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Thousand Oaks victims

Zalatix said:
Translation:

"I'd rather see a million kids die than see any gun control laws!"
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lying is a standard tactic of the anti gun left. We do know that the gun banning left only pretends its about saving lives, when in reality, it is about harassing people who don't buy into their agenda
 
CLAX1911 said:
How would any more gun control laws prevent children from being killed? The ones we have now don't do anything.
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they just spew lies because they are unwilling to explain why they really push for gun laws that ONLY harass honest gun owners
 
JoanDavis said:
Didn't trump sign an executive order allowing mentally ill people to possess / access guns? trump has blood on his hands ....AGAIN!
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No, in fact, he did not sign any such order.
 
JoanDavis said:
Didn't trump sign an executive order allowing mentally ill people to possess / access guns? trump has blood on his hands ....AGAIN!
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No. Please do some research.

"As the House Ways and Means Committee was sure to make clear, letters of support were received from ADAPT, which “urged Congress to use the Congressional Rule Act to repeal this rule“; from the American Association of People with Disabilities, which pressed Congress “to support a Congressional Review Act (CRA) resolution to disapprove the Final Rule issued by the Social Security Administration (SSA)”; from the ACLU, which pushed “members of the House of Representatives to support the resolution disapproving the final rule of the Social Security Administration”; from The Arc of the United States, which asked “Congress to act, through the CRA process, to disapprove this new rule”; from the Association of Mature American Citizens, which exhorted “Congress to quickly pass this Joint Resolution and restore the basic Second Amendment rights this rule has abridged”; from the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, which implored “Congress to act, through the CRA process, to disapprove this new rule and prevent the damage that it inflicts on the disability community”; and, in addition, from the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, the Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities, the Disability Law Center of Alaska, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, the National Association of County Behavioral Health and Developmental Disability Directors, the National Association for Rights Protection and Advocacy, the National Association for Rural Mental Health, the National Council on Disability, the National Council of Independent Living, the National Coalition of Mental Health Recovery, the National Disability Leadership Alliance, the National Disability Rights Network, the New York Association of Psychiatric Rehabilitation Services, and Safari Club International. All of them — every single one — urged that the rule be killed."

https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...round-check-system-or-give-guns-mentally-ill/

Here's the ACLU position:

"The ACLU and 23 national disability groups did not oppose this rule because we want more guns in our community. This is about more than guns. Adding more innocent Americans to the National Instant Criminal Background database because of a mental disability is a disturbing trend — one that could be applied to voting, parenting or other rights dearer than gun ownership. We opposed it because it would do little to stem gun violence but do much to harm our civil rights."

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/gun-control-laws-should-be-fair
 
Tom Horn said:
Eight Japanese survived both the fat man and little boy atomic detonations.
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now that is a glowing testament to their resiliency !
 
TurtleDude said:
they just spew lies because they are unwilling to explain why they really push for gun laws that ONLY harass honest gun owners
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I'm sorry, I don't believe they are just monsters. I believe they are indeed rational people that have a different point of view. You have to keep it in perspective.

I believe they're people and they want the violence to stop. But not having grown up around guns they don't have any perspective on the culture.

Politicians are a different story.
 
TurtleDude said:
stop lying. there is no proof "extended clips" (WTF IS THAT) made this possible. Standard capacity Glock 21 is 13 rounds. California Nanny State is 10 rounds....
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"What Is an Extended Pistol Magazine?
An extended pistol magazine attaches to your gun. It holds a number of bullets, so you can continue to shoot. Once the magazine is installed on the gun, all you have to do is fill it with bullets, just as you do when you load your gun. You can then shoot for as long as you have bullets in the extended magazine."


https://gunstoday.com/get-more-shooting-time-with-extended-pistol-magazines/


And yes, there is proof the gunman had one.

From the words of the county sheriff:


"...28-year-old Ian David Long, was found dead inside...County Sheriff Geoff Dean said....his only weapon was a legally purchased .45-caliber handgun, Dean said. Long added an extended magazine to the Glock gun, the sheriff said....'


https://abcnews.go.com/US/multiple-...ass-shooting-california-bar/story?id=59050130


...California law prevented the off duty cops in the bar from being armed. Once again, it was a gun free zone that an active killer chose...
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The officer killed was responding to the incident.


...this case shows a committed killer is immune from all the wet dream gun laws the scum bag politicians on California passed...
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The gunman bought the gun LEGALLY

See the above quote.

The only way to stop incidents like this is to ban ALL guns.


...under the stupid California laws, his standard issue magazine was "illegal" but someone willing to kill and die doing it isn't going to worry about that stupid law
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Correct

The only thing stupid here is the idea that passing half measure restrictions will do any good at all.

Just how many mass shootings will it take for you to understand ?

What states, in your opinion, have "sensible" gun laws....no doubt you have some other non-sensical reason why mass shootings happen in those states.


Just like you have NO explanation why the UK (pop 60 million) has had only ONE mass shooting since 1996.
Why is that do you think ????

Your silence is, as always, deafening.
 
Rich2018 said:
"What Is an Extended Pistol Magazine?
An extended pistol magazine attaches to your gun. It holds a number of bullets, so you can continue to shoot. Once the magazine is installed on the gun, all you have to do is fill it with bullets, just as you do when you load your gun. You can then shoot for as long as you have bullets in the extended magazine."


https://gunstoday.com/get-more-shooting-time-with-extended-pistol-magazines/


And yes, there is proof the gunman had one.

From the words of the county sheriff:


"...28-year-old Ian David Long, was found dead inside...County Sheriff Geoff Dean said....his only weapon was a legally purchased .45-caliber handgun, Dean said. Long added an extended magazine to the Glock gun, the sheriff said....'


https://abcnews.go.com/US/multiple-...ass-shooting-california-bar/story?id=59050130




The officer killed was responding to the incident.





The gunman bought the gun LEGALLY

See the above quote.

The only way to stop incidents like this is to ban ALL guns.





Correct

The only thing stupid here is the idea that passing half measure restrictions will do any good at all.

Just how many mass shootings will it take for you to understand ?

What states, in your opinion, have "sensible" gun laws....no doubt you have some other non-sensical reason why mass shootings happen in those states.


Just like you have NO explanation why the UK (pop 60 million) has had only ONE mass shooting since 1996.
Why is that do you think ????

Your silence is, as always, deafening.
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you admit that pistols cannot be banned as long as there is a second amendment

you admit that won't happen

so its mental masturbation to pretend someone who passed a background check and a waiting period wouldn't be able to get a gun

the "extended" (normal capacity) G21Mag is 13 rounds. the California Nanny Law Magazine is 10 rounds

prove the normal capacity magazine is why he was able to kill all those people and he wouldn't have been with just 10 round magazines/
 
Rich2018 said:
Just like you have NO explanation why the UK (pop 60 million) has had only ONE mass shooting since 1996.
Why is that do you think ????

Your silence is, as always, deafening.
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Are the types of guns used in the Cumbria shooting still in private ownership?
 
jet57 said:
I noticed that the gun forum was silent on this one too… But a different take here:

Thousand Oaks victims include college student and law enforcement officer

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/us/shooting-victims-thousand-oaks/index.html



And yet Again we get a mass shooting: extended clips made this one possible. An ex combat soldier with PTSD. THIS incident however has opened up a new issue; that of gun restraining orders. Such restraining orders require that if a gun owner is found to be unsafe in some manner, that his guns be confiscated… THIS is a way different sort of Federal Law if they have their way and one that walks the line of Big Gummit taking away your second amendment rights. But if it’s a people problem, then do you pro gun folks think that it is a way of handling people who shouldn’t have guns in the first place and if so, how does that square with your fears of Gummit confiscations and our right to keep and bear?
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Wow.. this is why you anti gunners just don't get any traction with logical people. "extended clips" made this possible???? WTF??.

Lets see.. you have a solder that has PTSD.. but you don't think the issue should be.. "how did he get PTSD and whats being done to prevent it"..

He had it.. and you don't think to ask.. "what was the treatment he was getting if ANY.. and is it the best treatment possible.

AND he was evaluated earlier by a social worker and found to be not a danger to himself of others... but obviously.. he continue to have problems.. and yet.. no question as to whether mental health services were available even though he was not an imminent threat.

OVER AND OVER again.. we see people with mental health problems that are ignored or do not have the ability to access mental health, or that the system simply failed in recognizing folks and getting them adequate treatment.

but you think its "the extended clip".. that caused him to go in and shoot people.

:doh

honestly.. you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
jaeger19 said:
Wow.. this is why you anti gunners just don't get any traction with logical people. "extended clips" made this possible???? WTF??.

Lets see.. you have a solder that has PTSD.. but you don't think the issue should be.. "how did he get PTSD and whats being done to prevent it"..

He had it.. and you don't think to ask.. "what was the treatment he was getting if ANY.. and is it the best treatment possible.

AND he was evaluated earlier by a social worker and found to be not a danger to himself of others... but obviously.. he continue to have problems.. and yet.. no question as to whether mental health services were available even though he was not an imminent threat.

OVER AND OVER again.. we see people with mental health problems that are ignored or do not have the ability to access mental health, or that the system simply failed in recognizing folks and getting them adequate treatment.

but you think its "the extended clip".. that caused him to go in and shoot people.

:doh

honestly.. you should be ashamed of yourself.
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jet cannot legally own magazines holding more than ten rounds. He has claimed they are "for warfare only". Bottom line-if he cannot legally own them, he will complain about any one else being able to own them
 
CLAX1911 said:
I'm sorry, I don't believe they are just monsters. I believe they are indeed rational people that have a different point of view. You have to keep it in perspective.

I believe they're people and they want the violence to stop. But not having grown up around guns they don't have any perspective on the culture.

Politicians are a different story.
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Yeah.. I would be inclined to agree with you.. having known a lot of NYC people and other city people when I lived in the big cities and in other parts of the world.

BUT.. then you have situations like with Jet.. and others were it has been repeatedly pointed out.. the facts regarding firearms etc.. and they PURPOSELY ignore the elephant in the room.. which was the persons mental health.. and that often times. these folks have come in contact with social workers etc.. and should have been gotten services..

But nope.. its not mental health..

It must be the extended magazine. I think they bear some responsibility for deliberately ignoring the real issue.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yeah.. I would be inclined to agree with you.. having known a lot of NYC people and other city people when I lived in the big cities and in other parts of the world.

BUT.. then you have situations like with Jet.. and others were it has been repeatedly pointed out.. the facts regarding firearms etc.. and they PURPOSELY ignore the elephant in the room.. which was the persons mental health.. and that often times. these folks have come in contact with social workers etc.. and should have been gotten services..

But nope.. its not mental health..

It must be the extended magazine. I think they bear some responsibility for deliberately ignoring the real issue.
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Well I agree yes they are ignoring facts. But they have been conditioned to do that. It's like explaining Evolution to a creationist or how gravity Works to someone who believes the Earth is flat.

Certain people will never be convinced they have bought the farm so to speak. The best thing to do with these people is not calling monsters not suggest that their brainwashed don't even say that they bought the farm. Just counter there points. You'll never convince them but other people will read it and other people are more reasonable.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Well I agree yes they are ignoring facts. But they have been conditioned to do that. It's like explaining Evolution to a creationist or how gravity Works to someone who believes the Earth is flat.

Certain people will never be convinced they have bought the farm so to speak. The best thing to do with these people is not calling monsters not suggest that their brainwashed don't even say that they bought the farm. Just counter there points. You'll never convince them but other people will read it and other people are more reasonable.
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Well in that I agree. BUT I do think that part of that is pointing out (for the benefit of other people).. how the anti's focus on guns.. gets in the way of real solutions.. like mental health access.
 
TurtleDude said:
stop lying. there is no proof "extended clips" (WTF IS THAT) made this possible. Standard capacity Glock 21 is 13 rounds. California Nanny State is 10 rounds.

California law prevented the off duty cops in the bar from being armed. Once again, it was a gun free zone that an active killer chose

This case shows a committed killer is immune from all the wet dream gun laws the scum bag politicians on California passed

He waited at least ten days before taking possession of the pistol after passing a background check

HE was actually interviewed by a crisis intervention team which cleared him

Under the stupid California laws, his standard issue magazine was "illegal" but someone willing to kill and die doing it isn't going to worry about that stupid law
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Thousand Oaks gunman used an extended magazine. Whether it was illegal depends on how many rounds it held - Los Angeles Times

Thousand Oaks gunman used an extended magazine. Whether it was illegal depends on how many rounds it held.

Long also had an extended magazine for ammunition, but the Sheriff’s Office said further analysis was needed to determine how many rounds it could hold.
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The truth was told. YOU just don't like it.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Do you want to talk about the eulogizing of victims, or do you want to talk about gun control....make up your mind.
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If you actually read the OP you'd know the answer. Try reading it this time and get back to me.
 
Bucky said:
I heard one of the victims was also a survivor of the vegas shooting.
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Yes he was: his mother is beside herself and screaming for gun control not thoughts and prayers.

As for the OP; do you think that a firearms restraining order violates the second amendment?
 
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