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Third suspected drug tunnel discovered near Arizona border

JacksinPA

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https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/425058-third-drug-tunnel-discovered-near-arizona-border

A tunnel that Mexican authorities suspect was used to transfer drugs and people across the border was discovered this week near Arizona, the third such tunnel found in the past month.

The Arizona Republic first reported Friday on the tunnel near Nogales, Sonora, across from Nogales, Ariz. Mexican Federal Police posted a video of the tunnel earlier this week.
==============================================
Who needs fences? Seismograph detectors would be more productive by far, monitoring for noises made by smugglers building & using tunnels under fences.
 

trouble13

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https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/425058-third-drug-tunnel-discovered-near-arizona-border

A tunnel that Mexican authorities suspect was used to transfer drugs and people across the border was discovered this week near Arizona, the third such tunnel found in the past month.

The Arizona Republic first reported Friday on the tunnel near Nogales, Sonora, across from Nogales, Ariz. Mexican Federal Police posted a video of the tunnel earlier this week.
==============================================
Who needs fences? Seismograph detectors would be more productive by far, monitoring for noises made by smugglers building & using tunnels under fences.
How many people went through the tunnel?

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https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/425058-third-drug-tunnel-discovered-near-arizona-border

A tunnel that Mexican authorities suspect was used to transfer drugs and people across the border was discovered this week near Arizona, the third such tunnel found in the past month.

The Arizona Republic first reported Friday on the tunnel near Nogales, Sonora, across from Nogales, Ariz. Mexican Federal Police posted a video of the tunnel earlier this week.
==============================================
Who needs fences? Seismograph detectors would be more productive by far, monitoring for noises made by smugglers building & using tunnels under fences.

They have to tunnels in this area...

There is a fence.

https://theweek.com/captured/683638/border-wall-that-already-exists
 

Captain Adverse

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https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/425058-third-drug-tunnel-discovered-near-arizona-border

A tunnel that Mexican authorities suspect was used to transfer drugs and people across the border was discovered this week near Arizona, the third such tunnel found in the past month.

The Arizona Republic first reported Friday on the tunnel near Nogales, Sonora, across from Nogales, Ariz. Mexican Federal Police posted a video of the tunnel earlier this week.
==============================================
Who needs fences? Seismograph detectors would be more productive by far, monitoring for noises made by smugglers building & using tunnels under fences.

There is small/no need for a "tunnel" if there is no fence. :roll:

Tunnels have become an increasingly common tactic that smugglers have used to get around stricter enforcement at the border, especially in sections that have had physical barriers in place for many years and decades, such as Arizona and California's borders with Mexico.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...ug-tunnel-one-month-found-nogales/2550685002/
 
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DaveFagan

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Hot damn y'all, ah swar! Ain't that a paradox. Trump wants to spend billions of dollars on a Wall and them crafty devils are digging under walls with $15 dollar shovels and pickaxes. Would this be deja vu? No question about it. At least they could get some military $700 shovels to empathize with us dumb taxpayers, eh?
/
 

GreatNews2night

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A 20-yard wall is defeated by a 21-yard ladder.
There are tunnels, small planes, hot air balloons, gliders, boats around the shores, ladders... and bulldozers sponsored by the drug cartels to damage the wall, out of spite, if one is built.
Not to forget, most illegals come through legal entry points and simply overstay their visas.
Spending billions on a wall is stupid.
I'd rather see the money spent to enforce labor laws and go after employers who offer jobs to illegals.
Dry out the jobs, and they will stop coming.
Offer jobs, and they will come, wall or not.
Do hire lots of Labor Department auditors, energetically go after the illegal job offers (with fines and indictment of the bosses who offer jobs), and if there is money left, so, yeah, why not, let's also build a wall. It will help to a certain degree. But focusing on the wall is stupid.
 

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Third suspected drug tunnel discovered near Arizona border


Its nothing a cratering charge cant fix.
 

chuckiechan

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https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/425058-third-drug-tunnel-discovered-near-arizona-border

A tunnel that Mexican authorities suspect was used to transfer drugs and people across the border was discovered this week near Arizona, the third such tunnel found in the past month.

The Arizona Republic first reported Friday on the tunnel near Nogales, Sonora, across from Nogales, Ariz. Mexican Federal Police posted a video of the tunnel earlier this week.
==============================================
Who needs fences? Seismograph detectors would be more productive by far, monitoring for noises made by smugglers building & using tunnels under fences.

Its a shame that over the years our weak border enforcement as created such a large US population that is dependent on these drugs. One more sub group of Americans that can only lean on a rake.
 

apdst

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https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/425058-third-drug-tunnel-discovered-near-arizona-border

A tunnel that Mexican authorities suspect was used to transfer drugs and people across the border was discovered this week near Arizona, the third such tunnel found in the past month.

The Arizona Republic first reported Friday on the tunnel near Nogales, Sonora, across from Nogales, Ariz. Mexican Federal Police posted a video of the tunnel earlier this week.
==============================================
Who needs fences? Seismograph detectors would be more productive by far, monitoring for noises made by smugglers building & using tunnels under fences.

And now, the tunnel is useless. Looks like tunnels aren't 100% effective.
 

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https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/425058-third-drug-tunnel-discovered-near-arizona-border

A tunnel that Mexican authorities suspect was used to transfer drugs and people across the border was discovered this week near Arizona, the third such tunnel found in the past month.

The Arizona Republic first reported Friday on the tunnel near Nogales, Sonora, across from Nogales, Ariz. Mexican Federal Police posted a video of the tunnel earlier this week.
==============================================
Who needs fences? Seismograph detectors would be more productive by far, monitoring for noises made by smugglers building & using tunnels under fences.

Fences means having to use more resources and time intensive methods like tunnels. Put the fences a little bit into the ground and the tunnel has to be deeper. Find the tunnel and destroy it and now that expensive investment is lost. All of this slows down the process.
 

DarkWizard12

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Hot damn y'all, ah swar! Ain't that a paradox. Trump wants to spend billions of dollars on a Wall and them crafty devils are digging under walls with $15 dollar shovels and pickaxes. Would this be deja vu? No question about it. At least they could get some military $700 shovels to empathize with us dumb taxpayers, eh?
/

Ignorance of the time and money a tunnel like this actually takes.
 

DaveFagan

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Ignorance of the time and money a tunnel like this actually takes.

I agree that you are ignorant of the facts. I've done some tunneling. I've tunneled inside your mind and don't even pay rent. I can't stay long because vacuums don't suport life.
/
 
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Captain Adverse

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Tunnels take a long time to build and often require the type of investment that only organized criminal enterprises can get away with...

Ignorance of the time and money a tunnel like this actually takes.

Therefore unlikely to be done by your common migrant, nor used by the cartels to smuggle in migrants for fear of revealing the tunnels existence.

Such tunnels are used to smuggle in drugs and take the money out. They can also be used to smuggle in and out trusted members of the organization and perhaps high paying "special cases" (like terrorists) if the need arose.

Thankfully, they are easy to find and plug up.

Only if you have the time, manpower, and committed resources. It also helps to have the ACTIVE cooperation of Mexican authorities.
 
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joko104

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Fences means having to use more resources and time intensive methods like tunnels. Put the fences a little bit into the ground and the tunnel has to be deeper. Find the tunnel and destroy it and now that expensive investment is lost. All of this slows down the process.

I think they are absurdly claiming drug dealers can dig a tunnel under a thousand yards just as fast as a person can run across a 1000 yard field.
 

Mr Person

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How many people went through the tunnel?

Oh look. Another idiotically dishonest attempt at redirection.

Clue: the magical ever-shifting Trumpist standard does not become an unspecified number of people going through a tunnel just because you attempt to misdirect the thread that way.
 

dcsports

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A 20-yard wall is defeated by a 21-yard ladder.
There are tunnels, small planes, hot air balloons, gliders, boats around the shores, ladders... and bulldozers sponsored by the drug cartels to damage the wall, out of spite, if one is built.
Not to forget, most illegals come through legal entry points and simply overstay their visas.
Spending billions on a wall is stupid.
I'd rather see the money spent to enforce labor laws and go after employers who offer jobs to illegals.
Dry out the jobs, and they will stop coming.
Offer jobs, and they will come, wall or not.
Do hire lots of Labor Department auditors, energetically go after the illegal job offers (with fines and indictment of the bosses who offer jobs), and if there is money left, so, yeah, why not, let's also build a wall. It will help to a certain degree. But focusing on the wall is stupid.

I think you mean a 21 foot ladder. :)

All of those methods require time and resources to put in place. Even if/when these are used, a wall gives border patrol agents a chance to intervene.
 

trouble13

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Oh look. Another idiotically dishonest attempt at redirection.

Clue: the magical ever-shifting Trumpist standard does not become an unspecified number of people going through a tunnel just because you attempt to misdirect the thread that way.
The dishonesty belongs to you. My question is valid. If your argument is that walls dont work because tunnels and ladders then it's reasonable to challenge that by asking for the data of tunnel and ladder traffic. What you're doing is trying to deflect from answering my question with the typical emotional immaturity that has become the lefts crutch and its calling card. You party mascot is a one trick donkey

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

GreatNews2night

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I think you mean a 21 foot ladder. :)

All of those methods require time and resources to put in place. Even if/when these are used, a wall gives border patrol agents a chance to intervene.

Oops, yeah, 20-foot wall, 21-foot ladder. I don't know why I made this weird mistake when I typed my post. Thanks for letting me know.

My point is, regardless of time and resources, they will keep coming, as numerous as the jobs that are offered. Those jobs won't go unfilled, there will be always someone to take them. A wall will inconvenience them, sure, and they'll have to pay more money to the people smugglers who will get them through with the more creative methods, but they will keep coming. And the only study done to address the issue found that 50% of them come through legal entry points. What a wall will accomplish, is that a larger percentage of them will shift to the legal entry points, say 75%, and 25% of them will use the creative methods I've mentioned. But I'd be surprised if a wall actually has the power to decrease the number of illegal immigrants, by any significant degree.

The ONLY way to really stop illegal immigration is to stop offering jobs to illegal immigrants. We don't have a wall, but the lowest point of illegal immigration, with even a reversal, with more people leaving than coming in, coincided with our economic crisis when jobs became rare.

I'm very much against illegal immigration, and when I say so about a wall, I'm not being partisan. I'm just being logical. I want the best use of resources that can effectively dry out illegal immigration, and in my opinion, the best method is to focus on the job offers.

Focusing on physical barriers will just be an incentive for the people smugglers to further invest in more creative methods, and it will be worth their effort, because prices for their services will go up. But whether a Mexican prospective illegal immigrant pays $1,000 to a people smuggler or $2,000, it's irrelevant for us, Americans. That illegal alien will still come to our country, or if he can't afford it and won't come, someone else who can afford it will come in his place.

But if there are no jobs, why in the hell would they come? Those are economic migrants. They don't come because they love our hamburgers or the NFL. They come because they want the jobs. So it stands to logic that the attacking point to deal with the problem, is the job side of the equation.

The moment we seriously enforce our labor laws, with stiff penalties including cancellation of business license, disabling fines (of the going-out-of-business kind), and mandatory prison sentences for the CEOs and owners of the construction, hospitality, and farming companies that offer illegal jobs to these people, illegal immigration will come to a screeching halt.

If billions need to be spent, I'd rather spend them dramatically increasing the capability of the Labor Department to enforce existing laws, and lobbying Congress to pass more laws making the penalties for the illegal job offers much more impressive.

We hear of raids to arrest illegal workers. We rarely - if ever - hear of the business owner who offered the jobs being thrown in jail.

Like I said, if money is well spent doing what I'm suggesting, and once it is fully accomplished, there is still money left for a wall, then by all means, let's build the wall. But primarily and firstly, I'd invest in curtailing the illegal job offers.
 

mrdeltoid

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A 20-yard wall is defeated by a 21-yard ladder.
There are tunnels, small planes, hot air balloons, gliders, boats around the shores, ladders... and bulldozers sponsored by the drug cartels to damage the wall, out of spite, if one is built.
Not to forget, most illegals come through legal entry points and simply overstay their visas.
Spending billions on a wall is stupid.
I'd rather see the money spent to enforce labor laws and go after employers who offer jobs to illegals.
Dry out the jobs, and they will stop coming.
Offer jobs, and they will come, wall or not.
Do hire lots of Labor Department auditors, energetically go fter the illegal job offers (with fines and indictment of the bosses who offer jobs), and if there is money left, so, yeah, why not, let's also build a wall. It will help to a certain degree. But focusing on the wall is stupid.

Yes, it is. A ladder defeats a wall. Weather defeats a drone. Bribes defeat labor department auditors. So let's either do nothing, have open borders, and let the citizens deal with whatever comes in, or let's put it all together and secure the borders. The game the dems and pubbies are playing isn't about the money. It's about politics. The dems think they have a winner because Trump claimed the shut down. The pubbies think they have a winner because walls, along with other tactics works pretty well. When Pelosi said she won't agree to one dollar to fund any kind of border security that includes a wall, painted the dems into a corner. Two political parties, wasting time on keeping a promise. One side say's wall work, one side says they don't. Looks like a stalemate to me. When their is a hard decision to make, a good method is to look at wosrt case scenerios on both sides. If congress funds a wall, what is the worst thing that can happen. If they don't, and there is no wall/barrier built, what is the worst thing that can happen?
 

GreatNews2night

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Yes, it is. A ladder defeats a wall. Weather defeats a drone. Bribes defeat labor department auditors. So let's either do nothing, have open borders, and let the citizens deal with whatever comes in, or let's put it all together and secure the borders. The game the dems and pubbies are playing isn't about the money. It's about politics. The dems think they have a winner because Trump claimed the shut down. The pubbies think they have a winner because walls, along with other tactics works pretty well. When Pelosi said she won't agree to one dollar to fund any kind of border security that includes a wall, painted the dems into a corner. Two political parties, wasting time on keeping a promise. One side say's wall work, one side says they don't. Looks like a stalemate to me. When their is a hard decision to make, a good method is to look at wosrt case scenerios on both sides. If congress funds a wall, what is the worst thing that can happen. If they don't, and there is no wall/barrier built, what is the worst thing that can happen?
Yes, of course it's political posturing. Both parties have been only focusing on how to score points, not exactly on what is best for America.

Me, I'm just being pragmatic. I always thought that the labor market is what drives illegal immigration, wall or not.

Look, a country like, say, Bolivia, doesn't have any walls around it. They also don't have any illegal immigration problem. Why? Because their economy is very poor with a very restricted job market that is worse than that of the neighboring countries therefore nobody wants to illegally immigrate there. So, we do have a strong economy and a stronger job market than that of Mexico and Central American countries, therefore we get a lot of people coming from there, trying to work here. We don't get as many Canadians illegally coming here, why? Because Canada is a developed country with a strong job market.

The reality is that our job market is stronger than Mexico's and than that of the Central American countries, and this is not going to change anytime soon. Therefore we need to do something to stop the ill effects of this differential, and truly enforced job regulations is the remedy.

Think for example of tightly regulated job sectors like Medicine. A Guatemalan medical doctor would make a lot more money working in the United States, but you don't hear of Guatemalan doctors among the migrants who sneak through the Southern border, because that doctor wouldn't be able to just take a doctor job here. He'd need to first pass the three steps of the United States Medical Licensing Examination, and would need to complete American residency training for several years, with a training visa that in most cases includes a 2-year home country rule establishing that he needs to go back to Guatemala for two years, after the end of the long training, before applying for a green card. So, they don't sneak in, because that sector is too regulated.

Now, sectors like farming, construction, and hospitality are not regulated. Any illegal alien can get a job in a construction crew or a restaurant kitchen or a hog farm. So, they come.

Truly regulate and inspect those sectors, and they won't come; it's as simple as that.

The problem is, neither political party wants to truly solve the problem, especially because if they were to actually do something about the root causes, they'd be going after powerful businessmen who benefit from illegal immigration and lobby their very campaigns to never pass any legislation that would truly penalize the people who offer the illegal jobs under the table.

Not to forget, they don't want to lose their political platforms. If illegal immigration didn't exist, the Republicans wouldn't be able to rally their base against it, and the Dems wouldn't be able to rally their base for it.

So, both parties perpetuate the problem by making a lot of campaign promises, but doing nothing once they're elected.
 
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GreatNews2night

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I should say, even if the effort appears misguided to me, Trump at least is trying to do something about it. That's because he is not a conventional politician. So, in this regard, I commend him for it. Because traditional politicians from both parties are more than happy with the status quo. They DO NOT want the problem of illegal immigration solved for good (see my post above). Conservatives think their elected representatives want the problem solved, and it's not solved just because liberals get in the way. No, they don't want it solved, either. They want it to stay just the way it is, so that they can whine and complain about it to rally their base. Better proof, when a bipartisan group actually proposed some sensible legislation that might actually have had an impact, the Republicans refused to vote for it and called their own party members who helped crafting the bill, RINOs. This should have revealed to people that it's a lot of posturing, with no action.

Will a wall solve it? No, it won't. Like I said, only true job market regulation will (together with a fast-reacting job permit program for some sectors, with no path to citizenship). But at least, it's not the inaction we see from both parties. Unlike most politicians, Trump is actually trying to fulfill a campaign promise (although only partially, because what he actually promised is that Mexico would pay for it).
 
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GreatNews2night

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If such things were possible, if I could be given unlimited power to change legislation, change the constitution, change the IRS code, change the budget, and hire personnel to enforce the legislation, I'd fix the problem of illegal immigration in a few months, with no need for a wall. Measures to be implemented:

1. Constitutional amendment to establish that for a child to be American, he or she needs to have at least one parent who is a legal citizen or a lawful permanent resident of the United States, even if the child is born within the territory of the United States. Bye bye, anchor babies.

2. Stiff penalties to any American or Foreign-based business that operates within the United States, for the offense (made to be a high-degree felony) of offering any jobs to illegal aliens. The owner and/or CEO of the company found to be guilty of such (as well as a number of highly placed officers like the CFO, high level hiring managers, etc., who were found to have participated in any way of those hiring practices), would be given mandatory, relatively long prison sentence with no possibility of parole; the business would have the license to operate revoked, and HUGE fines (of the going-out-of-business kind) would be imposed. Such businesses would also get a mandatory and thorough IRS audit of the last ten years of their business returns, extended to the personal returns of the high officers.

3. A huge army of Labor Department and IRS auditors would be hired to enforce #2, with lots of checks and balances and transparency, to avoid corruption and bribes. A business caught offering jobs to illegal aliens would get in probation for a first offense, with frequent and draconian auditing. A second offense would trigger the #2 penalties above.

4. No more diversity immigration lottery (how stupid is that???) and no more family reunion visas except in the most strenuous circumstances (a panel would examine one by one those exceptional cases), to stop chain migration. Immigrant visa decisions would instead, be based on merit, with a system like Australia's, where the value of someone for the job market (advanced degrees like doctors and scientists, essential skills like nurses and computer engineers, ability to contribute economically to society) is what drives the decision. Those skilled legal immigrants benefit the economy and should be welcome, like they are in any developed country. They should have a path to citizenship (green card, then naturalization). This already exists (H visa program) but should be expanded and be practically the only way to legally immigrate to the United States. No limits for the number of such skilled immigrant visas as long as they had job offers that could not be filled by Americans (the jobs would have to be advertised to Americans and existing legal immigrants, for a minimum of six months, and unfulfilled).

5. Simultaneously, a non-immigrant job permit system with no path to citizenship would be expanded, so that guest workers for sectors that truly have trouble hiring Americans (such as harvesting) would be able to EASILY obtain those permits from the American consulate in their country of origin, therefore there would be no incentive to try to sneak in illegally. The system would be fast, easy, cheap, responsive, and evaluated yearly by the Labor Department. That is, if a sector is found to be deficient in say, 50,000 workers, then 50,000 job permits are allowed for that sector. These permits would be temporary (many of the illegal aliens just want to work, send money to their families, and would go back to their home countries if they weren't afraid of not being able to come back if they left) but renewable if the need persists. If a sector gets saturated, it drops out of the program. These foreign guest workers would pay taxes and social security fees, and would be given fair wages. Any foreign worker caught without a permit or lawful resident status, would be summarily deported and PERMANENTLY ineligible for the program, for the duration of that worker's lifetime.

6. Refugee status would not be allowed to be a proxy for economic migration. The status would have to be necessarily temporary (the resolution of the strenuous circumstances in the country of origin would trigger the return of the refugee to that country), subject to frequent review, and very tightly regulated to provide for true proof of need. The United States would only absorb refugees in the same proportion of the average of other developed countries.

7. Any immigrant visa of any kind would only be granted after thorough vetting to exclude anybody with demonstrable ties to terrorist organizations. This of course is already being done but should be done better.

-----------

Do all of the above and illegal immigration comes to a screeching halt, no need for any wall.

Do the politicians want to do it? Of course not. They don't want to solve the problem, like I said in my last two posts.
 
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ALiberalModerate

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How many people went through the tunnel?

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Most people that are here illegally came here legally and overstayed their visa, so what is your point?
 
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