To Christianity is Islam and Judaism Heathenish or Heretical?

[falcata]

I was curious about the answer to this since all three are considered Abrahamic religions. This of course revolves around what exactly makes a heretic or a heathen, but since I am unaware what that precedent is I wanted to ask what people generally thought.

 

[Grand Mal]

I was curious about the answer to this since all three are considered Abrahamic religions. This of course revolves around what exactly makes a heretic or a heathen, but since I am unaware what that precedent is I wanted to ask what people generally thought.

Google is your friend. There's a clear difference between 'heretic' and 'heathen'.

 

[lizzie]

I was curious about the answer to this since all three are considered Abrahamic religions. This of course revolves around what exactly makes a heretic or a heathen, but since I am unaware what that precedent is I wanted to ask what people generally thought.

In the Christian circles that I grew up in, neither was called "heathen" or "heretical", but the common belief was that since they weren't Christian, they would be in deep **** when dying time came. Actually, I never heard of anyone referred to as either, although I'm sure that was just due to my specific environment. I haven't practiced formal religion for about 30 years now, so I have no idea if this general belief has changed in any manner.

 

[falcata]

Google is your friend. There's a clear difference between 'heretic' and 'heathen'.

Is it clear though? When it comes to Abrahamic beliefs where does the split occur? I searched and the majority of what I found said something along the lines of "A heathen is someone who belongs to a different faith ,a heretic is someone who belongs to the same faith but is teaching false doctrine".

To my own and most's perception Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same god. So why wouldn't they actually be considered heretics instead of heathens?

 

[falcata]

In the Christian circles that I grew up in, neither was called "heathen" or "heretical", but the common belief was that since they weren't Christian, they would be in deep **** when dying time came. Actually, I never heard of anyone referred to as either, although I'm sure that was just due to my specific environment. I haven't practiced formal religion for about 30 years now, so I have no idea if this general belief has changed in any manner.

So would you say it was more of plain "outsider" mentality?

 

[RogueWarrior]

First you need to define the words you want us to discuss. Too many bad discussions happen when people are not on the same page.

Both heretical by falcata's def.
They all worship the same god but have different ideas about prophets. In any event, a lot people are going to be disappointed. Especially those who never really got to chose their religion but rather were indoctrinated by the parents.

 

[Grand Mal]

Is it clear though? When it comes to Abrahamic beliefs where does the split occur? I searched and the majority of what I found said something along the lines of "A heathen is someone who belongs to a different faith ,a heretic is someone who belongs to the same faith but is teaching false doctrine".

To my own and most's perception Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same god. So why wouldn't they actually be considered heretics instead of heathens?

Well, then you and most must be wrong. There's heresy within Christianity and Islam and Judaism, according to the definition. Between them, they're heathens.
A hint- heresy is mostly about how they worship, not who.

 

[lizzie]

So would you say it was more of plain "outsider" mentality?

Yes, but I tend to view most religions that way. Much of religion seems to be a social affair as much as religious in the real sense of the word.

 

[Grand Mal]

First you need to define the words you want us to discuss. Too many bad discussions happen when people are not on the same page.

The words have already been defined. If you don't know the definitions, just look them up.

 

[falcata]

Well, then you and most must be wrong. There's heresy within Christianity and Islam and Judaism, according to the definition. Between them, they're heathens.
A hint- heresy is mostly about how they worship, not who.

So you do not believe that the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim god are all one and the same?

If so based off the last comment you made you would agree that the three are more heretical in nature to each other rather than heathenish

 

[Grand Mal]

So you do not believe that the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim god are all one and the same?

If so based off the last comment you made you would agree that the three are more heretical in nature to each other rather than heathenish

Sure. Not what the Christian Brothers taught in parochial school, but whatever.

 

[falcata]

Sure. Not what the Christian Brothers taught in parochial school, but whatever.

Sorry, but I accidentally switched the two around in my previous comment.

I don't think you clarified though. Do you believe that all the Abrahamic religions share the same god?

 

[Logicman]

To my own and most's perception Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same god.

Here's why I don't think that's accurate:

Do Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God? « The Righter Report

 

[lizzie]

Sorry, but I accidentally switched the two around in my previous comment.

I don't think you clarified though. Do you believe that all the Abrahamic religions share the same god?

I know this post wasn't directed at me, but yes, they share the same God. I'm not sure that many Christians would admit to that. I really don't know if many Jewish people would. As for Muslims, they seem to have no problem with admitting it. I would venture a guess that Christians would most likely consider them heathen, over heretical, if given the two choices.

 

[falcata]

Here's why I don't think that's accurate:

Do Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God? « The Righter Report

This actually really helps answer the question I posed, thank you. According to this admittedly conservative and presumably christian website Christianity's god cannot be Islam's god because of inconsistencies with their actions and potentiality "pagan" influences upon Islam's creation.

However just as Christianity was a reformed version of Judaism, perhaps Islam could be considered a revised version of Christianity and Judaism. I say this because I know many people personally who have told me there is a difference between the benevolent God of the New Testament and the wrathful God of the Old Testament.

 

[Grand Mal]

Sorry, but I accidentally switched the two around in my previous comment.

I don't think you clarified though. Do you believe that all the Abrahamic religions share the same god?

I don't know. Do they have to share? Can't they each have their own?

 

[falcata]

I know this post wasn't directed at me, but yes, they share the same God. I'm not sure that many Christians would admit to that. I really don't know if many Jewish people would. As for Muslims, they seem to have no problem with admitting it. I would venture a guess that Christians would most likely consider them heathen, over heretical, if given the two choices.

Thank you. I would assume that most people would come to this conclusion based upon the history and the origins of the religions, but I was curious to read logicman's article as well which argued that the potential pagan influences upon Allah himself makes him different than the Christian's God. Though whether this is well founded or bias is moot.

 

[falcata]

I don't know. Do they have to share? Can't they each have their own?

Well yes they could, but I'm curious as to what answer is the closest to the the truth.

 

[Grand Mal]

Well yes they could, but I'm curious as to what answer is the closest to the the truth.

Good luck with that. Muslims staunchly maintain a homogenous Allah, Christians fracture God into three (well, not Unitarians, but that just complicates things further) and if the Jewish God of the Old Testament is the same God in the New, well, He went through some changes somehow.

 

[lizzie]

Thank you. I would assume that most people would come to this conclusion based upon the history and the origins of the religions, but I was curious to read logicman's article as well which argued that the potential pagan influences upon Allah himself makes him different than the Christian's God. Though whether this is well founded or bias is moot.

I'm really not sure how Christians themselves don't understand that their own origins are pagan as well.

 

[Logicman]

This actually really helps answer the question I posed, thank you. According to this admittedly conservative and presumably christian website Christianity's god cannot be Islam's god because of inconsistencies with their actions and potentiality "pagan" influences upon Islam's creation.

However just as Christianity was a reformed version of Judaism, perhaps Islam could be considered a revised version of Christianity and Judaism. I say this because I know many people personally who have told me there is a difference between the benevolent God of the New Testament and the wrathful God of the Old Testament.

I see Christianity as the rightful fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism, what with the scores of Messianic prophecies fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

What's more, Jesus is God in the Old Testament. Study this link and you will see the logic in it. Note: "Angel" correctly means messenger in this study. Angel of the LORD

Another thing of note is that in Islam, "salvation" is by works, and one doesn't know when he's done enough of them to please Allah.

In Judaism and Christianity, salvation/righteousness is by faith in God (Genesis 15:6 and Ephesians 2:8-9), and salvation can be assured (Romans 10:9-10 and John 5:24, etc.). So that lends additional evidence that the "god" of Islam is different than the God of Judaism and Christianity.

 

[Logicman]

I'm really not sure how Christians themselves don't understand that their own origins are pagan as well.

Prove it, lizzie!

 

[lizzie]

Prove it, lizzie!

I'll tell you what. When you can offer some proof, I will. You can't do it.

 

[Logicman]

I'll tell you what. When you can offer some proof, I will. You can't do it.

You made another highly questionable claim like you often do (that the origin of Christianity was pagan), so you have the obligation to back it up and provide your evidence for it.

Can't you back up your claims?

 

[Grand Mal]

Prove it, lizzie!

How? What would convince you?