Things I dont understand about the American mainstream media narrative

[yo1]

Hello my child...(of course I'm speaking related to post counts which means your are new) Hello and Welcome.

The answer to all your question is simple...Because Fear sells. And fear of Brown people sells more.

Here is a fun fact for you....

According to a survey conducted by Fairleigh Dickinson University, 44 percent of self-described Republicans believe "an armed revolution might be necessary to protect our liberties." You heard that right - nearly half believe it may be time to overthrow the government. And, if that wasn't concerning enough, only 31 percent of Republicans disagree about an upcoming revolution.

it's the anti-government extreme right that are currently espousing conspiracy theories and stockpiling weapons. They are the real threat to our nation and to our democracy. Considering that Republicans have actively worked to fight against liberty in the areas of voting rights, women's reproductive health, and economic security, it appears the only so-called liberty they worry about is the Second Amendment.

WE have our elected Republican Congress people running red herring hearings about whether there is conspiracy that Government buying all the bullets or if there is a infiltration of Muslim Brotherhood in our government. ridiculous stuff and spending million to do it. and meanwhile we don't have money to spend on the teachers, police, firemen and veterans.

The sad part is those So Called Americans who fan the flames of hatred doing it not out of concern for the public or this country but because of greed. Because it is easy to scare simple minded people in to a frenzy and they in turn will buy guns and bullets, build shelters and stock survival gear and spend a ton o money for ultimate clash with their own government.

Polls like these show that 44 percent of Republicans are willing to mount an armed insurgency against our government to protect the gun-show loophole, which allows criminals and terrorists to buy guns. This shows how conspiracy theories, like FEMA camps and the gun confiscation, really do have dangerous results. Responsible leaders in the Republican party must start working to change this, and quiet the anti-government rhetoric in their party. And right-wing talking heads need to be held accountable for the dangerous conspiracy theories they spout.

But they won't and when it hits the fan, then we wonder, how could this happen and why nobody stop it!!!

Diving Mullah

Well it started badly and got better.

I agree.

Two words. American Taliban.

Complete disregard for freedom of belief, association, movement and speech.

Fascism in other words.

And no its not like that in europe.

 

[Perotista]

I honestly dont trust the american armed forces anymore and i dont think the planet does.

When drone planes become absolutely synonymous with civilian casualty and an absolutely abhorrent amount of dead kids, it becomes a serious question if the collateral damage has become a willfull neglect and/or targeting and terrorism of a civilian population in a nation america has never even declared war on.

if this was happening in boston, it would be ww3.

You probably don't want to talk to me then, I retired after 20 years of active duty and then spent the next 26 years working for the military as a Department of the Army civilian. my disclaimer. The military doesn't condemn Islam although it has no qualms in killing those Muslim's which the President and company has deem terrorists. There are civilians in charge of the military, both the CINC and Secretary of Defense are numbers one and two in the chain and both are civilians. I would say most of the military on active duty has been to Muslim Countries, worked either side by side with Muslims or had interaction with them. In the case of Afghanistan, Muslims are our allies and on the same side with us, for the most part. Targets and instructions come down from upon high. So too does the rules of engagement. The American military is very conscious of keeping collateral damage to a minimum, take collateral damage as killing civilians as in a lot of cases soldiers will put themselves in harms way to avoid killing civilians where a well placed bomb or drone strike could have alleviated putting the soldier or soldiers under fire.

The problem of Islam haters is not in the military, it is with the civilian population. One's religion seldom comes up, it is good guy vs. bad guy that does regardless of his religion.

 

[SocialEngineer]

Quit lying, I'm not a Democrat and I don't respond well to nonsense, nor do I suffer fools well. First off the Crusades was how many years ago ? And Islam back then was full of furry pink bunny rabbits, Rainbows and Unicorns that shot " love" out of their horns......

Enter in the Barbary Pirates or any of the uncountable Muslim murderers of the past who killed in the name of " Allah "

Spare me the your revisionistic nonsense. And the Holocaust ? Do they have " BOOKS" where you live ? Because in 1934, Hitler instituted a policy that attacked the Christian Churches.

Hitler dissolved the German Catholic Youth League, and for the next 10 years he arrested Catholic Priests, Nuns and Religious Leaders. Hitler instituted the 30 point program called the " National Reich Church "

Ever heard of it ? Nope ? Go figure, as you make desperate claims about a subject you know nothing about.

Some of those points are as follows..

1) The National Reich Church demands immediately cessation of the publishing and distributions of the bible in Germany.

2) The National Riech Church will clear away from it's altars all crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of saints

3) On the altars there must only be the book " Mein Kampf ", and to the left of the altar a sword.

Get it ?

And KKK ? They were Democrats, not Christians.

So you assert that it's the religion, not the politics, that drives the terrorists.

If that's the case, why aren't there more terrorists? There are over a billion Muslims on earth. Why aren't they all attacking us? India and Pakistan both have nukes. Why haven't they launched them at us and/or Israel? What do they have to fear if they all believe that Allah will give them paradise if they die in the fight against us?

I've met over a hundred Muslims in my life. One of them was bat **** crazy, and I wouldn't put it past him to go blow himself up somewhere (He was from the West Bank of Palestine). Every other Muslim I've ever met has been very cool with me, and I've had very fulfilling conversations with many of them about faith. And I was born and raised Southern Baptist.

So why out of a hundred people I've met who call themselves Muslim, why are 99 of them even willing to talk to me? Why are so many of them willing to have conversations with me at all that aren't trying to convert me? Are they bad Muslims, or are they just hiding their intentions until they're ready to blow me up?

The terrorists view any Muslim who disagrees with them as a bad Muslim, and an enemy of Allah. The Muslims that disagree with the terrorists view the terrorists as bad Muslims, and enemies of Allah. Whose side are you going to take in the argument between the two?

 

[SocialEngineer]

Well it started badly and got better.

I agree.

Two words. American Taliban.

Complete disregard for freedom of belief, association, movement and speech.

Fascism in other words.

And no its not like that in europe.

Yo, you need to remember that the media you see in the Middle East cites every instance of collateral damage in drone attacks, and centers their coverage on it, while they ignore all of the valid military targets that are destroyed without civilian casualties.

If we were fighting this war fifty years ago, Pakistan would be a third-world ruin as the result of the invasion because of all the collateral damage. War is infinitely more precise than it has ever been, even if it is still not precise enough to prevent the populace from suffering as a result.

 

[yo1]

You probably don't want to talk to me then, I retired after 20 years of active duty and then spent the next 26 years working for the military as a Department of the Army civilian. my disclaimer. The military doesn't condemn Islam although it has no qualms in killing those Muslim's which the President and company has deem terrorists. There are civilians in charge of the military, both the CINC and Secretary of Defense are numbers one and two in the chain and both are civilians. I would say most of the military on active duty has been to Muslim Countries, worked either side by side with Muslims or had interaction with them. In the case of Afghanistan, Muslims are our allies and on the same side with us, for the most part. Targets and instructions come down from upon high. So too does the rules of engagement. The American military is very conscious of keeping collateral damage to a minimum, take collateral damage as killing civilians as in a lot of cases soldiers will put themselves in harms way to avoid killing civilians where a well placed bomb or drone strike could have alleviated putting the soldier or soldiers under fire.

The problem of Islam haters is not in the military, it is with the civilian population. One's religion seldom comes up, it is good guy vs. bad guy that does regardless of his religion.

I actually did have a degree of trust for this, abu gharib notwithstanding, but im losing it rapidly.

Apparantly, and this is something that i have never seen documented in the news, Muslims are over represented in the american military along with catholics. Jews and prodestants are substancially under represented. That surprised me. No idea why that is, but apparantly it is so.

However you feel about your experiences and how they are seen, ive literally ran into scores of people who are supposedly ex military on the internet, who talk about eradication of islam, address the faith and its people (as in all of them) in terms that would be illegal here, and waffle on about killing civilians like its a good thing. Im not holding you accountable for this and im not getting into moral arguments about your choice to serve, but what i will say is this- however you feel, and especially if you love the military, it cant be good reading to hear that a drone strike has killed 11 children and that the statistics show this as reflective of a horrific amount of civilian casualties. That cant make good reading to a proud serviceman.

 

[yo1]

Yo, you need to remember that the media you see in the Middle East cites every instance of collateral damage in drone attacks, and centers their coverage on it, while they ignore all of the valid military targets that are destroyed without civilian casualties.

If we were fighting this war fifty years ago, Pakistan would be a third-world ruin as the result of the invasion because of all the collateral damage. War is infinitely more precise than it has ever been, even if it is still not precise enough to prevent the populace from suffering as a result.

Im not in the middle east. Im in London.

My media is BBC, Al Jazeera, CNN, ABC, NBC, etc. If i want a laugh i watch Fox news and RT.

For those who have never heard of RT, its the station that makes Fox news look like an accountants report.

I trust Retuers and the BBC more than most. Al Jazeera isnt too bad actuallly. The american networks are ok, but some are noticably slanted one way or another and they all seem completely out of the box on anything remotely related to islam.

For disclosure im not muslim, but i know 100s of muslims as i live in london. I would describe them as normal boring people. Common and innocuous as blades of grass. Just people.

So.. i take some of your point, but again there is a disgusting amount of moral gymnastics going on.

"We" have never declared war on Pakistan. The idea that religion transcends national borders and is now a pretext for undeclared war is also troubling. Any muslim nation is fair game now? When did that become the rule?

The media, hollywood, the government, have all traded in naked lies and disingenuous bs. Ive seen this.

The armed forces, one would hope are well run and avoid civilian casualties, as the ex forces member earlier stated. That is afterall what separates us from "them", but the numbers are disgusting and it is a real and serious issue at this point. Weve all seen collateral murder, abu gharib and we all heard 11 kids got wiped out in their beds two weeks ago. In america did it even make the news?

The justification of collateral damage in the established rules of war is that the target justifies the risk, measures are taken to avoid it and that the levels of collateral damage are not excessive. These deaths in nations that have never been declared war upon, like pakistan, somalia and yemen, seem high, and for what value of target exactly? Are these people attacking america or just attacking their occupier?

 

[Fenton]

I count civilian casualties. Im not sure you want to get into this.

Go for it, as you mediate terroism by purposely blurring the lines between war and cowardly attacks on American Civillians.

Yea, I get it, " evil drones " and collateral damage, but how thick can a person be to argue against drone attacks and Americas right to defend itself right after Muslims bombed the Boston Marathon ?

I'm not the one who started this empty narrative, and your personal dilemma with America defending itself doesn't intimidate me in the least.

 

[Perotista]

I actually did have a degree of trust for this, abu gharib notwithstanding, but im losing it rapidly.

Apparantly, and this is something that i have never seen documented in the news, Muslims are over represented in the american military along with catholics. Jews and prodestants are substancially under represented. That surprised me. No idea why that is, but apparantly it is so.

However you feel about your experiences and how they are seen, ive literally ran into scores of people who are supposedly ex military on the internet, who talk about eradication of islam, address the faith and its people (as in all of them) in terms that would be illegal here, and waffle on about killing civilians like its a good thing. Im not holding you accountable for this and im not getting into moral arguments about your choice to serve, but what i will say is this- however you feel, and especially if you love the military, it cant be good reading to hear that a drone strike has killed 11 children and that the statistics show this as reflective of a horrific amount of civilian casualties. That cant make good reading to a proud serviceman.

There are a lot of Buddhist also, probably almost if not all the religions of the world. We have Buddhist Chaplains now. Minorities are also represented in the military more than one would think also, probably double when it comes to the portion they represent here in total. If there is such a thing as an equal opportunity employer, the military is it.

yes, i like the way you used supposedly ex-military. On the internet you can never be sure. I can't talk for all military or ex-military. I was never in the drone business, way too old when those came along. I really do not know how they if they were real ex-military would act on the internet. But in real life, face to face, like us Vietnam Vets, we do not talk about killing people. One may say they were at such and such a place, those of us there would nod their heads in recognition and then start talking about bars and bar girls or perhaps the latest baseball scores. We usually talk bad a but civilians, but what the heck, civilians talk bad about us.

One who is in the military or has been does what they have to do to keep alive and those comrades, those brothers in arms around him alive. Yes, I would assume sometimes that things go overboard as in Mai Lai in Vietnam. But that doesn't make us happy. We did or do what we had to and then we live with it. I am real good at compartmentalization and sticking things into lock boxes in my mind. Others are no lucky. One can become dehumanized in war, this is something I think civilians can't understand. The vast majority, this is not the case, but it can happen.

I do not know of a single military man, active duty or retired or one who just served a couple of years who would rejoice over the killing of innocent civilians or children. But sometimes when tasked to take out a high valued target, these things happen. Then too the soldier sometimes returns to the states with what is known as PTSD. The guilt of having done so is carried with him. My grandson who served with the 1st Infantry Division in Afghanistan is being treated for that now.

Now if you would ask me if to get UBL, in the process of getting him you would have to have killed a couple of civilians, I would have done that. I wouldn't be proud of it, but knowing that action could save a thousand, perhaps many, many more lives than that, yes I would have done that. But thank god, I was never ask to do that. Then again, I am saying I would have done that, but I don't know if I would as I wasn't and never will be in that situation. one just doesn't know how they will react to any situation or circumstance until it happens.

I do not know if this helps or not, I do not know if this is nothing more than rambling of an old retired crusty MSG. But for what it is worth, here it is.

 

[Fenton]

Unless there is a presupposition that muslims are
indeed evil on this forum, you are
acting mighty sensitive for an individual who just attacked 1/4 of the planet on a personal level.

Maybe follow a straight set of rules.

I'm attacking the very superficial position of a couple of misinformed individuals on an internet forum.

Why are you predisposed to exagerations and hyperbole ? Is your position so lacking in merit that your'e forced into obvious constructs to try and maintain some sense of relevency ?

Hey, we get it, you brits, especially the younger generation don't like America. So what ?

You won't get any apolgies from me, nor from anyone on our soil who has even a modest amount of common sense.

You guys used to show up on these forums during the Iraq War and call us " Imperialist"....Lol...

Brits, calling us Imperialist....wow.

So your complaints about our drone strikes are expected, and just as easily dismissed, as I suspect ANY American aggression towards those responsible for the attacks on 9/11 is fodder for your criticism.

Aren't there British Forums you can go troll on, you know, talk about spotted dick and all of the other infamous English culinary travesties your Island is responzible for ?

Or a good dental forum ? Because your criticism comes at a pretty heavy price as your lack of objectivity further marginalizes your position in this debate.

Oh BTW, Argentina Called, they wan't their f***in Islands back.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Go for it, as you mediate terroism by purposely blurring the lines between war and cowardly attacks on American Civillians.

Yea, I get it, " evil drones " and collateral damage, but how thick can a person be to argue against drone attacks and Americas right to defend itself right after Muslims bombed the Boston Marathon ?

I'm not the one who started this empty narrative, and your personal dilemma with America defending itself doesn't intimidate me in the least.

The Boston Marathon bombers were from Pakistan?

 

[yo1]

Go for it, as you mediate terroism by purposely blurring the lines between war and cowardly attacks on American Civillians.

Yea, I get it, " evil drones " and collateral damage, but how thick can a person be to argue against drone attacks and Americas right to defend itself right after Muslims bombed the Boston Marathon ?

I'm not the one who started this empty narrative, and your personal dilemma with America defending itself doesn't intimidate me in the least.

No. I dont mediate anything. I presume no fear or favour and i just keep a count on how many normal people are getting slaughtered. I give some credence to motive, but not as an excuse. You mention Americans getting slaughtered, but you are talking about two or three people, in a week where American attacks killed 11 kids in their bed, in one attack.

The aforementioned deaths happened before the boston marathon, not after it and they happened on the other side of the planet. the boston marathon perps were american. lets not get into insults on this site. you wont win that war, but il happily wage it with you, just not on a clean website.

I am unclear as to what constitutes a clear and present danger to the united states. Have you seen obamas list of targets? Surely the fact that there are so many, out there for so long, tells you that not all of Obamas death list is by definition, an imminent danger to america?

There is no empty narrative, other than the ones you seem to have pinned on your wall. I mean you advocate war against AQ in Afghan and Pakistan, but you support them in Syria?

The rules of engagement, the idea of declaring war, of actually taking to the battlefield, rather than bombing civilians, the actual legal framework for the defence of collateral damage, - these arent empty narratives, these are the fig leafs that sustain your virtue as a non terrorist.

No ones trying to intimidate you, im asking you for your opinion. What credence i attribute to it, is my prerogative.

We killed 11 kids....but its a war...but we didnt declare a war....and it happens all the time...but they are high quality targets...in civilian area...that we cant engage....so we bomb them with no warning to the local populous and kill a load of civilians...

Im not justifying acts of terror, im condemning them mate.

 

[yo1]

I'm attacking the very superficial position of a couple of misinformed individuals on an internet forum.

Why are you predisposed to exagerations and hyperbole ? Is your position so lacking in merit that your'e forced into obvious constructs to try and maintain some sense of relevency ?

Hey, we get it, you brits, especially the younger generation don't like America. So what ?

You won't get any apolgies from me, nor from anyone on our soil who has even a modest amount of common sense.

You guys used to show up on these forums during the Iraq War and call us " Imperialist"....Lol...

Brits, calling us Imperialist....wow.

So your complaints about our drone strikes are expected, and just as easily dismissed, as I suspect ANY American aggression towards those responsible for the attacks on 9/11 is fodder for your criticism.

Aren't there British Forums you can go troll on, you know, talk about spotted dick and all of the other infamous English culinary travesties your Island is responzible for ?

Or a good dental forum ? Because your criticism comes at a pretty heavy price as your lack of objectivity further marginalizes your position in this debate.

Oh BTW, Argentina Called, they wan't their f***in Islands back.

Why do you always go into these moral gymnastics.

An entity known as america killed 11 kids on a pretext.

An entity known as two americans, blew up a marathon on a pretext.

Thats what happened. Why do you seek to obfiscate the issue to the nth degree with partisan patriot arguments.

Id love to see you expose these eggagerations and hyperbolies.

I said the civilian deaths were horrific. You dont class 11 dead kids in one attack as horrific, but if it was 11 dead american kids, you would of course call it horrific. If there were muslims involved and not gun nuts, you would also call it horrific. If it turned out to be gun nuts, would it then be "aw shucks!".

Im encountering a lack of moral integrity and a moral gymnastic display.

Dont blame me for losing track of your leaps.

I read some waffle, saw some straw man arguments and actually imagined you doing an alex jones esque limey accent as i flicked over the rest of your post, and decided to leave it unprocessed.

You werent content with making all muslims into one homogenous monster, youve now linked me to every brit youve ever met, as you think its bad when people do this to americans? You also are accusing me of accusing you of something someone said to you years ago?

"My good man, " what on earth are you talking about. Theres 60 million plus people here. They are not all the same person. No one asked you for an apology. This is a political forum, a dispassionate, coherent, logical argument would have done just fine.


"So your complaints about our drone strikes are expected, and just as easily dismissed, as I suspect ANY American aggression towards those responsible for the attacks on 9/11 is fodder for your criticism."

Pakistani children did 9/11?

"Aren't there British Forums you can go troll on, you know, talk about spotted dick and all of the other infamous English culinary travesties your Island is responzible for ?"

This is the www. You are clearly breaking the rules of your own site. No lectures necessary from you on trolling thanks.

"Or a good dental forum ? Because your criticism comes at a pretty heavy price as your lack of objectivity further marginalizes your position in this debate."

Insert hamburger/infant mortality/aids rate/adult illiteracy rate/teenage pregnancy/etc/etc/etc joke...clearly im lacking objectivity. I could see that from your nationalist pejorative stereotyping...

"Oh BTW, Argentina Called, they wan't their f***in Islands back."

They never had them in the first place...

 

[Medusa]

Riiiight...

You know what, when Christians and Buddhist and Hindu's start setting IED's in populated area's that kill innocent civilians, and when their leaders ignore these attacks, refusing to openly condemn them, then we can talk about the stereo-types of a "great faith".

Truth is Islam doesn't preach peace, or equity or freedom as it is responsible for the subjugation of millions of women worldwide.

So spare me.

the other religions are " the universal declaration of human rights " ?

and dont forget christians used to kill both women and the other people although bible doesnt consist of so hateful verses..


people shouldnt make comments about things they dont know much ,for instance Quran..

 

[YoungConserv]

Well you are calling them terrorists, with suicide bombs and human shields.

but 1 you are in their nation
2 you never even declared war on their nation.
3 you killed 200 kids. i mean seriously, two weeks ago an american based attack killed 11 kids. Are you seriously asserting that the target was walking around all day with 11 kids attached to him and there was no other way? you couldnt have killed 10 to get your man, or maybe 9, or maybe 8.

Suicide vest attack on an occupational army = coward.
Remote control plane attack that kills 11 kids = hero.

got it.

200 kids where collateral damage going after people who already attacked us. 2 we don't need to declare war to take military action. 3 the attacks where not designed to kill those children the Boston bombs where he looked right at that 8 year old as he set down the back pack it was a choice he made! 4 we don't throw parades for the drone operates that kill those kids they do! It is not the same thing at all!

 

[Medusa]

Go for it, as you mediate terroism by purposely blurring the lines between war and cowardly attacks on American Civillians.

Yea, I get it, " evil drones " and collateral damage, but how thick can a person be to argue against drone attacks and Americas right to defend itself right after Muslims bombed the Boston Marathon ?

I'm not the one who started this empty narrative, and your personal dilemma with America defending itself doesn't intimidate me in the least.

people need to ask themselves why those terrorists attack america

why not luxembourg or russia



how many people were they ?

100 ?

100000000??,

were those terrorists who attacked WTC from iraq ?

do iraqi people have to suffer because this attack was used as an excuse to control the ME ?

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

200 kids where collateral damage going after people who already attacked us. 2 we don't need to declare war to take military action. 3 the attacks where not designed to kill those children the Boston bombs where he looked right at that 8 year old as he set down the back pack it was a choice he made! 4 we don't throw parades for the drone operates that kill those kids they do! It is not the same thing at all!

2. Congress does need to authorize any protracted military engagement. Call that what you will.
3. So what, the drone operators aren't looking when they throw munitions around?
4. No, we just created a special medal for them.

 

[yo1]

200 kids where collateral damage going after people who already attacked us. 2 we don't need to declare war to take military action. 3 the attacks where not designed to kill those children the Boston bombs where he looked right at that 8 year old as he set down the back pack it was a choice he made! 4 we don't throw parades for the drone operates that kill those kids they do! It is not the same thing at all!

9/11 was 12 years ago. the people who attacked you are dead. the person who got the people who attacked you, to attack you is dead.

200 kids are not collateral damage. i mean you call them that, but really they all have names and you just want to put two words on it.

I mean they were AKA Ayeesha 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb 14| male
Shoaib 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad 16 | male
Tariq Aziz 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan 17 | male
Maezol Khan 8 | female
Nasir Khan male
Naeem Khan male
Naeemullah male
Mohammad Tahir 16 | male
Azizul Wahab 15 | male
Fazal Wahab 16 | male
Ziauddin 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus 16 | male
Fazal Hakim 19 | male
Ilyas 13 | male
Sohail 7 | male
Asadullah 9 | male
khalilullah 9 | male
Noor Mohammad 8 | male
Khalid 12 | male
Saifullah 9 | male
Mashooq Jan 15 | male
Nawab 17 | male
Sultanat Khan 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman 13 | male
Noor Mohammad 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman 17 | male
Abdullah 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman 16 | male
Shahbuddin 15 | male
Yahya Khan 16 |male
Rahatullah 17 | male
Mohammad Salim 11 | male
Shahjehan 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan 15 | male
Bakht Muneer 14 | male
Numair 14 | male
Mashooq Khan 16 | male
Ihsanullah 16 | male
Luqman 12 | male
Jannatullah 13 | male
Ismail 12 | male
Taseel Khan 18 | male
Zaheeruddin 16 | male
Qari Ishaq 19 | male
Jamshed Khan 14 | male
Alam Nabi 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim 19 | male
Rahmatullah 14 | male
Abdus Samad 17 | male
Siraj 16 | male
Saeedullah 17 | male
Abdul Waris 16 | male
Darvesh 13 | male
Ameer Said 15 | male
Shaukat 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman 17 | male
Salman 12 | male
Fazal Wahab 18 | male
Baacha Rahman 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman 17 | male
Iftikhar 17 | male
Inayatullah 15 | male
Mashooq Khan 16 | male
Ihsanullah 16 | male
Luqman 12 | male
Jannatullah 13 | male
Ismail 12 | male
Abdul Waris 16 | male
Darvesh 13 | male
Ameer Said 15 | male
Shaukat 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman 17 | male
Adnan 16 | male
Najibullah 13 | male
Naeemullah 17 | male
Hizbullah 10 | male
Kitab Gul 12 | male
Wilayat Khan 11 | male
Zabihullah 16 | male
Shehzad Gul 11 | male
Shabir 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah 17 | male
Shafiullah 16 | male
Nimatullah 14 | male
Shakirullah 16 | male
Talha 8 | male

Until they became collateral damage of course.

Charlotte
Daniel
Olivia
Josephine
Ana
Dylan
Madeleine
Catherine
James
Chase
Jesse

^recognise those names. Sandy hook. Maybe they can play together in heaven eh?

My issue is how easy it is to explain away 11 dead kids over there, and how serious you take 1 dead kid of yourside.

clearly the rest of the planet doesnt share this bias.

and no, that wasnt 200, just a tiny proportion.

 

[yo1]

There are a lot of Buddhist also, probably almost if not all the religions of the world. We have Buddhist Chaplains now. Minorities are also represented in the military more than one would think also, probably double when it comes to the portion they represent here in total. If there is such a thing as an equal opportunity employer, the military is it.

yes, i like the way you used supposedly ex-military. On the internet you can never be sure. I can't talk for all military or ex-military. I was never in the drone business, way too old when those came along. I really do not know how they if they were real ex-military would act on the internet. But in real life, face to face, like us Vietnam Vets, we do not talk about killing people. One may say they were at such and such a place, those of us there would nod their heads in recognition and then start talking about bars and bar girls or perhaps the latest baseball scores. We usually talk bad a but civilians, but what the heck, civilians talk bad about us.

One who is in the military or has been does what they have to do to keep alive and those comrades, those brothers in arms around him alive. Yes, I would assume sometimes that things go overboard as in Mai Lai in Vietnam. But that doesn't make us happy. We did or do what we had to and then we live with it. I am real good at compartmentalization and sticking things into lock boxes in my mind. Others are no lucky. One can become dehumanized in war, this is something I think civilians can't understand. The vast majority, this is not the case, but it can happen.

I do not know of a single military man, active duty or retired or one who just served a couple of years who would rejoice over the killing of innocent civilians or children. But sometimes when tasked to take out a high valued target, these things happen. Then too the soldier sometimes returns to the states with what is known as PTSD. The guilt of having done so is carried with him. My grandson who served with the 1st Infantry Division in Afghanistan is being treated for that now.

Now if you would ask me if to get UBL, in the process of getting him you would have to have killed a couple of civilians, I would have done that. I wouldn't be proud of it, but knowing that action could save a thousand, perhaps many, many more lives than that, yes I would have done that. But thank god, I was never ask to do that. Then again, I am saying I would have done that, but I don't know if I would as I wasn't and never will be in that situation. one just doesn't know how they will react to any situation or circumstance until it happens.

I do not know if this helps or not, I do not know if this is nothing more than rambling of an old retired crusty MSG. But for what it is worth, here it is.

i just dont think any random person has the right to die for someone elses cause. i hold civilian life precious, because it could well be your kids we are talking about.

you sound like a person who has bled for his country, and i respect that. i hate arguing with military as i personally feel they have earned their stripes frankly, in a way a lot of us will not. i know what i feel, and i dont subjigate that opinion, but at the same time it is obvious that you have a deep conscience and have honorably done your best to serve your country. OBL is of course a mother of all targets and anyone over the age of 16 chilling with that prick is begging for a bullet. i see children as children, as in killing one is killing all of them. if 11 white american kids where in that house with the terrorist, or indeed in a house with the boston bomber, we sure as **** wouldnt pull the trigger. the real falacy isnt a false equivalency imo, its a false distinction between what we collectively seem to consider to be an innocent child. but im not here to argue with you. to make this a little less american, ive met guys that served in northern ireland, who in one sentence were talking of their respect in a combat sense for the ira, and in the next sentence were talking about revenge attacks on catholic civilians and hinting at some of the extremely dark actions of the british gov and the british secret service in those times. war does certainly dehumanises people. its a messed up thing. one only has to google "dagestan massacre- youtube" to appreciate that. you seem to be a very thoughtful person who served his nation to the best of his ability at all times. whatever our differences in perspective, i have valued your contribution to this thread.

 

[Medusa]

maybe syrian children are more important

 

[yo1]

maybe syrian children are more important

i honestly dont know what the latest is there. i heard something about chemical weapons and something about AQ being our newest BFF allies in the region. Its hard to keep up with the bad guys sometimes. Military intervention is going to kill civilians and its going to change the structure of the country. However, its telling that some wars are remembered as good and some are remembered as bad. Libya was a well fought intervention, however it turned out. Others went **** shaped. Its often shameful that soldiers can be good, and regardless of merit still be remembered solely for the cultural popularity of the war they were deployed to; but its also a massive issue why wars are fought and how. soldiers sign up, populations dont.

 

[Perotista]

i just dont think any random person has the right to die for someone elses cause. i hold civilian life precious, because it could well be your kids we are talking about.

you sound like a person who has bled for his country, and i respect that. i hate arguing with military as i personally feel they have earned their stripes frankly, in a way a lot of us will not. i know what i feel, and i dont subjigate that opinion, but at the same time it is obvious that you have a deep conscience and have honorably done your best to serve your country. OBL is of course a mother of all targets and anyone over the age of 16 chilling with that prick is begging for a bullet. i see children as children, as in killing one is killing all of them, but im not here to argue with you. to make this a little less american, ive met guys that served in northern ireland, who in one sentence were talking of their respect in a combat sense for the ira, and in the next sentence were talking about revenge attacks on catholic civilians and hinting at some of the extremely dark actions of the british gov and the british secret service in those times. war does certainly dehumanises people. its a messed up thing. one only has to google "dagestan massacre- youtube" to appreciate that. whatever our differences in perspective, i have valued your contribution to this thread.

I appreciate that you have taken some value from what I said. most folks do not listen to us old foggies anymore. Yeah, there are times I wonder if it was all worth it, if we, I mean the soldier wasn't just a pawn in the game of geopolitics. Regardless, I have to think that me, all those soldiers that came before me and all that will come after me are one of the main reasons that you and I are sitting at our computer and typing away at, no I mean with each other with the freedom to say exactly what we want to each other.

War is dehumanizing, it is ugly, it sucks and you can throw in a ton of other words. But sometimes I think, maybe I have to think it, the alternative to war, of doing nothing can be worse than war itself. But what our government, any government for that matter must make sure that no war is entered into lightly and that all else has failed. What we can not do and I may have been guilty of this at times., is to look at death, those killed as numbers on a piece of paper or in a report. But there are times when death must come to some so others might live. Perhaps one of my favorite sci-fi characters put it best, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or the few." Perhaps, but let's hope it never has to come down to that. Good night my friend.

 

[yo1]

I appreciate that you have taken some value from what I said. most folks do not listen to us old foggies anymore. Yeah, there are times I wonder if it was all worth it, if we, I mean the soldier wasn't just a pawn in the game of geopolitics. Regardless, I have to think that me, all those soldiers that came before me and all that will come after me are one of the main reasons that you and I are sitting at our computer and typing away at, no I mean with each other with the freedom to say exactly what we want to each other.

War is dehumanizing, it is ugly, it sucks and you can throw in a ton of other words. But sometimes I think, maybe I have to think it, the alternative to war, of doing nothing can be worse than war itself. But what our government, any government for that matter must make sure that no war is entered into lightly and that all else has failed. What we can not do and I may have been guilty of this at times., is to look at death, those killed as numbers on a piece of paper or in a report. But there are times when death must come to some so others might live. Perhaps one of my favorite sci-fi characters put it best, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or the few." Perhaps, but let's hope it never has to come down to that. Good night my friend.

If you ever meet someone who doesnt get it, tell them to google that dagestan massacre and ask them how they would handle that prospect. Its quite satisfying to know that apparently spetnaz hunted the bastards down like dogs a month later. I know thats an extreme example, but the sheer divorce from the world we see as "everything" and the absolute transgression outside of borders so many dont even know exist...thats something people dont get. they simply dont see that world in their lives.

i do think its funny that one soldier gets sent to germany and becomes a hero and one goes elsewhere and gets hated. lions led by donkeys as they say. throughout history, a good soldier is always a champion of their flag, their people and their values, and if you look at life and you look at history, thats a special breed however you look at it.

indeed, cheers for the contribution and for doing your bit to make sure the west can sleep easy. there have been times of course, when that was not a given.

take care.

 

[Ray410]

If you have to go back centuries in time, to the Crusades, to justify your position on something, you really have no point at all.

The problem the Muslims have in the United States, even beyond their overwhelming homicidal tendencies, is that Americans no longer fall for the immigrant line of "As Americans, you have to prove to us that you love us because we're new here."

In the United States, you live with the reputation that you have earned. Take it or leave it, we don't care.

 

[ReformCollege]

1 Why do they always seem to characterise muslims, by the actions of a few people. A quarter of the planet is muslim. This makes no sense.

2 Why does American mainstream media sit easy with the fact 11 kids got slaughtered by a drone strike, but the whole thing goes nuts when someone blows up a marathon. That happens every day in Afghan and Pakistan.

3 Why are so many ignorant people churned out on the internet, hating one of the worlds great faiths, when the chances are they dont know any muslims, as america has 0.5% muslim populace.

4 Why is it never observed that muslims are over represented in the armed forces.

5 Why is someone who came to America at age 9, considered an outsider, when every thing we know, tells us his culture is american?

1. I don't see anyone characterizing all muslims by the actions of a few extremists. I see everyone characterizing all muslim extremists by the actions of all muslim extremists. But, I will counter with this. Maher To Defender Of Islam: Equating Christianity And Islam "Liberal Bullshit" - YouTube

2. I don't know, maybe because its our media? They have their media to go ape **** over that sort of stuff.

3, 4. See point 1.

5. Like who? I only consider those who act like outsiders to be outsiders. Wanting to be accepted is all I need to accept someone. Personally speaking.

 

[yo1]

If you have to go back centuries in time, to the Crusades, to justify your position on something, you really have no point at all.

The problem the Muslims have in the United States, even beyond their overwhelming homicidal tendencies, is that Americans no longer fall for the immigrant line of "As Americans, you have to prove to us that you love us because we're new here."

In the United States, you live with the reputation that you have earned. Take it or leave it, we don't care.

there is so much wrong with that, i dont know where to start. im tired and i just had a decent exchange with someone who actually fought in wars.

muslim population of usa is 0.5%. you are talking about civilians and frankly they have hardly been increasing since 9/11. "the line" is the media bs you lapped up.

as stated previously, what have they done for your country? well for a start they are over represented in your military unlike a few religions who are notoriously absent, but ever present in politics.

the reputation you carry is the one the media puts on you.

as for the rest of the planet, you simply arent in a position to pretend to understand 25% of its inhabitants, when you have 0.5% representation domestically. it looks ridiculous how normal boring people are subject to subhuman dehumanisation attempts and treated like aliens by americas media. it discredits america and makes it a sick joke. i literally had to check my kebab shop for suicide bombs after falling asleep with fox news on. then my cab driver. then my bus driver. then 100 people i walked past. then a load of people on the train and at uni, then the guy in the shop behind the till, then the customers in the shop.

you get the point. its insanity bud. it really ****in is.