There is only one way we can all agree George's new ballot law is an attempt at voter suppression ...

[Cameron]

The bottom line here for liberals is in maintaining "mail in ballots".....the simple reason is an increased vote count of over 500% coming from mail in ballots. They initiated this because of the pandemic, but the left wants it to stay, and any and all objections are met with the "racist" accusation. Ga is going back to a more protected vote with much higher integrity, instead of keeping the total mail in ballot approach, as they desire to keep voter integrity and has nothing to do with race, but in preventing fraud. The left is crying like babies shouting racist to all who require black people to show an ID to vote.....are you telling me a vast majority of black Americans, in this day and age have no ID?.....are you serious? If not, it's time they are welcome to the advantages of having an ID, for it opens up many advantages for them to improve their lives.....yet it's the left who do not want them to have this.....we must ask ourselves, why?

Presenting an ID to vote is not racist.....if the problem is in the number of polling stations, then speak to your state, request more info, and work to have more polling places available, instead of shouting "you are racist" at every drop of a coin. You only make yourselves look foolish and childish.

If the GOP had contented themselves to ID restrictions you and others in this thread would have a much more solid argument.

 

[NatMorton]

Why do you think that? You're the only one arguing this.

You don't even understand that there's more to this law!

I've stated what I think. I do not find blacks inherently inferior, thus I do not see voter suppression in ballot integrity initiatives when they apply equally to all citizens. If you cannot understand that simple, clear statement, then I cannot help you.

 

[NatMorton]

And you are cherry picking issues, making a mockery of the issue of voting all while being racist doing so.

No, I'm pointing out an inconvenient flaw the left's self-serving (and ultimately destructive) voter suppression arguments. Sorry if I'm spoiling the ride for you.

 

[noonereal]

... and that is if we first agree that some meaningful percentage of Georgia's African American community is so clueless, so lazy, and/or so helpless that they cannot be relied upon to acquire an ID freely given by George's state government.

I, for one, cannot -- and will not -- base my opinions on the manifestly racist assertion that so many blacks are incompetent. How about you?

Yes, black Americans are far too clueless, lazy and helpless to be allowed food and water in long voter lines.
Indeed they are far to clueless, lazy and helpless to be allowed to vote on Sundays, by mail or after work.

Your posts is so insulting that it caused rage in me. It's teh kind of thing you wished was like a Hollywood Movie and the person said it in person so one could more fully react.

Peace

 

[NatMorton]

Here's what I'm asking for, NatMorton:

I want you to apply the same level of scrutiny and skepticism to voting restrictions that you would for gun restrictions. Check the details, figure out what was done, why it was done, and how it was done. Also look at adjacent efforts by the state executive agencies to see how it interacts. I want you to stop trusting your government so implicitly.

Imagine a Democrat was in charge of changing the laws. You'd look for ways they were trying to tilt the election against Republicans, right?

That is a fair question.

I support common sense gun regulation as I think irresponsible gun ownership is a problem. I also support common sense ballot integrity issues, because elections not only need to be fair, they also need to be seen as fair. The assertion that a freely given government voting ID is somehow an undue burden on poor black voters is ridiculous beyond belief, especially when one considers that enrollment to nearly every (every?) government assistance program for the poor requires proof of identity.

Clear enough for you?

 

[MAGAnificent]

... and that is if we first agree that some meaningful percentage of Georgia's African American community is so clueless, so lazy, and/or so helpless that they cannot be relied upon to acquire an ID freely given by George's state government.

I, for one, cannot -- and will not -- base my opinions on the manifestly racist assertion that so many blacks are incompetent. How about you?

I agree. What the libruls are practicing is the bigotry of low expectations.

 

[Cameron]

No, I'm pointing out an inconvenient flaw the left's self-serving (and ultimately destructive) voter suppression arguments. Sorry if I'm spoiling the ride for you.

As I noted, your arguments apply only to the voter ID piece of the legislation, and ignore everything else in the legislation and everything else that has been going on in Georgia and many other states for years (e.g., limited polling places, now limiting food and water at polling places with long lines, decreasing early voting, making it more difficult to vote absentee, etc.). I notice you ignored my first post in this regard. I guess acknowledging it would spoil the ride for you?

 

[NatMorton]

The rest of us know the actual reasons are different than that.

That's fine, and I've given you and others here ample opportunity to tell us -- specifically -- what some of those "actual reasons" are. The lot of you keep dodging this question.

 

[Deuce]

I've stated what I think. I do not find blacks inherently inferior, thus I do not see voter suppression in ballot integrity initiatives when they apply equally to all citizens. If you cannot understand that simple, clear statement, then I cannot help you.

You don't think black people are inherently inferior, you just coincidentally can't think of a single other reason laws like this could affect them more adversely.

If you cannot understand that there are other possible explanations, then I cannot help you.

Are you willing to listen to an alternative explanation?

 

[OrphanSlug]

No, I'm pointing out an inconvenient flaw the left's self-serving (and ultimately destructive) voter suppression arguments. Sorry if I'm spoiling the ride for you.

Very few buy your "inconvenient flaw" bit, and there is a plethora to this new law you are purposefully ignoring.

But by all means keep giving yourself the victory that also very few buy.

 

[lwf]

... and that is if we first agree that some meaningful percentage of Georgia's African American community is so clueless, so lazy, and/or so helpless that they cannot be relied upon to acquire an ID freely given by George's state government.

I, for one, cannot -- and will not -- base my opinions on the manifestly racist assertion that so many blacks are incompetent. How about you?

No, people are not too stupid/lazy/clueless to get a free state ID. But people can be too busy working several part time jobs to stand in line for hours on a work day while they aren't getting paid in order to vote at the only voting location within 50 miles of their home, simply because it's never open at a convenient time.

When the above inconveniences are intentional and wielded strategically to disfranchise poor minority voters from voting, you have voter suppression. Voter suppression does not prevent people from voting by law, it discourages people from voting by making it as inconvenient as possible within the bounds of the law. In a representative democracy, voting should be encouraged and made easier. Making it as inconvenient as possible for certain demographics for political gain under false pretenses of "election security" is anti-democracy and anti-American.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Water may be provided!!! Stop with this disinformation and READ the actual bill!
Do you really believe black people are so incapable of caring for themselves and functioning in society, that they can't figure out that a bottle of water, snack and lawn chair will make them more comfortable if they have to wait.
Hell, I had all of the above when I spend 4 hours waiting to vote in November (actually it was late Oct.)...and DEPENDS!
Nothing was going to make me leave that line.
It doesn't take a genius to figure this shit out.

The libruls are bing intellectually dishonest. What they do not want to give up is the electioneering they do while handing out those bottles of water and free pizza.

 

[Middle_Ground]

A law that allows the Legislature to simply remove the Sec of State, State Election Officials and County election Boards from the process and insert itself in a position to simply flip election results that it does not like is inherently fraught with the very real risk of voter disenfranchisement, the most despicable form of voter suppression.

it appears that in the revisions of this law taken on willy nilly and both passed and signed in one day does make "signatures" a less significant determinant of Elector Legitimacy for absentee ballot application though It is unclear to me whether they have simply folded signature discrepancy into that whole host of other hoops to jump through.

The food and drink provisions in the new law are absurd on their face. If they did not want people soliciting votes, then don't allow them to solicit votes while handing out food and/or drink. Preventing the handing out of food or drink is ridiculous.

Still and all, allowing the Legislature to flip an election on its ear simply running over the County Election Boards and the entire State Election Apparatus at least IMO is the most onerous set of provisions in the entire Bill.

The whole legislature take over the election thing is the worst most suppressive and authoritarian thing in the law while everyone is focusing on water and id. Id for voting in Georgia has been the law the whole food and water thing while stupid is not a big deal.
My question for Georgia Republicans is will you be okay with this when you are not the majority?
Remember Virginia

 

[BlueTex]

That is a fair question.

I support common sense gun regulation as I think irresponsible gun ownership is a problem. I also support common sense ballot integrity issues, because elections not only need to be fair, they also need to be seen as fair. The assertion that a freely given government voting ID is somehow an undue burden on poor black voters is ridiculous beyond belief, especially when one considers that enrollment to nearly every (every?) government assistance program for the poor requires proof of identity.

Clear enough for you?

So you support universal background checks? Universal registration?

 

[Deuce]

That's fine, and I've given you and others here ample opportunity to tell us -- specifically -- what some of those "actual reasons" are. The lot of you keep dodging this question.

You haven't asked the question, you've declared the conclusion.

Poverty is the answer. Poverty makes it harder to acquire these IDs, and it makes it harder to find the time to do so. Poor people often work way, way more hours than you do.

Now, you have to add other efforts to the pile to understand it. So what you do is reduce the hours that the office runs to get that free voting ID.... and coincidentally reduce hours in black neighborhoods only. Maybe even close the offices down and consolidate them, so an area with a million people living in it now only has one office instead of five. And the hours are reduced. So the line gets long, it takes an entire day to get the ID now. A day these people don't have, because they have to work. Meanwhile, in the conservative white suburb? The hours are expanded, there's more offices per capita, takes 15 minutes to get an ID. Hell, the DMV in my area had me in and out in ten minutes when I renewed my tabs last time.

Then what you do is make sure the IDs they do have come off the list. An ID used to collect TANF or SNAP benefits? Well that's used by poor people who are disproportionately black, so lets take that off the list.

Now, lets reduce the actual voting access. Fewer voting precincts in black neighborhoods, more voting precincts in white neighborhoods. Make the lines longer for black people. Have you ever had to stand in line for six hours to vote? I haven't. I'd sure want some water, though.

So, tell me NatMortorn, what part of the above makes you think black people are stupid?

 

[lwf]

No, not really. While it may be mistaken, it's not a lie if one truly believes blacks are incapable of thinking ahead and bringing a bottle of water. Those shouting "voter suppression!" may genuinely believe blacks to be so helpless. The only question that remains is why they think that.

It's not a mistake either. The new law explicitly gives officials the legal authority to charge people with misdemeanors if they are caught, for whatever reason, providing food or water to voters within 150 feet of a building where people are casting ballots.

 

[NatMorton]

Are you willing to listen to an alternative explanation?

Willing?? I must have posted at least a half-dozen replies in this thread asking for them. So by all means, let's hear it. Tell me why a freely provided government voting ID is an undue burden on a black voter.

 

[NatMorton]

Very few buy your "inconvenient flaw" bit, and there is a plethora to this new law you are purposefully ignoring.

But by all means keep giving yourself the victory that also very few buy.

I don't care who "buys" it. Either you and others who think as you do can come up with credible reasons why black voters cannot follow these new requirements or you cannot. Which is it?

 

[Variant]

It's not a mistake either. The new law explicitly gives officials the legal authority to charge people with misdemeanors if they are caught, for whatever reason, providing food or water to voters within 150 feet of a building where people are casting ballots.

In and of itself it wouldn't be an issue, however, for some reason, polling places are much rarer in Georgia in heavily populated urban districts leading to long lines and a hassle voting.

Providing food and drink here is an attempt to help keep people in those needlessly long lines.

I would go with some nonviolent resistance on this point and simply provide the food anyway.

 

[NatMorton]

So you support universal background checks? Universal registration?

Yes, I do.

 

[Variant]

I don't care who "buys" it. Either you and others who think as you do can come up with credible reasons why black voters cannot follow these new requirements or you cannot. Which is it?

The laws are to make voting more of a hassle in an attempt to suppress voting.

 

[NatMorton]

Poverty is the answer. Poverty makes it harder to acquire these IDs

Then help me out here. Why do we require proof of identification for government aid programs?

 

[BlueTex]

Yes, I do.

Would you support limits on when/where you can buy guns or ammo?

 

[NatMorton]

The laws are to make voting more of a hassle in an attempt to suppress voting.

How are they less of a hassle for white people?

 

[Variant]

How are they less of a hassle for white people?

White people have more polling places per capita.