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To ANYONE questioning the defunding the police movement.

Guyzilla

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When you have a family or friend in distress, you had BETTER think twice, before calling cops for help. My father, who is a sick ****, called many times, after saying he wanted me suicided by cop. He wanted me dead, as I was disabled, and waiting for disability insurance, five years. And they didnt dissapoint. I came very close to being bashed by cop several times.
I had cops lie to me, goad me, ridicule me INSULT me, trying to get an opportunity to crack my skull, or bust me up. And said so.

Cops have one mode. DOMINATE. They dont seem to have ANY skills at deescalation. And they pick sides. Based upon spurious criteria. Their training is GUARANTEED to lead to physicality, or damage. Due to an assumption, that ANY number of folks blown away, is better than ONE bagpipe funeral.

Is this fair to cops? Not entirely, as this is the choice WE have made as a society. We placed all that on their shoulders. And when we try to rectify this, the right wing screams that we want mayhem. We want gangs OWNING all neighborhoods. We want mushrooms, with no police to find the killer. We are inhumane.

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Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism after mother calls for help

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (KUTV) – A 13-year-old autistic boy is still recovering in the hospital after getting shot several times by police on Friday night in Glendale.

Linden Cameron had injuries to his shoulder, both ankles, intestines, and bladder, according to his mother, Golda Barton.

As an officer-involved shooting investigation is underway with the Salt Lake City Police Department, the boy's mother told 2News what happened.

Barton said she was the one who called the police and asked for a crisis intervention team (CIT). She said her son, who was Asperger's, was having a mental breakdown. She spoke briefly about how she was told how the CIT would respond:

She explained to the CIT that her son was having a mental breakdown and needed to be transported to the hospital for treatment. It was the first day Barton had returned to work in almost a year because she can't be away from her son: "he has bad separation anxiety," she explained. On the phone with officers, Barton told officers the best way to approach her son:






Mother of autistic boy shot by police speaks out: 'Why didn't you just tackle him?' | KUTV

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And this is after careful explanation of the situation, and how careful to be. This particular situation is largely Reagan's fault, as he had police take over so many roles, to save a buck, or use a hammer for every problem.
 

ttwtt78640

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When you have a family or friend in distress, you had BETTER think twice, before calling cops for help. My father, who is a sick ****, called many times, after saying he wanted me suicided by cop. He wanted me dead, as I was disabled, and waiting for disability insurance, five years. And they didnt dissapoint. I came very close to being bashed by cop several times.
I had cops lie to me, goad me, ridicule me INSULT me, trying to get an opportunity to crack my skull, or bust me up. And said so.

Cops have one mode. DOMINATE. They dont seem to have ANY skills at deescalation. And they pick sides. Based upon spurious criteria. Their training is GUARANTEED to lead to physicality, or damage. Due to an assumption, that ANY number of folks blown away, is better than ONE bagpipe funeral.

Is this fair to cops? Not entirely, as this is the choice WE have made as a society. We placed all that on their shoulders. And when we try to rectify this, the right wing screams that we want mayhem. We want gangs OWNING all neighborhoods. We want mushrooms, with no police to find the killer. We are inhumane.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism after mother calls for help

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (KUTV) – A 13-year-old autistic boy is still recovering in the hospital after getting shot several times by police on Friday night in Glendale.

Linden Cameron had injuries to his shoulder, both ankles, intestines, and bladder, according to his mother, Golda Barton.

As an officer-involved shooting investigation is underway with the Salt Lake City Police Department, the boy's mother told 2News what happened.

Barton said she was the one who called the police and asked for a crisis intervention team (CIT). She said her son, who was Asperger's, was having a mental breakdown. She spoke briefly about how she was told how the CIT would respond:

She explained to the CIT that her son was having a mental breakdown and needed to be transported to the hospital for treatment. It was the first day Barton had returned to work in almost a year because she can't be away from her son: "he has bad separation anxiety," she explained. On the phone with officers, Barton told officers the best way to approach her son:






Mother of autistic boy shot by police speaks out: 'Why didn't you just tackle him?' | KUTV

----------------------------------------------------
And this is after careful explanation of the situation, and how careful to be. This particular situation is largely Reagan's fault, as he had police take over so many roles, to save a buck, or use a hammer for every problem.

Hmm... after "many" police encounters you have experienced no police physical abuse. That is amazing proof of how often it must occur. ;)
 

Guyzilla

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Hmm... after "many" police encounters you have experienced no police physical abuse. That is amazing proof of how often it must occur. ;)

That is because I have a high IQ, and did NOTHING WRONG.
 

ttwtt78640

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That is because I have a high IQ, and did NOTHING WRONG.

OK, yet that seems to imply that those (allegedly) abused by police were stupid and/or did SOMETHING WRONG. ;)
 

Guyzilla

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OK, yet that seems to imply that those (allegedly) abused by police were stupid and/or did SOMETHING WRONG. ;)

When a cop is harassing you, it is EXCEEDINGLY easy to say the wrong thing. I had a cop say that I was a liar, that I was NOT an engineer. He was in my face. When he demanded to know which companies I had worked for, I was drawing blanks. They are intimidating.

My father had told police, that I say I am an engineer, and implying that the cops should lock me up for being nuts. This, after I FORCED my father, to sit in a chair, and read my resume. He writhed in pain.
 

ttwtt78640

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When a cop is harassing you, it is EXCEEDINGLY easy to say the wrong thing. I had a cop say that I was a liar, that I was NOT an engineer. He was in my face. When he demanded to know which companies I had worked for, I was drawing blanks. They are intimidating.

My father had told police, that I say I am an engineer, and implying that the cops should lock me up for being nuts. This, after I FORCED my father, to sit in a chair, and read my resume. He writhed in pain.

Yep, you say that you forced your father to "writhe in pain", yet the police are abusive. ;)
 

Aunt Antifa

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OK, yet that seems to imply that those (allegedly) abused by police were stupid and/or did SOMETHING WRONG. ;)

Corrupt authority requires lower educated, poor communities to dominate.

Also: your definition for police involvement seems to confirm its own bias: a cop simply interacting with a citizen somehow proves the citizen was up to no good as far as you’ve been arguing.
 

ttwtt78640

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Corrupt authority requires lower educated, poor communities to dominate.

Also: your definition for police involvement seems to confirm its own bias: a cop simply interacting with a citizen somehow proves the citizen was up to no good as far as you’ve been arguing.

In the OP case, the police "interaction" was in direct response to a citizen complaint. If any abuse had occurred then it surely would have been noted.
 

Aunt Antifa

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In the OP case, the police "interaction" was in direct response to a citizen complaint. If any abuse had occurred then it surely would have been noted.

Nothing you just wrote stands in contrast to anything I just wrote.
 

Guyzilla

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Yep, you say that you forced your father to "writhe in pain", yet the police are abusive. ;)

IT hurt him to admit I am not an idiot. He REFUSED many times to read it. As he called me a liar, as he had never reached engineer level.
 

btthegreat

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When you have a family or friend in distress, you had BETTER think twice, before calling cops for help. My father, who is a sick ****, called many times, after saying he wanted me suicided by cop. He wanted me dead, as I was disabled, and waiting for disability insurance, five years. And they didnt dissapoint. I came very close to being bashed by cop several times.
I had cops lie to me, goad me, ridicule me INSULT me, trying to get an opportunity to crack my skull, or bust me up. And said so.

Cops have one mode. DOMINATE. They dont seem to have ANY skills at deescalation. And they pick sides. Based upon spurious criteria. Their training is GUARANTEED to lead to physicality, or damage. Due to an assumption, that ANY number of folks blown away, is better than ONE bagpipe funeral.

Is this fair to cops? Not entirely, as this is the choice WE have made as a society. We placed all that on their shoulders. And when we try to rectify this, the right wing screams that we want mayhem. We want gangs OWNING all neighborhoods. We want mushrooms, with no police to find the killer. We are inhumane.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism after mother calls for help

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (KUTV) – A 13-year-old autistic boy is still recovering in the hospital after getting shot several times by police on Friday night in Glendale.

Linden Cameron had injuries to his shoulder, both ankles, intestines, and bladder, according to his mother, Golda Barton.

As an officer-involved shooting investigation is underway with the Salt Lake City Police Department, the boy's mother told 2News what happened.

Barton said she was the one who called the police and asked for a crisis intervention team (CIT). She said her son, who was Asperger's, was having a mental breakdown. She spoke briefly about how she was told how the CIT would respond:

She explained to the CIT that her son was having a mental breakdown and needed to be transported to the hospital for treatment. It was the first day Barton had returned to work in almost a year because she can't be away from her son: "he has bad separation anxiety," she explained. On the phone with officers, Barton told officers the best way to approach her son:






Mother of autistic boy shot by police speaks out: 'Why didn't you just tackle him?' | KUTV

----------------------------------------------------
And this is after careful explanation of the situation, and how careful to be. This particular situation is largely Reagan's fault, as he had police take over so many roles, to save a buck, or use a hammer for every problem.
Not much of a fan of 'defunding' when it comes to most local state or municipal government agencies. By and large I see them as normally underfunded for social purposes and expectation they are expected to accomplish. I see no reason to assume the county, city and state police are somehow rolling in the dough. If we want police to do better work, we need more money for increased training and more staff both in and out of the police station.

If we want to move some of their responsibilities, we need to pay more for the replacement services to get them an agency, an infrastructure and the staff first, then cut the police budget. Lets not do what they have done so many times before. Remember in the 70's, we decided to move inpatient mental health services and the developmentally delayed out of larger institutional care( the 'warehousing' ), but never quite got around to actually funding the smaller group home model, getting the homes bought or leased, and funding the staff? For decades, we sent people out into the community with no services, no placement, and no coordinated plan so we could 'defund' the large institutions

We must not make that mistake again. If the support services do not exist to take the pressure off the cops, lets not assume they will magically appear when we cut the police budget.

I also recognise that one of the few tools to get a stubborn recalcitrant bureaucracy or union to stop obstructing reform is to use that annual or biannual budget to gain concessions. I have no problem with collective bargaining, but sometimes management ( your mayor, city council, governor or legislature) is actually wearing the white hat, not the black hat. They need some big sticks and carrots in order to win, and 'defunding' or increased resources has to be the carrot or the stick of last resort.

Every community needs to decide for themselves how much reform they need, and how they intend to get from the blueprint, to reality. This is not a one size fits all kind of problem.
 
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Guyzilla

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Not much of a fan of 'defunding' when it comes to most local state or municipal government agencies. By and large I see them as normally underfunded for social purposes and expectation they are expected to accomplish. I see no reason to assume the county, city and state police are somehow rolling in the dough. If we want police to do better work, we need more money for increased training and more staff both in and out of the police station.

If we want to move some of their responsibilities, we need to pay more for the replacement services to get them an agency, an infrastructure and the staff first, then cut the police budget. Lets not do what they have done so many times before. Remember in the 70's, we decided to move inpatient mental health services and the developmentally delayed out of larger institutional care( the 'warehousing' ), but never quite got around to actually funding the smaller group home model, getting the homes bought or leased, and funding the staff? For decades, we sent people out into the community with no services, no placement, and no coordinated plan so we could 'defund' the large institutions

We must not make that mistake again. If the support services do not exist to take the pressure off the cops, lets not assume they will magically appear when we cut the police budget.

I also recognise that one of the few tools to get a stubborn recalcitrant bureaucracy or union to stop obstructing reform is to use that annual or biannual budget to gain concessions. I have no problem with collective bargaining, but sometimes management ( your mayor, city council, governor or legislature) is actually wearing the white hat, not the black hat. They need some big sticks and carrots in order to win, and 'defunding' or increased resources has to be the carrot or the stick of last resort.

Every community needs to decide for themselves how much reform they need, and how they intend to get from the blueprint, to reality. This is not a one size fits all kind of problem.

GOOD point. It should maybe be called, FUNDING. Not defunding. We need MORE money going into things that will help kids lead productive adulthoods. MORE money, for mental health hospitals and no stigma programs. More funding, not less.

BUT, I still think there are better folks, for doing a lot of the jobs cops wind up doing.
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Which leads to REPARATIONS. We need to pay reparations for slavery, for lack of a better term. Actually, the SLAVERY past, has created first Jim Crow, then straight repression, which is, SYSTEMIC RACISM.

Thus, we MUST fund areas that are heavy minority, to compensate for our ridiculous scheme of apportionment according to the wealth of that community. AS they say, location yadda yadda. And, to compensate for the vestiges of slavery that manifest themselves in modern society. Funding OPPORTUNITY. Equality.

THAT, we owe. Reparations is also a word that is not good SOUNDING, but good in principle.
 
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btthegreat

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GOOD point. It should maybe be called, FUNDING. Not defunding. We need MORE money going into things that will help kids lead productive adulthoods. MORE money, for mental health hospitals and no stigma programs. More funding, not less.

BUT, I still think there are better folks, for doing a lot of the jobs cops wind up doing.

Absolutely. Either we need the resources to hire people with a mental health background and de-escalation training and the requisite skillsets and train them to work in the police force, or we need to fund a separate agency that can respond to calls, but we need to do something very different than what we are doing! But if we want people with a broader array of professional experience to work in our police departments, we are going to have to pay them better than we do a cop without that extra degree, or background. That means increasing that budget, not defunding it.

This business of doing some yearly seminars in these topics for a quicky 'review, and sending the beat cop back into the streets to do exactly the same thing they did before their in-service, has got to go!
 
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