This map shows Trump won a majority vote in 3,084 of the 3,141 counties!!!!

[Master PO]

I asked for proof - you gave me more of your opinion backed up by nothing.

i gave it to you, its called the 17th amendment which was created to give representation to the people via the senate.

 

[haymarket]

i gave it to you, its called the 17th amendment which was created to give representation to the people via the senate.

The 17th Amendment does not prove anything other than it changed the way Senators were elected. The text of it says NOTHING about a change in representing the legislature to the people. It says NOTHING about that.

I asked you for proof of your claim made in a previous post that the Senate was at the behest of the legislature and not the people. You have yet to offer anything verifiable to back this up other than your own opinion and your own rather unique interpretation of history. In other words - NO VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE of your claim.

Again - Can you explain how a Senator can represent the state without representing the people who comprise the state? If you can successfully do that - I will be happy to admit you have proven me wrong.

And tell me again why you are so obsessed with arguing about a system that we have not had for a full century now?

 

[Master PO]

The 17th Amendment does not prove anything other than it changed the way Senators were elected.

thats correct.. it moved senators from being Direct elected by the state legislatures to Direct election by the people, so it moved representation over to the people away from the state legislatures ...and this is fact

 

[haymarket]

thats correct.. it moved senators from being Direct elected by the state legislatures to Direct election by the people, so it moved representation over to the people away from the state legislatures ...and this is fact

NO - that is stuff you are making up in your words. The Amendment says nothing about a change in who the Senator represents. Nothing.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.[1]

It says NOTHING about no longer representing the legislature and now representing the people. You made that stuff up.

 

[haymarket]

i gave it to you, its called the 17th amendment which was created to give representation to the people via the senate.

So is it your opinion that every Senator in office since the 17th Amendment took over the process no longer represents the legislature of the state but now represents the PEOPLE of the state?

 

[Master PO]

So is it your opinion that every Senator in office since the 17th Amendment took over the process no longer represents the legislature of the state but now represents the PEOPLE of the state?

do your 2 senators go to your state house and confide with the legislature about whats going on in d.c....No

 

[Master PO]

NO - that is stuff you are making up in your words. The Amendment says nothing about a change in who the Senator represents. Nothing.



It says NOTHING about no longer representing the legislature and now representing the people. You made that stuff up.

the 17th amendment changed representation from the state legislatures over to the people, this is fact.

 

[haymarket]

do your 2 senators go to your state house and confide with the legislature about whats going on in d.c....No

I do not understand you asking me a question before you give me your answer to my question. Again

So is it your opinion that every Senator in office since the 17th Amendment took over the process no longer represents the legislature of the state but now represents the PEOPLE of the state?

 

[haymarket]

the 17th amendment changed representation from the state legislatures over to the people, this is fact.

The 17th Amendment does NOT say that and I gave you the text of it. You made that up.

In fact, nowhere in the original Constitution, Article I, Section 3 - does it say the Senators represent the legislature and NOT the people as you claim. Its not there.

 

[Master PO]

I do not understand you asking me a question before you give me your answer to my question. Again

So is it your opinion that every Senator in office since the 17th Amendment took over the process no longer represents the legislature of the state but now represents the PEOPLE of the state?

it is a fact.... that senators no longer represents the state legislatures because they are direct elected by the people making them the representatives of the people

 

[Master PO]

The 17th Amendment does NOT say that and I gave you the text of it. You made that up.

In fact, nowhere in the original Constitution, Article I, Section 3 - does it say the Senators represent the legislature and NOT the people as you claim. Its not there.

Section. 3.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

 

[haymarket]

it is a fact.... that senators no longer represents the state legislatures because they are direct elected by the people making them the representatives of the people

No that is your opinion that they represented the state legislature in the first place. You offered no verifiable evidence for that claim that a US Senator can and does represent a state legislature without representing the people who comprise the state.

That is your claim - that is your opinion and you have not supported it with anything but your opinion that you keep calling fact but cannot independently prove it as fact.

I ask you again for at least the third time now

is it your opinion that every Senator in office since the 17th Amendment took over the process no longer represents the legislature of the state but now represents the PEOPLE of the state?

 

[haymarket]

Section. 3.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

Nobody is arguing as to how they were chosen.

That language says nothing about your claim that they represent the state legislature and not the people who actually comprise the state.

 

[Master PO]

No that is your opinion that they represented the state legislature in the first place. You offered no verifiable evidence for that claim that a US Senator can and does represent a state legislature without representing the people who comprise the state.

That is your claim - that is your opinion and you have not supported it with anything but your opinion that you keep calling fact but cannot independently prove it as fact.

I ask you again for at least the third time now

is it your opinion that every Senator in office since the 17th Amendment took over the process no longer represents the legislature of the state but now represents the PEOPLE of the state?

nope! its fact

 

[Master PO]

Nobody is arguing as to how they were chosen.

That language says nothing about your claim that they represent the state legislature and not the people who actually comprise the state.

when the state legislatures direct elect someone when that person is there representative, ..that is the basics of represenative government

 

[Master PO]

The Senate

Independent Journal
Wednesday, February 27, 1788
[James Madison]


Federalist 62- It is recommended by the double advantage of favoring a select appointment, and of giving to the State governments such an agency in the formation of the federal government as must secure the authority of the former, and may form a convenient link between the two systems.

 

[haymarket]

it is a fact.... that senators no longer represents the state legislatures because they are direct elected by the people making them the representatives of the people

You have provided no proof - other than your own opinion - that the Senator did represent the state legislature.

Do you agree that since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators represent the people and NOT the state legislature regardless if they ever did or not?

 

[haymarket]

when the state legislatures direct elect someone when that person is there representative, ..that is the basics of represenative government

Again - that is your opinion. Do you agree that since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators represent the people and NOT the state legislature regardless if they ever did or not?

 

[Master PO]

You have provided no proof - other than your own opinion - that the Senator did represent the state legislature.

Do you agree that since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators represent the people and NOT the state legislature regardless if they ever did or not?

provided plenty

 

[haymarket]

The Senate

Independent Journal
Wednesday, February 27, 1788
[James Madison]


Federalist 62- It is recommended by the double advantage of favoring a select appointment, and of giving to the State governments such an agency in the formation of the federal government as must secure the authority of the former, and may form a convenient link between the two systems.

That does NOT say that US Senators represent the legislature who appoints them and NOT the people of the state.

 

[Master PO]

Again - that is your opinion. Do you agree that since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators represent the people and NOT the state legislature regardless if they ever did or not?

fact!


favoring a select appointment, and of giving to the State governments such an agency in the formation of the federal government

proven by the father of the constitution james madison

 

[haymarket]

provided plenty

Your own opinion is not plenty.

Do you agree that since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators represent the people and NOT the state legislature regardless if they ever did or not?

 

[haymarket]

fact!


favoring a select appointment, and of giving to the State governments such an agency in the formation of the federal government

proven by the father of the constitution james madsion

That does NOT say the Senator represents the state legislature and NOT the people who comprise the State. And more importantly - nothing in Article I Section says that nor does the 17th Amendment say that.

All Madison is talking about is the apportionment and the role of state government in that appointment. It says nothing about who the Senator represents.

Do you agree that since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators represent the people and NOT the state legislature regardless if they ever did or not?

 

[Master PO]

That does NOT say that US Senators represent the legislature who appoints them and NOT the people of the state.

favoring a select appointment, and of giving to the State governments such an agency IN the federal government

proved again!

 

[Master PO]

Your own opinion is not plenty.

Do you agree that since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators represent the people and NOT the state legislature regardless if they ever did or not?

proved over and over!