Three shot dead at Afghanistan wedding reception over music being played

[stevecanuck]

It is a little more than that. And the hadiths play a much more central role- especially as the daily life of a Moslem goes- than non Moslems are led to believe. The Quran is believed by Moslems to be the literal word of Allah, and so is The Book.

But what is forgotten, or is glossed over by non Moslems, or maybe is deliberately not emphasised by Moslems to the aspirant is that a cardinal belief of Moslems is also that Mahomet is man perfect. He is the exemplary man. His every example is Law. He is to be emulated in everything. To know what Mahomet did in a certain situation, and to deliberately disregard it, is on the same level as a cardinal sin.

Which is where the hadiths came in. It was not just an idle compilation of the history of Mahomet. It was akin to Mahomet as Law Precedent. The hadiths are snippets of incidents of the life of Mahomet, which incidents can be used by Courts to decide cases, and to guide the individual Moslem in his daily life. And to compile the hadiths the early Moslems went about it meticulously. Witnesses had to attest to them. And the strongest cases were then compiled into various tomes.

It gets crazy. A Moslem will even seek guidance on exactly how to go to the toilet: what foot- right or left- to advance first in stepping inside a restroom, what hand to hold the little wee wee with, and how many times to shake the wee after peeing ROFLMAO

Disagreement over which hadiths are legitimate is a very large part of the schism between Sunni and Shia. One day I'll look into that more.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Well, that's hilarious. ISIS is dissing the Taliban because they're not as good at spreading Islam through terrorism as ISIS is. Brilliant.

No, not really.

The Taliban's interpretation of Islam doesn't hold up well scholarly; too much of it is based on a combination of Pashtun tribal codes and ethnic heritages that purists like ISIS have a field day tearing apart.

"The Wālī: The nationalist Taliban movement only has control of some regions of “Afghanistan,” nowhere else. As for ruling them by Allah’s law, then it does not do that. Rather, they rule by tribal customs and judge affairs in accordance with the desires and traditions of the people, traditions opposing the Islamic Sharī’ah."

Of course, the Taliban proclaim the opposite; that they swept aside old traditional Afghan ways in favor of Islamic rule, but it's a facade. The Taliban is too splintered as a group to field a unified and coherent ideology and doctrine, which makes it easy for a group like ISIS to pile up contradictions.

 

[Juin]

Disagreement over which hadiths are legitimate is a very large part of the schism between Sunni and Shia. One day I'll look into that more.

My understanding is that the split was over whether the line of succession remain in Mahomet's family or not.

 

[Chagos]

"Western" observers need to account for the fact that Islam never served well for a unifying "glue" that managed to present a universal threat to all other "infidel" people, societies or nations.

Where it initially succeeded in amalgamating the tribes of the Arab peninsula into a more functional group, that success was actually very short-lived and showed cracks in the cement almost from the outset.

Apart from the Sunni/Shia split already mentioned, the Abbasids deposing (and murdering) of the Ummayads, the subsequent internecine conflicts that brought the Fatimids to the top, the invasion and suppression of an already Muslim Iberia by firstly the Almoravids and then the Almohads (neither particularly Arab except by language) serve as just a few examples of how the great unity was always sabotaged by either family despotism or the very tribalism supposedly overcome (often enough both).

As such, the often cited Crusades could succeed only on account of not having met any such unified Islamic body, until a Kurdish Sultan cancelled the initial Christian victories that had been achieved against the Turks that, in turn, had previously vanquished the Arabs in the region.

And when one cut thru all the BS coming from the Royal House of today, the Sauds are no different in being just another tribe, albeit the dominant one.

To now cut this short, neither the Taliban nor IS are succeeding in forming the one-all-to-end-all Islamic society, nor will they ever.

Just like the Bible, by whichever of its books one finds convenient, never succeeded in forming a homogeneous Christian society that stood above tribalism and (later) nationalism to the exclusion of factions warring upon each other.

 

[Chagos]

I agree with everything you say about hadiths.

But, not so much on the verses. First, if a Muslim wants to follow only verses that promote peaceful coexistence, there are only half a dozen at most for them to cling to. Second, the evolution of Islam into a warrior religion is undeniable. Surah 9, which is the last except for a little 3-verse wrap up, is a call to arms. Verse 9:111 could not be more clear or explicit in telling Muslims that they must fight in order to get into heaven.

Kind of makes one wonder (certainly myself) who the hell needs hadiths if the Holy Book itself is already gospel.

Not to mention the abundance of scholars who themselves are Muslim but often disagree in their teachings.

Bit like Christians needing their priests to tell them how what is written in the Bible need be understood.

Difference being that those are usually sufficiently literate to read for themselves, while the Taliban are in majority completely illiterate and have to rely on what the Pakistan madrassah Sauds pounded into them.

 

[stevecanuck]

No, not really.

The Taliban's interpretation of Islam doesn't hold up well scholarly; too much of it is based on a combination of Pashtun tribal codes and ethnic heritages that purists like ISIS have a field day tearing apart.

"The Wālī: The nationalist Taliban movement only has control of some regions of “Afghanistan,” nowhere else. As for ruling them by Allah’s law, then it does not do that. Rather, they rule by tribal customs and judge affairs in accordance with the desires and traditions of the people, traditions opposing the Islamic Sharī’ah."

Of course, the Taliban proclaim the opposite; that they swept aside old traditional Afghan ways in favor of Islamic rule, but it's a facade. The Taliban is too splintered as a group to field a unified and coherent ideology and doctrine, which makes it easy for a group like ISIS to pile up contradictions.

100% gratuitous. Any actual examples?

 

[stevecanuck]

My understanding is that the split was over whether the line of succession remain in Mahomet's family or not.

That's my understanding too. I find it amusing that neither 'Allah' nor Mohamed saw that coming. All it would have taken to avoid the split is one clearly worded 'revelation', but apparently 'Allah' wasn't much of a forward thinker.

 

[MaryP]

Three shot dead at Afghanistan wedding reception over music being played

A Taliban government spokesman said that two of the three attackers had been arrested after the Friday incident but denied they were acting on behalf of the Islamist movement.

nypost.com

Three gunmen who claimed to be members of the Taliban shot dead three people attending a wedding in Afghanistan — because music was being played at the reception, according to a report.

A Taliban government spokesman said two of the three attackers had been arrested after the Friday incident but denied they were acting on behalf of the Islamist movement.

“Last night, at the wedding of Haji Malang Jan in Shamspur Mar Ghundi village of Nangarhar, three people who introduced themselves as Taliban entered the proceedings and [asked] that the music stop playing,” spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said Saturday, Agence France-Presse reported.
===============================================
And we wasted thousands of lives & billions in treasure in this worthless asshole? It will collapse in on itself & we should only watch.

Jack, shit like this happens everyday in America. Wake up.

 

[Jredbaron96]

100% gratuitous. Any actual examples?

Of the Taliban being splintered or of ISIS complaining about the Taliban being illiterate hicks?

 

[Juin]

That's my understanding too. I find it amusing that neither 'Allah' nor Mohamed saw that coming. All it would have taken to avoid the split is one clearly worded 'revelation', but apparently 'Allah' wasn't much of a forward thinker.

It is at times to escape the impression that religion is a scam.

 

[stevecanuck]

Kind of makes one wonder (certainly myself) who the hell needs hadiths if the Holy Book itself is already gospel.

Not to mention the abundance of scholars who themselves are Muslim but often disagree in their teachings.

Bit like Christians needing their priests to tell them how what is written in the Bible need be understood.

Difference being that those are usually sufficiently literate to read for themselves, while the Taliban are in majority completely illiterate and have to rely on what the Pakistan madrassah Sauds pounded into them.

Not only that, but why the need for endless tafsirs? After all, the Qur'an says, "So have I made the Qur'an easy in your own language", and, "the Qur'an, a guidance for the people". Apparently not.

 

[stevecanuck]

Of the Taliban being splintered or of ISIS complaining about the Taliban being illiterate hicks?

Of this: The Taliban's interpretation of Islam doesn't hold up well scholarly; too much of it is based on a combination of Pashtun tribal codes and ethnic heritages that purists like ISIS have a field day tearing apart.

 

[NatMorton]

Who hasn't wished for a fresh clip when somebody calls for "The Chicken Dance."

 

[stevecanuck]

Who hasn't wished for a fresh clip when somebody calls for "The Chicken Dance."

Yup, I hear ya.

 

[Juin]

Kind of makes one wonder (certainly myself) who the hell needs hadiths if the Holy Book itself is already gospel.

The hadiths are not so much to explain the Quran. The Quran itself has only a tiny portion on the life of Mahomet. It is the injunction that Mahomet, his life, his every deed, is Law; that he is man exemplary, and that his rulings and examples are Law that raised the necessity of the hadiths. Of course, the Quran has little on how Mahomet went to say the outhouse, so how is a Moslem supposed to emulate Mahomet if the Quran has nothing on that. It is the hadiths- basically witness testimonies of incidents from the life of Mahomet- that sought to address that. So some witness, or witnesses may testify that Allah's apostle, when he went to the toilet, would step in with his left leg first, and when he was done wee weeing would shake the little peepee thrice with left hand.

 

[Chagos]

The hadiths are not so much to explain the Quran. The Quran itself has only a tiny portion on the life of Mahomet. It is the injunction that Mahomet, his life, his every deed, is Law; that he is man exemplary, and that his rulings and examples are Law that raised the necessity of the hadiths. Of course, the Quran has little on how Mahomet went to say the outhouse, so how is a Moslem supposed to emulate Mahomet if the Quran has nothing on that. It is the hadiths- basically witness testimonies of incidents from the life of Mahomet- that sought to address that. So some witness, or witnesses may testify that Allah's apostle, when he went to the toilet, would step in with his left leg first, and when he was done wee weeing would shake the little peepee thrice with left hand.

That's all very well but does not assuage my wonderment.

If everything a devout Muslim need know is in the Qur'an (as Allah wills it and has told the Prophet), why does that book not mention the necessity of hadiths and tafsirs?

 

[yankintx]

- 47:4 "So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them ...".
"God could have taken vengeance upon them, but (He ordered armed struggle) to test some of you ...".
"Those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds".
- 47:20 through 47:23 "when a precise surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, you see those in whose hearts is hypocrisy looking at you with a look of one overcome by death... when the matter (preparation for Jihad) is resolved, then if they had been true to Allah [by fighting], it would have been better for them".
- 47:31 "We will surely test you until We make evident those who strive [wage jihad]".
- 47:35 "So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior".
- 22:58 "Those who emigrated for the cause of Allah and then were killed or died - Allah will surely provide for them a good provision".
- 49:15 "The believers ... strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah".
- 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them".
- 61:4 "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure".
- 61:10 through 61:13 "Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your property and your lives. He will admit you to Gardens. and other things you love, help from God and a nigh victory".
- 48:16 "You shall be called against a people possessed of great might to fight them".
- 48:29 "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers".
- 5:33 "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified".
- 5:35 - "O ye who believe! ... strive in His way".
- 5:54 "mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way".
- 9;5, "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
- 9:13 "Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first".
- 9:14 "Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands".
- 9:16 "Do you think that you will be left (as you are) while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive (for His cause)".
- 9:19 "strives in the cause of Allah".
- 9:20 "The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:29 "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]".
- 9:30 "The Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah ... May Allah destroy them".
- 9:36 "Fight against the disbelievers".
- 9:38 "What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?".
- 9:39 "If you do not go forth, He will punish you".
- 9:41 "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah".
- 9:44 "Those who believe in God and the Day of Judgment do not ask you whether they should fight for the cause of God".
- 9:45 "It is only those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and whose hearts are in doubt that ask your leave (to be exempted from Jihad)" [clarification added by Mohsin Khan translation].
- 9:52 "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)?".
- 9:73 "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them".
- 9:81 "they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the Cause of Allah''.
- 9:86 "Believe in Allah and strive hard along with His Messenger".
- 9:88 "But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:93 "The blameworthy ones are those who ask for exemption [from fighting] despite their ability".
- 9:111 "Surely Allah has bought from the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain".
- 9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you"

Feel better?

Written from Saudi Arabia, the custodian of Islam's holiest sites

I have been treated with nothing but respect by Saudis in the 4 years i lived here. And most Saudis are disgusted by the Taliban as it perverts the messege.

Allah be with you!!

 

[Jredbaron96]

Of this: The Taliban's interpretation of Islam doesn't hold up well scholarly; too much of it is based on a combination of Pashtun tribal codes and ethnic heritages that purists like ISIS have a field day tearing apart.

Pashtunwali predates Islam by several centuries and it denotes specific tribal customs by the Pashtun. You won't find the jirga, badal, or melmastia anywhere in the Koran, but they're the basis of how the Taliban operates.

ISIS isn't wrong when it says that the Taliban rule heavily based on their own ethnic traditions; they do, and those traditions are exactly the reason the Taliban has been able to maintain such a bastion of support among the Pashtun despite decades of war. The idea of "foreigners are invading our land and trying to change our way of life" is a very powerful recruitment tool.

 

[stevecanuck]

Feel better?

Written from Saudi Arabia, the custodian of Islam's holiest sites

I have been treated with nothing but respect by Saudis in the 4 years i lived here. And most Saudis are disgusted by the Taliban as it perverts the messege.

Allah be with you!!

Which changes what the Qur'an says how?

I spent 7 years in Egypt being treated well most of the time, which is why I was so surprised at the hatred in the Qur'an.

 

[yankintx]

Which changes what the Qur'an says how?

I spent 7 years in Egypt being treated well most of the time, which is why I was so surprised at the hatred in the Qur'an.

Did i dispute or endorse what you said?

Nope

 

[stevecanuck]

Did i dispute or endorse what you said?

Nope

So, it was just a drive-by?

 

[TypicalRussian]

Three shot dead at Afghanistan wedding reception over music being played

A Taliban government spokesman said that two of the three attackers had been arrested after the Friday incident but denied they were acting on behalf of the Islamist movement.

nypost.com

Three gunmen who claimed to be members of the Taliban shot dead three people attending a wedding in Afghanistan — because music was being played at the reception, according to a report.

A Taliban government spokesman said two of the three attackers had been arrested after the Friday incident but denied they were acting on behalf of the Islamist movement.

“Last night, at the wedding of Haji Malang Jan in Shamspur Mar Ghundi village of Nangarhar, three people who introduced themselves as Taliban entered the proceedings and [asked] that the music stop playing,” spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said Saturday, Agence France-Presse reported.
===============================================
And we wasted thousands of lives & billions in treasure in this worthless asshole? It will collapse in on itself & we should only watch.

what type of music?

 

[Bogan]

There are many Christians in this country would totally love to be like the Taliban and be able to install Christian law

Rubbish. The Old Testament Bible says to kill homosexuals and witches. If any Christian pastor told his flock that they must seek out homosexuals and witches and kill them, his flock would say "Are you nuts?" Fundamentalist Muslims are people like ISIS and The Taliban. Fundamentalist Christians are people like the Quakers or the Amish. No comparison.

 

[joluoto]

Rubbish. The Old Testament Bible says to kill homosexuals and witches. If any Christian pastor told his flock that they must seek out homosexuals and witches and kill them, his flock would say "Are you nuts?" Fundamentalist Muslims are people like ISIS and The Taliban. Fundamentalist Christians are people like the Quakers or the Amish. No comparison.

You'd be surprised how many Fundies would happily go on a killing spree if their Pastor told them to.

 

[Bogan]

Yes, I would. The primary difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity is a religion of peace, while Islam is a warriors religion which justifies imperial expansion.