• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

This is what the Democratic Party would have done to anyone who does not totally submit

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,093
Reaction score
7,915
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You keep thinking that, Marxism as a kind form of government that pets kittens and mends the broken wings of birds. Give that bullshit a rest. Marxism killed orders of magnitude more people than the Nazis ever did; and neither are good in any way. Democrats ultimately wants a Marxist revolution in America, and are hell bent on making it happen. End of story.
You respond to a post that is 7 MONTHS OLD and this is all you came up with?
Your same old GOP/I Love Trump horseshit?
And you think Democrats are Marxists?
Your Orange 🍊 Hero kissed Putin’s wretched ass publicly in front of the entire world for 4 years, with the support of the entire GOP and his base, and he is not pro-Russian?
This tacit and inapplicable name calling is all you could come up with in 210 days?
Seriously?
What a joke your lame and late post is.
 

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,093
Reaction score
7,915
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I'm curious...

If the label, Fascism, cannot be used, what label do we put on far-left, authoritarian globalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy?
Oh God - another one.
See post #26.
Stop wasting my time and DISMISS YOURSELF.
With prejudice.
Cripe this is unbelievable
 

GDViking

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
18,534
Reaction score
10,747
Location
SW Wisconsin
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Oh God - another one.
See post #26.
Stop wasting my time and DISMISS YOURSELF.
With prejudice.
Cripe this is unbelievable
I always find it hilarious when conservatives show their complete ignorance in just.basic political science.

It's entertaining watching them claim that fascism is a left Leaning ideology, and it's even better when they claim fascism and socialism are one and tbe same.

Once and for all fascism and socialism are exact polar opposites. PERIOD...
 

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,093
Reaction score
7,915
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I always find it hilarious when conservatives show their complete ignorance in just.basic political science.

It's entertaining watching them claim that fascism is a left Leaning ideology, and it's even better when they claim fascism and socialism are one and tbe same.

Once and for all fascism and socialism are exact polar opposites. PERIOD...
Yup, it is stunning.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
69,678
Reaction score
27,430
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Oh God - another one.
See post #26.
Stop wasting my time and DISMISS YOURSELF.
With prejudice.
Cripe this is unbelievable
Post #26 doesn't answer my question.

I guess you don't have an answer...

You are dismissed.
 

Binary_Digit

DP Veteran
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
5,138
Reaction score
2,809
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I'm curious...

If the label, Fascism, cannot be used, what label do we put on far-left, authoritarian globalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy?
Off the top of my head, I would've answered Communism. Apparently there is a such thing as left-wing authoritarianism though:

Although left-wing authoritarians might seem like the polar opposite of their right-wing authoritarian cousins, there is much they share. Using standard personality tests, Costello found that both left and right-wing authoritarians tended to be disagreeable, lacked intellectual humility, were not particular contentious and had a tendency to be mean. Where left and right-wing authoritarians differ is their attitude towards current society. While right-wing authoritarians fanatically support authority figures in power, their left-wing cousins fanatically oppose them. Costello and his team found that left-wing authoritarians were also more likely to be keen on political violence than their right-wing counterparts.

 

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,093
Reaction score
7,915
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Post #26 doesn't answer my question.

I guess you don't have an answer...

You are dismissed.
Some posts are so incredibly stupid that they can’t be answered.
I rest my case.
And you are STILL DISMISSED, WITH PREJUDICE.
 

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
2,251
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I always find it hilarious when conservatives show their complete ignorance in just.basic political science.

It's entertaining watching them claim that fascism is a left Leaning ideology, and it's even better when they claim fascism and socialism are one and tbe same.

Once and for all fascism and socialism are exact polar opposites. PERIOD...

Mussolini was arguably the father of fascism. Let's see what he did when he got into power:

A former school teacher, Mussolini’s spending on the public sector, schools and infrastructure was considered extravagant. Mussolini "instituted a programme of public works hitherto unrivaled in modern Europe. Bridges, canals and roads were built, hospitals and schools, railway stations and orphanages; swamps were drained and land reclaimed, forests were planted and universities were endowed".[21] As for the scope and spending on social welfare programs, Italian fascism "compared favorably with the more advanced European nations and in some respect was more progressive".[22] When New York city politician Grover Aloysius Whalen asked Mussolini about the meaning behind Italian fascism in 1939, the reply was: "It is like your New Deal!".

Aren't you progressives big on infrastructure spending? Don't you view the New Deal as a good thing for the US?

By 1925, the Fascist government had "embarked upon an elaborate program" that included food supplementary assistance, infant care, maternity assistance, general healthcare, wage supplements, paid vacations, unemployment benefits, illness insurance, occupational disease insurance, general family assistance, public housing and old age and disability insurance.[24] As for public works, the Mussolini's administration "devoted 400 million lire of public monies" for school construction between 1922 and 1942, compared to only 60 million lire between 1862 and 1922.

Gee, an expansive welfare state doesn't sound very right wing. In fact, all of that sounds like stuff Bernie Sanders supports.

By 1939, Fascist Italy attained the highest rate of state ownership of an economy in the world other than the Soviet Union,[42] where the Italian state "controlled over four-fifths of Italy's shipping and shipbuilding, three-quarters of its pig iron production and almost half that of steel".

Hmmm, state ownership over the means of production. You sure fascism isn't left wing?


Mussolini said:
The state reserves the right to be the sole interpreter of the needs of society.

Damn, he sounds just like Milton Friedman!
 

GDViking

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
18,534
Reaction score
10,747
Location
SW Wisconsin
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Mussolini was arguably the father of fascism. Let's see what he did when he got into power:



Aren't you progressives big on infrastructure spending? Don't you view the New Deal as a good thing for the US?



Gee, an expansive welfare state doesn't sound very right wing. In fact, all of that sounds like stuff Bernie Sanders supports.



Hmmm, state ownership over the means of production. You sure fascism isn't left wing?




Damn, he sounds just like Milton Friedman!
So Mussolini was free an lose with the term fascism in the same way Hitler was with the term socialism.
That in no way makes actual fascism left wing...

People misusing a word does not change the meaning...
 

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
2,251
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
So Mussolini was free an lose with the term fascism in the same way Hitler was with the term socialism.
Lol, no, you're just wrong. Mussolini himself coined the word. You have no idea what you are talking about, and your earlier claim that "fascism and socialism are exact polar opposites" is completely false. Here are some parts of the fascist manifesto:

  • Voting for women (which was then opposed by most other European nations);
  • Representation at government level of newly created national councils by economic sector;
  • The abolition of the Italian Senate (at the time, the Senate, as the upper house of parliament, was by process elected by the wealthier citizens, but were in reality direct appointments by the king. It has been described as a sort of extended council of the crown);
  • The formation of a national council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a general commission with ministerial powers.

In labor and social policy, the Manifesto calls for:

  • The quick enactment of a law of the state that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers;
  • A minimum wage;
  • The participation of workers' representatives in the functions of industry commissions;
  • To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants;
  • Reorganization of the railways and the transport sector;
  • Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance;
  • Reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55.

In military affairs, the Manifesto advocates:

  • Creation of a short-service national militia with specifically defensive responsibilities;
  • Armaments factories are to be nationalized;
  • A peaceful but competitive foreign policy.

In finance, the Manifesto advocates:

  • A strong progressive tax on capital (envisaging a “partial expropriation” of concentrated wealth);
  • The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor;
  • Revision of all contracts for military provisions;
  • The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.

Again, virutally all of it is leftist, there is nothing "right wing" about fascism.


People misusing a word does not change the meaning...

That's correct, so stop misusing it.
 

Grand Mal

Question authority
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
36,985
Reaction score
19,323
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
Lol, no, you're just wrong. Mussolini himself coined the word. You have no idea what you are talking about, and your earlier claim that "fascism and socialism are exact polar opposites" is completely false. Here are some parts of the fascist manifesto:



Again, virutally all of it is leftist, there is nothing "right wing" about fascism.




That's correct, so stop misusing it.
Except Hitler and his cronies got their start in the 'Freikorps', right-wing groups of war veterans who literally fought in the streets against socialists. And after he hijacked a party to get a presence in the Reichstag, after he consolidated his power one of the first things he did was support Franco's conservative, monarchist rebellion against the socialist elected government in Spain. And socialists were the first guests in the concentration camps.
So yeah, I'd guess that fascism the way Hitler expressed it is right wing.
 

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
2,251
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Except Hitler and his cronies got their start in the 'Freikorps', right-wing groups of war veterans who literally fought in the streets against socialists.

They weren't "right wing". They were fighting for the government under the command of Gustav Noske, who was a life-long socialist.

And after he hijacked a party to get a presence in the Reichstag, after he consolidated his power one of the first things he did was support Franco's conservative, monarchist rebellion against the socialist elected government in Spain. And socialists were the first guests in the concentration camps.
So yeah, I'd guess that fascism the way Hitler expressed it is right wing.

Hitler hated Marxists, not communists per se. He hated Marxists because he observed that most Bolsheviks were Jewish, and that Marx himself was a Jew.

If Hitler was "right wing" because he killed commies, then so was Stalin. You might as well add Lenin to the list as well.
 

Grand Mal

Question authority
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
36,985
Reaction score
19,323
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
They weren't "right wing". They were fighting for the government under the command of Gustav Noske, who was a life-long socialist.



Hitler hated Marxists, not communists per se. He hated Marxists because he observed that most Bolsheviks were Jewish, and that Marx himself was a Jew.

If Hitler was "right wing" because he killed commies, then so was Stalin. You might as well add Lenin to the list as well.
Hitler and his cronies were far-right. Once he consolidated his power his first action was to support Franco, the conservative monarchist revolting against the socialist government in Spain. Hitler had socialists rounded up and sent to the concentration camps and the Night of the Long Knives was about rooting out the last socialist influences in the party he had hijacked to get a presence in the Reichstag.
You need to pay attention to what he did. Capitalism was so important to him that the SS had to buy their Zyklon B from a private company, Degesh. They ordered it delivered without the indicator, the bad-smelling additive that warned of It's presence.
 

Aunt Antifa

Vaccinated-American
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
20,716
Reaction score
9,899
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I always find it hilarious when conservatives show their complete ignorance in just.basic political science.

It's entertaining watching them claim that fascism is a left Leaning ideology, and it's even better when they claim fascism and socialism are one and tbe same.

Once and for all fascism and socialism are exact polar opposites. PERIOD...

They have been attempting this weird re-write of history in effort to rebrand arguments they want to use today but don’t like the comparisons drawn. “We can’t be nazis, nazis were socialist!”
 

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
2,251
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Hitler and his cronies were far-right.

What does Hitler have in common with Milton Friedman, or Ayn Rand, or even Ron Paul?

Presumably you agree that libertarianism is far right, so what was libertarian about Hitler?


Once he consolidated his power his first action was to support Franco, the conservative monarchist revolting against the socialist government in Spain. Hitler had socialists rounded up and sent to the concentration camps and the Night of the Long Knives was about rooting out the last socialist influences in the party he had hijacked to get a presence in the Reichstag.

Yea, and Stalin had socialists rounded up and executed. We already went through this. Leftists have been murdering each other since the Bolsheviks murdered the Mensheviks.


You need to pay attention to what he did. Capitalism was so important to him

No, it wasn't, because under capitalism the state doesn't control production or distribution. Hitler could not have done what he did without total control over the means of production.

Here's how idiotic it is to say that "capitalism was so important" to Hitler:

The business men, who had been so enthusiastic over the smashing of the troublesome labor unions, now found that left-wing Nazis, who really believed in the party's socialism, were trying to take over the employers' associations, destroy the big department stores, and nationalize industry. Thousands of ragged Nazi Party officials descended on the business houses of those who had not supported Hitler, threatening to seize them in some cases, and in others demanding well-paying jobs in management. Dr. Gottfried Feder, the economic crank, now insisted that the party program be carried out -- nationalization of big business, profit sharing, and abolition of unearned income and "interest slavery". As if this were not enough to frighten the businessmen, Walther Darre, who had just been named Minister of Agriculture, threw the bankers into jitters by promising a big reduction in the capital debts of the farmers and a cut in the interest rate on what remained to 2%.
-- The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany, William A. Shirer, Simon & Shuster (New York, 1960), Volume I, pp. 203-204.

Gee, sounds like a capitalist paradise.


that the SS had to buy their Zyklon B from a private company, Degesh. They ordered it delivered without the indicator, the bad-smelling additive that warned of It's presence.

What the hell does that prove?
 

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
2,251
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
They have been attempting this weird re-write of history in effort to rebrand arguments they want to use today but don’t like the comparisons drawn. “We can’t be nazis, nazis were socialist!”

No need to re-write anything. All anyone has to do is read what has already been written.
 

Moot

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
39,717
Reaction score
14,785
Location
Utah
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Lol, no, you're just wrong. Mussolini himself coined the word. You have no idea what you are talking about, and your earlier claim that "fascism and socialism are exact polar opposites" is completely false. Here are some parts of the fascist manifesto:



Again, virutally all of it is leftist, there is nothing "right wing" about fascism.




That's correct, so stop misusing it.
Fascism is nationalism....or more specifically, white nationalism.

From Merriam Webster Dictionary...

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
 

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
2,251
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Fascism is nationalism....or more specifically, white nationalism.

From Merriam Webster Dictionary...

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual

Instead of an interpretation, let's look at what Hitler actually wrote. From the Nazi 25 point platform:

The good of the community before the good of the individual.

...

The activity of individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the framework of the whole for the benefit for the general good.

That is a sickening degree of leftism, and every progressive reading this agrees with both statements.

and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader,

Like every commie country.

severe economic and social regimentation,

Like every commie country.


and forcible suppression of opposition

Ditto.
 

Moot

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
39,717
Reaction score
14,785
Location
Utah
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Instead of an interpretation, let's look at what Hitler actually wrote. From the Nazi 25 point platform:



That is a sickening degree of leftism, and every progressive reading this agrees with both statements.



Like every commie country.



Like every commie country.




Ditto.
We're talking about Fascism, not Nazism.

From Mussolini's, Doctrine of Fascism ....

"Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and the economic sphere....."


The 25 points of Nazism were more window dressing and propaganda than a fully realized actionable ideology.
 

Mashmont

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
18,604
Reaction score
1,533
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Stop posting such lies and garbage.
learn the definition of words that you use.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2]characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries.[4] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far right within the traditional left–right spectrum.[
Dictatorships are by definition all leftwing, because all dictatorships involve an all-powerful controlling central government. Conservatism, on the other hand, involves a weak central government that gives people the control. Therefore dictatorships cannot be conservative or 'of the right'. It's impossible.
 

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,093
Reaction score
7,915
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Dictatorships are by definition all leftwing, because all dictatorships involve an all-powerful controlling central government. Conservatism, on the other hand, involves a weak central government that gives people the control. Therefore dictatorships cannot be conservative or 'of the right'. It's impossible.
You are replying to a post 7 months old, and then you post painfully ignorant garbage.
Take another 7 months to properly educate yourself.
 

Rogue Valley

Affable Sociopath
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
61,666
Reaction score
46,061
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Again, virutally all of it is leftist, there is nothing "right wing" about fascism.


Au contraré. Fascism and right-wing are synonymous. Two peas in the same authoritarian pod.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultra-nationalism.[1][2] Most scholars place fascism on the far right of the political spectrum.[4][5] Italian Fascism gravitated to the right in the early 1920s.[59][60] In the 1920s, the Italian Fascists described their ideology as right-wing in the political program The Doctrine of Fascism, stating: "We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right,' a fascist century".[62][63] The term "fascist" has been used as a pejorative,[71] regarding varying movements across the far right of the political spectrum.[72] Ultra-nationalism, combined with the myth of national rebirth, is a key foundation of fascism.[197]
Fascism - Wikipedia
 
Top Bottom