship as the rich do and they are often the people who vote for politicians who promise higher taxes on the rich.

its time they sacrifice

I would value your opinions about taxation a lot more if you weren't constantly clamoring for improvements for your class. It's hard to hear anything besides "I want more! Me me me!"

 

[presluc]

I would value your opinions about taxation a lot more if you weren't constantly clamoring for improvements for your class. It's hard to hear anything besides "I want more! Me me me!"

Sir, perhaps you misunderstand my position.

I ask for more manufacturing jobs but no factory would hire me with a bad back.

I ask for more education for the this and the next generation but I can not go back to school or college.

I ask for more traing programs yet I can not use them.

I ask for more jobs in every state.
However, I have no plans to move

I ask for less property taxes yet I own no property.

America's in economic truble as well as debts.

I ask for sacrifices from all Americans, poor, working poor, middle class, upper class as well as rich.
Is that wrong?

How can the people that work pay more taxes if based on the IRS they don't get enough income. how can one pay more taxes if one does not have a job?eace

 

[MaggieD]

First of all you don't get out much do you?
Able bodied people were working at factories in Michigan they got outsourced , able bodied people do work for their welfare when the state has work for them to do but most progams got budget cuts so no work.

Traning schools got budget cuts before and after the shutdown notice.

Adult education ?, please the state of Michigan has already closed one elementry school and has sights on two others I know of.
That's elementary K to 8, you think they are worried about adulteducation or training people.
You did get the memo BUDGET CUTS, SPENDING CUTS right?

However this thread ask a question that as yet to be answered?
What sacrifices have the rich made??

The lower classes are making sacrifices through budget cuts and spending cuts.
So what sacrifices have the rich made???eace

Michigan has been slammed!! Unemployment stands at 10.3%. And I'm willing to bet that the under-employed in Michigan may well top every other state. In 2008, 109,000 more residents left than arrived. That's staggering. And the latest data I could find. Undoubtedly that trend has continued and possibly accelerated. When people can't find the good jobs they've lost, it's no surprise that they leave. With manufacturing plants closing all over the state, state revenue is down corporately, unemployment is up, state income tax revenue is down....talk about a quadruple whammy. I can see why a resident of Michigan would be shell-shocked.

I don't know how you really define "rich," but by most people's definition, is it any wonder they do not suffer like the working stiffs? Though I'm sure there are disaster tales among them, it's no surprise that, as a whole, the rich suffer very little in comparison during these kinds of downturns. But this is not their fault!! And it is unfair to blame them.

If it were not that I fully well know that any additional tax revenue our Federal government collects will simply be used to increase government expenditures, I'd be all for a tax increase on the wealthiest Americans. As it is, I stand rather neutral because until and unless we are willing to curb spending, not matter how much revenue the government collects, we're still going to be skrood.

 

[VanceMack]

I keep hearing this whole 'share the cost'...share the sacrifice. the reality is that most middle to low income people dont just NOT pay taxes they get 'free' money via the EIC at the end of every year. So...how exactly is it 'shared equally'?

 

[Barbbtx]

Michigan has been slammed!! Unemployment stands at 10.3%. And I'm willing to bet that the under-employed in Michigan may well top every other state. In 2008, 109,000 more residents left than arrived. That's staggering. And the latest data I could find. Undoubtedly that trend has continued and possibly accelerated. When people can't find the good jobs they've lost, it's no surprise that they leave. With manufacturing plants closing all over the state, state revenue is down corporately, unemployment is up, state income tax revenue is down....talk about a quadruple whammy. I can see why a resident of Michigan would be shell-shocked.

I don't know how you really define "rich," but by most people's definition, is it any wonder they do not suffer like the working stiffs? Though I'm sure there are disaster tales among them, it's no surprise that, as a whole, the rich suffer very little in comparison during these kinds of downturns. But this is not their fault!! And it is unfair to blame them.

If it were not that I fully well know that any additional tax revenue our Federal government collects will simply be used to increase government expenditures, I'd be all for a tax increase on the wealthiest Americans. As it is, I stand rather neutral because until and unless we are willing to curb spending, not matter how much revenue the government collects, we're still going to be skrood.

A simple "like" wasn't good enough.

:bravo:

 

[TurtleDude]

I would value your opinions about taxation a lot more if you weren't constantly clamoring for improvements for your class. It's hard to hear anything besides "I want more! Me me me!"

you are wrong--I want to pay less I don't want anything More My class pays far too much. we subsidize the middle and lower classes and our subsidies allows them to vote for more and more spending without paying any price for that recklessness

I want my class to pay for what we use. right now we pay for just about everyone else as well

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I shouldn't have to sacrifice anything.
Those that elected these numb skulls over the years should bear the burden, not everyone.

 

[UtahBill]

I shouldn't have to sacrifice anything.
Those that elected these numb skulls over the years should bear the burden, not everyone.

another election is coming up, got anybody in mind? anybody who can beat Obama?
So far, the GOP hasn't either....

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

another election is coming up, got anybody in mind? anybody who can beat Obama?
So far, the GOP hasn't either....

Yea, I don't bother voting because even though I'm old enough, my vote is worthless.

See I go for people who don't promise me pie in the sky nonsense but those that tell me the abrupt truth, even if it hurts to hear.

Bill, your generation has mine by the short and curlies, not much I can do about it.

 

[washunut]

another election is coming up, got anybody in mind? anybody who can beat Obama?
So far, the GOP hasn't either....

This time in 2007 no one thought Clinton was beatable. That being said I am not sure anyone can beat the Obama team with money collected, union members on phone banks and a media that gets a thrill up it's leg if he wins. Pretty big mountain to climb. Only a huge misstep by Obama could cause him to lose.

 

[TurtleDude]

This time in 2007 no one thought Clinton was beatable. That being said I am not sure anyone can beat the Obama team with money collected, union members on phone banks and a media that gets a thrill up it's leg if he wins. Pretty big mountain to climb. Only a huge misstep by Obama could cause him to lose.

I have never seen a campaign where the press was more partisan than their love affair with sham wow

if they had subjected that clown to the same scrutiny they imposed on Palin I doubt the messiah would have beaten HIllary

 

[washunut]

I have never seen a campaign where the press was more partisan than their love affair with sham wow

if they had subjected that clown to the same scrutiny they imposed on Palin I doubt the messiah would have beaten HIllary

Totally agree. Hillary has to be still fuming about it. Especially since McCain was such a weak candidate, she would have been president.

 

[TurtleDude]

Totally agree. Hillary has to be still fuming about it. Especially since McCain was such a weak candidate, she would have been president.

she didn't give chris matthews warm tingly feelings running up his leg

white guilt, black racism, and a lapdog press elected that clown. McCain was weak but sadly the bible thumping bigots killed the candidacy of the best qualified GOP candidate-the one guy who wasn't a slut and who had a stronger academic resume than sham wow's

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I shouldn't have to sacrifice anything.
Those that elected these numb skulls over the years should bear the burden, not everyone.

But you will

Given the expenditures of the US federal government an equal share in the tax portion would break those of lower income levels. Which you have stated you are a part of. Turtledude would of course come out better off, but others like you, Cpwill for instance would pay far more in taxes and receive far less in services (cpWill especially as he is employed by the US federal government)

So your burden will go up, Turtledudes go down, and you will be happier of course.

 

[washunut]

she didn't give chris matthews warm tingly feelings running up his leg

white guilt, black racism, and a lapdog press elected that clown. McCain was weak but sadly the bible thumping bigots killed the candidacy of the best qualified GOP candidate-the one guy who wasn't a slut and who had a stronger academic resume than sham wow's

The press did not want that fight, they would have looked silly backing rhe messiah in that one.

 

[UtahBill]

Yea, I don't bother voting because even though I'm old enough, my vote is worthless.

See I go for people who don't promise me pie in the sky nonsense but those that tell me the abrupt truth, even if it hurts to hear.

Bill, your generation has mine by the short and curlies, not much I can do about it.

you should read your own sig.....

My wife and I started out poor, and it wasn't social security that gave us a leg up....
It was getting more education, getting good jobs, living well within our means, avoiding debt, and saving like their was no one else to provide for our old age.
Anything in that list that you can't do?

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

But you will

Given the expenditures of the US federal government an equal share in the tax portion would break those of lower income levels. Which you have stated you are a part of. Turtledude would of course come out better off, but others like you, Cpwill for instance would pay far more in taxes and receive far less in services (cpWill especially as he is employed by the US federal government)

So your burden will go up, Turtledudes go down, and you will be happier of course.

I do believe that if the government takes the inflated out way out of debt route, it will definitely hurt me more.

My problem is that I didn't ask for these programs and I didn't benefit from all the excessive spending, why should I have to pay anything for it?

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

you should read your own sig.....

My wife and I started out poor, and it wasn't social security that gave us a leg up....
It was getting more education, getting good jobs, living well within our means, avoiding debt, and saving like their was no one else to provide for our old age.
Anything in that list that you can't do?

I'm not asking for a hand out, I'm asking that those who incurred the debt, to be responsible for paying it.
I've come a long way, with little to no help from uncle sam, I prefer they not add additional burdens to me.

 

[UtahBill]

I'm not asking for a hand out, I'm asking that those who incurred the debt, to be responsible for paying it.
I've come a long way, with little to no help from uncle sam, I prefer they not add additional burdens to me.

Those of us who CAN pay, WILL pay. The only way for the poor to pay is to cut back on what is given to them, for now.
Govt policies that encourage USEFUL education, creation of jobs, incentives to keep jobs here in the USA, etc. will help. But for now, WALL STREET runs this country, and they seek short term profit instead of long term growth.