Time to make peace with Iran?

[Amadeus]

So now we're talking about Iraq and not Iran? Don't get me wrong, I can see why you need to move the goal posts but - is this where you want to go now?

This is where I wanted to go from the beginning. Why do you think I sparked the discussion, now, instead three weeks ago? Because I'm an Iranian apologist?

 

[Amadeus]

Oh, this is beautiful... Graham talking about red lines and opening up direct talks with Iran to assist with foreign policy decisions.

 

[Ockham]

This is where I wanted to go from the beginning. Why do you think I sparked the discussion, now, instead three weeks ago? Because I'm an Iranian apologist?

How is that relevant to the topic.

 

[Amadeus]

How is that relevant to the topic.

My comment is very relevant to this topic. The Youtube clip is relevant only to you specifically.

 

[Thrilla]

i don't mind if we have limited cooperation from time to time... but I do not think we should ally ourselves with Iran as a matter of policy....i find it more preferable to ignore they exist ... a government run by ultrareligious zealots should be no friend of ours.... no automatic enemy, but no friend either.

 

[Ockham]

My comment is very relevant to this topic. The Youtube clip is relevant only to you specifically.

I'm still waiting for a convincing and coherent set of facts...what you've provided so far resembles pablum. Should I continue to hope or has hope left the room?

 

[Amadeus]

i don't mind if we have limited cooperation from time to time... but I do not think we should ally ourselves with Iran as a matter of policy....i find it more preferable to ignore they exist ... a government run by ultrareligious zealots should be no friend of ours.... no automatic enemy, but no friend either.

Peace with Iran does not necessarily mean wholeheartedly agreeing with them. It largely means an end to the constant beat of the wardrum and fear-mongering from the right-wing, the acquiescence to Israel's paranoia, and occasional cooperation in matters where there is a common interest.

 

[Amadeus]

I'm still waiting for a convincing and coherent set of facts...what you've provided so far resembles pablum. Should I continue to hope or has hope left the room?

Linsdey Graham is calling for cooperation with Iran. The other shoe has fallen.

 

[Ockham]

Linsdey Graham is calling for cooperation with Iran. The other shoe has fallen.

Graham's delusional. He offers no coherent reasons why it's beneficial to the US either.

 

[Thrilla]

Peace with Iran does not necessarily mean wholeheartedly agreeing with them. It largely means an end to the constant beat of the wardrum and fear-mongering from the right-wing, the acquiescence to Israel's paranoia, and occasional cooperation in matters where there is a common interest.

hopefully it means not doing business with them as well.... i think militant backwards societies should be left to rot on their own, except in those rare events where they can be used to benefit our interests.( i don't care about their interests, they are irrelevant to us)


there's a reason i'm not being partisan.... you can be as partisan as you want, but i won't entertain it.

 

[Amadeus]

Graham's delusional.

Graham is the most hard-line anti-Iranian conservative this side of Netanyahoo.

He offers no coherent reasons why it's beneficial to the US either.

Other than to protect America's investment in Iraq and influence in the Middle East.

 

[Amadeus]

hopefully it means not doing business with them as well.... i think militant backwards societies should be left to rot on their own, except in those rare events where they can be used to benefit our interests.( i don't care about their interests, they are irrelevant to us)

The Iranian society itself is not backwards or militant. That's a common misperception.

 

[Ockham]

Graham is the most hard-line anti-Iranian conservative this side of Netanyahoo.

He's also a delusional along with McCain, and still hasn't provided how this is beneficial to the US.

Other than to protect America's investment in Iraq and influence in the Middle East.

The US abandoned any investment we had in Iraq 2 years ago when the last soldiers left, so your point is irrelevant.

 

[Amadeus]

The US abandoned any investment we had in Iraq 2 years ago when the last soldiers left, so your point is irrelevant.

Of course, that's entirely Maliki's fault. He decided to be a sectarian thug. If you're advocating for the US to cut its ties with the Middle East, then fine. That's at least a defendable position.

 

[Ockham]

Of course, that's entirely Maliki's fault. He decided to be a sectarian thug.

Irrelevant.

If you're advocating for the US to cut its ties with the Middle East, then fine. That's at least a defendable position.

My view is containment and letting Shia and Sunni factions kill themselves off in as many inventive ways as they can imagine. No US air strikes, no US boots on the ground, no sending weapons or money.

 

[Amadeus]

Irrelevant.

How is that not relevant to what you said? Maliki wanted the US out of Iraq, and the current problems are due to his leadership.

 

[Thrilla]

The Iranian society itself is not backwards or militant. That's a common misperception.

their society is irrelevant... we don't deal with their society... we deal with their government.

and yes, i know their society isn't backwards.... their society would mesh rather well with ours, in fact....well certain sects of it anyways.
the sect that supports ultra religious zealotry can get bent.

 

[Thrilla]

Irrelevant.

My view is containment and letting Shia and Sunni factions kill themselves off in as many inventive ways as they can imagine. No US air strikes, no US boots on the ground, no sending weapons or money.

we should be helping the Kurds provide for their security and prosperity... something they are doing rather well at as it is.

 

[Ockham]

How is that not relevant to what you said? Maliki wanted the US out of Iraq, and the current problems are due to his leadership.

You're not being coherent. Maliki has nothing to do with defining what if anything the US will or will not do about Iran. Iran is the subject of this thread, YOUR thread that YOU opened.

 

[Amadeus]

their society is irrelevant... we don't deal with their society... we deal with their government.

and yes, i know their society isn't backwards.... their society would mesh rather well with ours, in fact....well certain sects of it anyways.
the sect that supports ultra religious zealotry can get bent.

Understood, and thank you for actually addressing the topic.

My position is that forming positive relationships with Iranian society is a good place to start. An interwoven economy ultimately leads to better relations, even if the government is backwards.

 

[Ockham]

we should be helping the Kurds provide for their security and prosperity... something they are doing rather well at as it is.

A sticky situation given Turkey who is a NATO member would be quite put out by such an action. The PKK Kurds in Southern Turkey are seen as terrorists to Turkey for decades. It would have to be a negotiated set of steps between the US and the Kurds and would presume that the US would be enforcing such action if the Kurds were to move permanently into Norther Iraq. Perhaps we could do so quietly but if Turkey got wind of it, we'd have a lot more to lose by Turkey shutting us out. They are the one ally in the region that we still have relatively good standing with other than Israel.

 

[Thrilla]

Understood, and thank you for actually addressing the topic.

My position is that forming positive relationships with Iranian society is a good place to start. An interwoven economy ultimately leads to better relations, even if the government is backwards.

I don't mind that position... but i don't believe we should engage their society until the government that represents that society changes or leaves.... if it remains, so be it, they'll have to live on without the great Satan and our economic power.

 

[Thrilla]

A sticky situation given Turkey who is a NATO member would be quite put out by such an action. The PKK Kurds in Southern Turkey are seen as terrorists to Turkey for decades. It would have to be a negotiated set of steps between the US and the Kurds and would presume that the US would be enforcing such action if the Kurds were to move permanently into Norther Iraq. Perhaps we could do so quietly but if Turkey got wind of it, we'd have a lot more to lose by Turkey shutting us out. They are the one ally in the region that we still have relatively good standing with other than Israel.

nothin' is ever easy in geopolitics.

maybe if we were to aid the Kurds, but help the turks with intelligence on the PKK... I dunno... there's gotta be room for a deal somewhere.

 

[votemout]

Imagine how much easier things would be if the US had a partner as powerful as Iran in the Middle East. Iran offered to assist America with the 'war on terror' prior to Bush declaring them as part of the Axis of Evil. Even afterwards, they practically begged to help.

Should they be taken up on the offer?

Engaging Iran | The Iran Primer

I know obama the muslim king would love to befriend Iran, I am sure he and the mullah speak daily now.

 

[notquiteright]

I know obama the muslim king would love to befriend Iran, I am sure he and the mullah speak daily now.

WOW :shock:

If you had only included Kenyan, community agitator, and socialist you'd have the perfect refrain for a CON country song.

Seems the CONs were quite content to sell weapons to the Iranians in the 80's, block intervention in Syria, raised hell about intervening in Libya, but of course had to go after Saddam in Iraq... :doh

We should have started normalizing relations with Iran back in the 90's, after all Uncle Ron sold them weapons in the 80's. Prior to our CIA backed coup, Iran was a democracy with good relations with the West, a model for a 'Muslim' nation entering the modern era.

Our arrogance, and ignorance now has Iran poised to be the savior of Iraq. Odds are pretty good Iran can stop the Sunni terrorists and thus terrify the Saudis. Maliki and Shi'ite Iraq doesn't need USofA help anymore, Saddam is gone, Iran is now the regional power, maybe just maybe the world will see our dear friends and allies the Saudis as enablers of terrorism through extremist Sunni groups.