This just gets better every day....

[ludin]

I could be wrong but the chart seems to show less hospitals closing as compared to ten years ago. But that might be because there are less hospitals to close.

Doctors today specialize and as a consequence there are less general practioners today than there were ten or twenty years ago. That put the burden on hospitals to fill the void.

:doh did you not read the chart heading?

It says annual changes in acute care hospitals participating in medicare program.

If it is going down it means that less hospitals are participating in medicare. which is also true. doctors and hospitals have been reducing their participation in both medicare and medicaid. the reason being it costs them more to treat than what they get in payment.

they can't afford to operate that way anymore so they drop out of the programs. this all has to due with government and how they pay on those programs and the length of time it takes to get a payment from them.

 

[Sammy]

most people that complain about not having money if looked at their budgets have expenses that they can do without but don't.
you have no clue about investing.

is it my fault they have poor health and massive pains? nope it isn't.
how am i rich or spoiled for never having issues in getting medical care? i pay for insurance i have insurance and when i have to go to the doctor i have never had issues.

no one keeps you poor but you. as is said blaming other people that do not affect you in any way for your life is wrong. no one is forcing you into a low paying job.

i have worked plenty of 10-12 dollar jobs. i got sick of it. i went back to school i needed a 4 year degree instead of 2. i got in with a good company. i learned their systems i performed really well. i got promoted. i kept learning and learning and growing my skills.

i got promoted again. now i work from home. i get to travel on projects. i have 1 certification already and will be getting another one sometime this year.
i am being considered for our companies leadership program.

i didn't get their whining about what other people have and i didn't. what other people have or don't have doesn't affect me. the only thing that affects me is the choices that i make for the better or worse.

I have many clues about investing I just have no motivation because I know the consequence it has on American citizens, if I invested it would be on a small business as I seek a community not a monopoly. Its really great you sleep so well at night knowing you got your trophy. I have a suggestion on where you can store it.

 

[ludin]

I have many clues about investing I just have no motivation because I know the consequence it has on American citizens, if I invested it would be on a small business as I seek a community not a monopoly. Its really great you sleep so well at night knowing you got your trophy. I have a suggestion on where you can store it.

so you have no motivation to make more money then don't blame other people that do. yes the consequence of investing is that you make more money than you could otherwise just working. the other consequence is that companies then use that money to expand and grow.

monopolies do not exist and are illegal i assume you know that.

i sleep very well knowing that i have worked hard and did what i had to do in order to make a future for me and my family. i sleep well knowing that i have made good choices and the bad choices i have made i have been able to correct.

by next year i will just have my student loans and a mortgage as debt and that is it.
me and the wife have paid off 2 cars and 2 credit cards in the past 5 years for a total of about 30k dollars or more.

we have 1 credit card that will be paid off next year and then i just have my student loans and mortgage.

sorry you are jealous and angry that other people are successful. maybe you should look at what they did then you to can share in the success. if you refuse to then stop complaining about it. you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[Woodman909]

Doesnt work out that way in the rest of the world, in fact, average life span is better, and increasing more quickly in UHC countries.

Someone told me once that the fewer McDonalds you find in a country, the longer the life span. It may be conjecture, I'm looking for the site now.

 

[Samhain]

We were talking about charities established to pay for E.R. care for the uninsured: a stipulation mandated by Ronald Reagan mandated. If thus charity funds run out of money, is it Obama's fault? It's a yes or no question. Please keep in mind Obama became president in 2009 and Cobra was passed in the 1980's, so this shouldn't be a difficult question.

y/n

Again, who said COBRA was Obama's fault? You really are projecting here. Nothing in the ACA changed how ERs treat or refuse treatment of uninsured patients.

 

[mak2]

In evidence base medicine the focus is on first a nutritional consult, in a profit based system it is on selling them simvastatin. If they are noncomplant with that, a CABG is big money. Completely different focus.

Someone told me once that the fewer McDonalds you find in a country, the longer the life span. It may be conjecture, I'm looking for the site now.

 

[sangha]

Again, who said COBRA was Obama's fault? You really are projecting here. Nothing in the ACA changed how ERs treat or refuse treatment of uninsured patients.

Actually, ACA cut payments to ER's that treat the uninsured as as the articles linked in the OP show, that has definitely had an effect on how ER's treat of refuse to treat the uninsured.

 

[Sammy]

so you have no motivation to make more money then don't blame other people that do. yes the consequence of investing is that you make more money than you could otherwise just working. the other consequence is that companies then use that money to expand and grow.

monopolies do not exist and are illegal i assume you know that.

i sleep very well knowing that i have worked hard and did what i had to do in order to make a future for me and my family. i sleep well knowing that i have made good choices and the bad choices i have made i have been able to correct.

by next year i will just have my student loans and a mortgage as debt and that is it.
me and the wife have paid off 2 cars and 2 credit cards in the past 5 years for a total of about 30k dollars or more.

we have 1 credit card that will be paid off next year and then i just have my student loans and mortgage.

sorry you are jealous and angry that other people are successful. maybe you should look at what they did then you to can share in the success. if you refuse to then stop complaining about it. you have no one to blame but yourself.

As I said I WOULD invest in a small company because it supports a community, I have no motivation to keep poor people poor. So a two year degree isn't enough? How long will it take for a 4 year degree not to be enough? The longer they keep you in school the more you will have to owe. You are the investment of the monopoly that is the American system. I don't want a yacht. I don't want a mansion. I don't want anything but what is required to live happily on this Earth. I actually feel bad for you because your life is now owned by this system. Your loans are that insurance to keep you plugging along on this path of destruction.

 

[MMC]

It just gets better everyday.

Biden: 'We may not get to 7 million' by Obamacare deadline.....

Vice President Joe Biden acknowledged on Wednesday that it will be hard to reach the target on the number of people signing up for health insurance by a looming March 31 deadline for Obamacare enrollment.....snip~

Biden: 'We may not get to 7 million' by Obamacare deadline

 

[reinoe]

I would think that not all moochers are right wing. I have no stats or numbers to back that up, it's just a gut feeling.

Well this particular story happened in Georgia so we can guess.

 

[joG]

It just gets better everyday.

Biden: 'We may not get to 7 million' by Obamacare deadline.....

Vice President Joe Biden acknowledged on Wednesday that it will be hard to reach the target on the number of people signing up for health insurance by a looming March 31 deadline for Obamacare enrollment.....snip~

Biden: 'We may not get to 7 million' by Obamacare deadline

Isn't it good to have a realist in the second job.

 

[Moot]

:doh did you not read the chart heading?

It says annual changes in acute care hospitals participating in medicare program.

If it is going down it means that less hospitals are participating in medicare. which is also true. doctors and hospitals have been reducing their participation in both medicare and medicaid. the reason being it costs them more to treat than what they get in payment.

they can't afford to operate that way anymore so they drop out of the programs. this all has to due with government and how they pay on those programs and the length of time it takes to get a payment from them.

The chart doesn't show a total for all medicare participating hospitals...only those that opened or closed in a particular year. So it would be difficult to say just how many hospitals out there accept medicare and how many don't from that chart without knowing a how many hospitals in total there are. However, what the chart does show are trends. TRENDS....such as during the mid 80s and again during the mid 2000s there were an abundant of hospital closures, then in the mid 1990s it slowed to a trickle...just like it seems to be now. I see a trend...do you?

 

[ludin]

As I said I WOULD invest in a small company because it supports a community, I have no motivation to keep poor people poor. So a two year degree isn't enough? How long will it take for a 4 year degree not to be enough? The longer they keep you in school the more you will have to owe. You are the investment of the monopoly that is the American system. I don't want a yacht. I don't want a mansion. I don't want anything but what is required to live happily on this Earth. I actually feel bad for you because your life is now owned by this system. Your loans are that insurance to keep you plugging along on this path of destruction.

LOL i can't believe people actually believe this non-sense.

you can only invest in a small company if they issue stock. on top of that you put your money in great risk doing that. most small community businesses do not issue stock.
yet you don't want to do anything to improve your financial situation so there you have it you will continue to cry as other people pass you by.
nope the investment was in my future and it is paying off.

i am going to take it you either only have a 2 year degree if that given your hatred of college then complain why you can't make more.
if you at least graduate high school you can make about 18k-20k a year.
if you have at least a 2 year degree you can get 25-30k a year
if you have a 4 year degree you can hit about 45k a year or more starting out depending on field and experience.

as i as i said the only one keeping you poor is you and no one else.

no one said anything about a yacht or mansion those are strawman arguments.

you don't want anything that is required to make a decent living but then want to whine and cry and complain that other people have more than you. as i said it isn't them it is you. you have made a choice now you have to live with that choice.

other people chose to make better choices than you did.

actually those loans will be paid off, i have a full career with my company in which most people retire from the company. i get bonuses and enjoy time with my family.
my wife doesn't have to work anymore. so no destruction here.

 

[ludin]

The chart doesn't show a total for all medicare participating hospitals...only those that opened or closed in a particular year. So it would be difficult to say just how many hospitals out there accept medicare and how many don't from that chart without knowing a how many hospitals in total there are. However, what the chart does show are trends. TRENDS....such as during the mid 80s and again during the mid 2000s there were an abundant of hospital closures, then in the mid 1990s it slowed to a trickle...just like it seems to be now. I see a trend...do you?

that chart doesn't say anything about opening or closing hospitals. it only shows the hospitals not accepting medicare.

 

[Moot]

that chart doesn't say anything about opening or closing hospitals. it only shows the hospitals not accepting medicare.

The chart says "opened" and "closed" in the top right corner. Opened and closed hospitals are what the bars in the graph represent. It shows how many hospitals opened and or accepted medicare and how many closed in a particular year over a ten year period. It does seem that more hospitals accept medicare as opposed to those that are closing or don't. The chart shows that 2000 and 2001 were the only years that didn't.

From the website....

"The Medicare Payment Advisory Commission [MedPAC] publishes annual data on the number of acute care hospitals participating in the Medicare program that have closed [or opened]. Since most acute care hospitals participate in Medicare, the data is useful for overall closure trends.....

https://aharesourcecenter.wordpress.com/tag/how-many-hospitals-have-closed/



As long as the trend shows that more hospitals are opening than closing I'm not going to worry....too much. In my urban neck of the woods there are at least six or seven hospitals maybe more in a twenty mile radius. But folks who live in rural areas have to travel to get to a good medical care facility...or in the event of an emergency get air transported in. They also tend to be the uninsured.

 

[Kal'Stang]

when you spend twice as much...

Still not bad. Thats 133 other countries that either have worse health care or worse payments or a combo of the two.

 

[Sammy]

LOL i can't believe people actually believe this non-sense.

you can only invest in a small company if they issue stock. on top of that you put your money in great risk doing that. most small community businesses do not issue stock.
yet you don't want to do anything to improve your financial situation so there you have it you will continue to cry as other people pass you by.
nope the investment was in my future and it is paying off.

i am going to take it you either only have a 2 year degree if that given your hatred of college then complain why you can't make more.
if you at least graduate high school you can make about 18k-20k a year.
if you have at least a 2 year degree you can get 25-30k a year
if you have a 4 year degree you can hit about 45k a year or more starting out depending on field and experience.

as i as i said the only one keeping you poor is you and no one else.

no one said anything about a yacht or mansion those are strawman arguments.

you don't want anything that is required to make a decent living but then want to whine and cry and complain that other people have more than you. as i said it isn't them it is you. you have made a choice now you have to live with that choice.

other people chose to make better choices than you did.

actually those loans will be paid off, i have a full career with my company in which most people retire from the company. i get bonuses and enjoy time with my family.
my wife doesn't have to work anymore. so no destruction here.

Thank you for proving my point that corporations see no value in a community environment. A local and social investment is what makes us HUMAN. A word you seem to be unfamiliar with as most corporations are. I would invest my time and "earnings" on my community, my neighbors, and what will be left for those when I am gone. In my city like most unemployment is super high, and the economy is super low. There are people with doctorate degrees unable to find work. Doctors are doing LESS then working for free. They simply just aren't working at all, and still in debt. I will try to put it this way.

As long as this exists...

So will this

•15.9 million children lived in food insecure households in 2012.[ii]
•20% or more of the child population in 37 states and D.C. lived in food insecure households in 2011, according to the most recent data available. New Mexico (30.6%) and the District of Columbia (30.0%) had the highest rates of children in households without consistent access to food.

•
In 2012, 46.5 million people (15.0 percent) were in poverty.

•In 2012, 26.5 million (13.7 percent) of people ages 18-64 were in poverty.
•In 2012, 16.1 million (21.8 percent) children under the age of 18 were in poverty.
•In 2012, 3.9 million (9.1 percent) seniors 65 and older were in poverty.
•The overall poverty rate according to the Supplemental Poverty Measure is 16.1%, as compared with the official poverty rate of 15.1%. [ii]
•Under the Supplemental Poverty Measure, there are 49.7 million people living in poverty, 3.1 million more than are represented by the official poverty measure (46.5 million).

 

[ludin]

Thank you for proving my point that corporations see no value in a community environment. A local and social investment is what makes us HUMAN. A word you seem to be unfamiliar with as most corporations are. I would invest my time and "earnings" on my community, my neighbors, and what will be left for those when I am gone. In my city like most unemployment is super high, and the economy is super low. There are people with doctorate degrees unable to find work. Doctors are doing LESS then working for free. They simply just aren't working at all, and still in debt. I will try to put it this way.

As long as this exists...

So will this

•15.9 million children lived in food insecure households in 2012.[ii]
•20% or more of the child population in 37 states and D.C. lived in food insecure households in 2011, according to the most recent data available. New Mexico (30.6%) and the District of Columbia (30.0%) had the highest rates of children in households without consistent access to food.

•
In 2012, 46.5 million people (15.0 percent) were in poverty.

•In 2012, 26.5 million (13.7 percent) of people ages 18-64 were in poverty.
•In 2012, 16.1 million (21.8 percent) children under the age of 18 were in poverty.
•In 2012, 3.9 million (9.1 percent) seniors 65 and older were in poverty.
•The overall poverty rate according to the Supplemental Poverty Measure is 16.1%, as compared with the official poverty rate of 15.1%. [ii]
•Under the Supplemental Poverty Measure, there are 49.7 million people living in poverty, 3.1 million more than are represented by the official poverty measure (46.5 million).

if you want to put it that way
if you have a roof over your head, 3 meals a day, a car to drive, electric and plumbing then you are one of the top 15% richest people in the world.

you are the exact person that you say you don't like.

you choose to live a certain way then you can't complain with other people do better and have more than you do. you have no one to blame but yourself for how you live. if you chose to improve your life then you could.

actually most corporations do quite a bit. my company has setup hundreds of computer labs for the boys and girls club among other charitable events.

yep money has always existed in one form or another.

 

[ludin]

Still not bad. Thats 133 other countries that either have worse health care or worse payments or a combo of the two.

Yea i would much rather be in the US for medical than china or cuba that is for sure.

 

[Perotista]

Why should the exchange plans, many of which are subsidized by the govt, provide coverage for the most expensive providers? I can't speak for you but I believe in the old adage "You get what you pay for"



The consolidation of the health care industry has been going on for a lot longer than ACA. By having a lot of patients, health providers can have a lot more leverage when negotiating with the insurers over reimbursement rates for their services

As far as Medicaid being insufficient, the solution to that problem is to increase the funding for Medicaid so that its' reimbursement rates are sufficient.

You get what you pay for is true. but there are folks around here shocked they can no longer to to those hospitals. Then it is like i said, instad of going to one 5 miles from your home, not some have to go 50 or more.

As for the hospital chains buying up other hospitals that was kind of a shock. Now a lot of the county hospitals now belong to one of the huge hospital chains and you county hospital was bought up by Emory, Piedmont or Well Care, guess what. If you have Obamacare no can go there. Here is where that 50 mile trip or more comes into play.

I agree with you on medicaid, something needs to be done to the reimbursement rate or soon medicaid will be nothing more than a worthless piece of paper or should I say insurance card.

 

[Wiseone]

You could also make the case that the food industry should be about feeding people, not making a profit. The building industry should be about sheltering people, not making a profit.

Where would it end?

The slippery slope argument is stupid, it basically implies that there are only two options in any scenario either one extreme or the other, either we go nowhere or we go all the way. That doesn't reflect reality. Also the government has taken a similar view of the food industry, which is why we the have the Farm Bill that helps control prices of certain goods and provides food stamps for those who cannot afford all their food. It doesn't work perfectly obviously, but the government has taken that view about food. Also construction is not just about sheltering people, as is evident by all commercial construction so that's a stupid argument.

Its wonderful that you feel that way. You should feel absolutely free and absolutely committed to going through the expense time and sacrifice to become a medical provider and NOT make a profit. You should also check your military retirement packages and make sure you are not in ANY way invested in big pharm, med, or for that matter oil and energy.

Why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over again? You can STILL BE PAID WELL FOR YOUR WORK. Do I need to say it again? I guess I do, YOU CAN STILL BE PAID WELL FOR YOUR WORK. One more time maybe? Alright since you're having trouble with it I'll lay it out very well, IF YOU INVEST A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY IN BECOMING A PROVIDER YOU CAN STILL BE PAID VERY WELL FOR YOUR WORK. Got it?

Also why would I want to take my money out of Big Pharm or oil and energy? I have no problems with the energy industry, and just because I don't like how healthcare is run doesn't mean I will refuse to participate or invest, that's just silly. Its not a perfect system but its not so bad that I'll just refuse to be involved. That seems to be a typically conservative reaction, if you don't like something take your ball and go home, refuse to play unless you get everything you exactly want. But no I'm more interested in making things work even if I don't like everything about the design rather than pouting like a spoiled child.

That would be a slaughter of the old and poor.

No it wouldn't.

If part of the reason they closed is low Medicaid reimbursement rates why would expanding the number of people on Medicaid be a solution? How is treating more people with reimbursements that don't cover the costs a way to stay open?

When you take the profit out of a hospital for example, you lose the mark up and desire to order tests that aren't required and that reduces medicaid costs

Are you single? What rank are you? I've rarely heard of a member of our services not complain of the little they make. Also our military IS socialistic in nature. No one goes into the military to make a profit. They do go into the medical field however to make a profit. Also you can't compare an organization that is run by the Government to private companies/individuals. Its an apples and oranges comparison. The way the two are set up and brings in money are completely different.

Its a good sentimentality to think that no one should make a profit providing healthcare. But that is all it is. A sentimentality. Until we get to the point technologically and socially where we are living in a Star Trek type world and not have money...well...good luck on that. Profit will always be a factor. Unless we go to socialism in which case you can kiss your freedoms away.

Yes no one goes into the military to become rich, which is a good thing, but you get paid enough to build savings and live well. Speaking of the military, we have our own entirely government provided healthcare system, VA hospitals, base hospitals, etc that provide just about any kind of care you need to any military member or their family.

Single payer can work, it works in every other developed nation on Earth, how can it be said it can't work here

 

[Sammy]

if you want to put it that way
if you have a roof over your head, 3 meals a day, a car to drive, electric and plumbing then you are one of the top 15% richest people in the world.

you are the exact person that you say you don't like.

you choose to live a certain way then you can't complain with other people do better and have more than you do. you have no one to blame but yourself for how you live. if you chose to improve your life then you could.

actually most corporations do quite a bit. my company has setup hundreds of computer labs for the boys and girls club among other charitable events.

yep money has always existed in one form or another.

Again I did not create these systems to keep the poor, and yes your right. Im more then grateful to God and the people in my life for what I was given. This wasn't the issue and for some reason you think I consider this a personal issue. I see a national problem not a personal one, I just am subject to it as well. Debates involving the energy crisis conclude a community system is the only answer, as its self sufficient and independently involved in its managing and maintenance. As this was the goal of our declaration of independence after all. A strong and healthy nation, built from independence, equal to your neighbor, and as one nation.

Look up "peak oil". Then what after oil? The coal already polluting our skies? What are we going to rob and imbalance from our Earth next to keep the hunt of greed?

 

[code1211]

I actually we need to go to a singe payer healthcare system.

If we had stayed with what we had and initiated a small program for those who had pre-existing conditions or were uninsurable due to conditions that forced very high premiums, that would have been a good approach.

The way this was done was corrupt and corrupting. Anyone who voted for this is exposed as the lying thief that he/she is. Obamacare is the act of throwing out the baby with the bath water and dousing the campfire in the process.

We are all completely and truly screwed.

Single payer? That still accomplishes everything that this does except that the people who have done nothing correctly in this abortion will be charged with doing still more incorrectly.

The farther from government my healthcare or any other part of my life can get, the better I like it.

 

[VanceMack]

The slippery slope argument is stupid, it basically implies that there are only two options in any scenario either one extreme or the other, either we go nowhere or we go all the way. That doesn't reflect reality. Also the government has taken a similar view of the food industry, which is why we the have the Farm Bill that helps control prices of certain goods and provides food stamps for those who cannot afford all their food. It doesn't work perfectly obviously, but the government has taken that view about food. Also construction is not just about sheltering people, as is evident by all commercial construction so that's a stupid argument.





Why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over again? You can STILL BE PAID WELL FOR YOUR WORK. Do I need to say it again? I guess I do, YOU CAN STILL BE PAID WELL FOR YOUR WORK. One more time maybe? Alright since you're having trouble with it I'll lay it out very well, IF YOU INVEST A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY IN BECOMING A PROVIDER YOU CAN STILL BE PAID VERY WELL FOR YOUR WORK. Got it?

Also why would I want to take my money out of Big Pharm or oil and energy? I have no problems with the energy industry, and just because I don't like how healthcare is run doesn't mean I will refuse to participate or invest, that's just silly. Its not a perfect system but its not so bad that I'll just refuse to be involved. That seems to be a typically conservative reaction, if you don't like something take your ball and go home, refuse to play unless you get everything you exactly want. But no I'm more interested in making things work even if I don't like everything about the design rather than pouting like a spoiled child.



No it wouldn't.



When you take the profit out of a hospital for example, you lose the mark up and desire to order tests that aren't required and that reduces medicaid costs



Yes no one goes into the military to become rich, which is a good thing, but you get paid enough to build savings and live well. Speaking of the military, we have our own entirely government provided healthcare system, VA hospitals, base hospitals, etc that provide just about any kind of care you need to any military member or their family.

Single payer can work, it works in every other developed nation on Earth, how can it be said it can't work here

So...for the record...it IS OK to profit off of healthcare. PHEW...that clears everything up.

 

[The Man]

The slippery slope argument is stupid, it basically implies that there are only two options in any scenario either one extreme or the other, either we go nowhere or we go all the way. That doesn't reflect reality. Also the government has taken a similar view of the food industry, which is why we the have the Farm Bill that helps control prices of certain goods and provides food stamps for those who cannot afford all their food. It doesn't work perfectly obviously, but the government has taken that view about food. Also construction is not just about sheltering people, as is evident by all commercial construction so that's a stupid argument.

You dismiss it as 'stupid' because it doesn't agree with your view. Slippery slope aside, how does a government tell one industry that they're not allowed to turn a profit, but other industries can? And why would anyone in their right mind invest money into something that isn't allowed to profit? That sounds like 'scary bad' socialism to me, the stuff that Cuba and Venezuela are made of.

Also, by building industry (not 'construction' industry), I specifically meant house building industry, although commercial buildings are built to shelter as well. Don't be stupid.