There is absolute proof that the DELUGE actually happened

[devildavid]

How exactly did the human species come to be? Did we just spontaneously appear by the thousands?

The human species wasn’t the result of a straw man.

 

[Maccabee]

this has been fully explained.

ask yourself if scientists could create life with all their Intelligence and expensive Laboratory gear, don't you think they would?

That's like asking if the greeks and romans were so smart, why didn't they created powered flight or the iPhone. It could simply be we don't possess the technology/knowledge to create life yet.

if this is possible, where did the Intelligence and power come from to do this millions of years ago?

There's an actual evolutionary explanation as to how humans became an advanced intelligent species if you actually care to listen. Basically the environment drove us from the trees and allowed us to perfect our hunter/gatherer crafts and that, in turn, helped us eventually get into farming. Bigger stable food sources creates bigger brains which allows us to create better ways of farming which produced bigger stable yields, which produced bigger brains and the process repeats itself

it makes sense that the Superior intelligence is God.

Or...

Evolution of human intelligence - Wikipedia https://share.google/8qDVPwvVXmBo04wBn

no amount of lucky accidents could create life, with no engineering and fore thought.

And how would you know that?

so basically get a Logical Argument with your self: what makes more Logical sense to you? was everything logically and Intelligently created, or was it a big happy accident.

A super intelligent being creating the universe, especially a being that is directly involved in our daily lives, would leave mountains of evidence. Where is this evidence?

that is where Genesis starts.

and yes i studied biology in high school and college, but i also look at things with my Reasoning still intact.


blessings.


.

Apparently you didn't paid attention, then.

 

[roguenuke]

So prove that biological life can be manufactured from inert substances. If that is impossible then GOD did it.

It's not impossible. They have created the base components of biology from inorganic material. They have found it in space. We know it can be done.

The main issue is that the conditions required are not currently found here on Earth, and we don't know exactly what they are to recreate them. There is no evidence of it being impossible at all. And even if we couldn't do it, that wouldn't mean that "god did it", particularly not your version of any god.

 

[LittleNipper]

In what way?

Because everything else in science and history either doesn't confirm a deity of any kind, let alone the God of the Bible interpreted by modern Christianity, or often points AGAINST the idea altogether. If a god created everything, he's either uninvolved with our daily lives or he exists and every religion, including Christianity, are wildly off the mark as to who he is and what his character is.

I feel you have been exposed to propaganda against what appears not only relevant regarding Israel and Christianity but answers all the issues regarding the middle east.

The thing is, the robot would basically trip over MOUNTAINS of evidence of our existence. We have videos, texts, buildings, etc pointing to our existence.

The FLOOD has loads of fossils and strata that indicates tsunami and buckled crust, and yet most scientists are Uniformatarianists. Yet they cannot seem to explain how bodies lying around on the ground could possibly turn into a fossils and why there are sooooooooooo many, when there are only rare instances that cause fossils to form. GOD has nature and HIS Word. Romans 1:20 For HIS invisible attributes, namely, HIS eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

 

[LittleNipper]

Which just tells me that the story of Jesus was also exaggerated and if he did exist, then he was just as ignorant as everyone else.

Romans 1:20 For HIS invisible attributes, namely, HIS eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

3 pieces of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ

Was Jesus a real historical figure? Here's what we know.

bigthink.com

 

[roguenuke]

Romans 1:20 For HIS invisible attributes, namely, HIS eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Nope. This is just part of circular reasoning. You can't prove your biblical person existed by using the bible. That's not evidence.

There's more evidence for Abraham Lincoln having hunted vampires than biblical Jesus.

 

[Revelation]

In what way?

Mac, mr Nipper just gave you a Gold Mine of end times videos, and i may steal them myself.

but look at his Logic, these videos present all the PROOF you are asking for.

Nipper is very skilled in Bible, more PROOF that God is talking to you. we need to appreciate a guy like Nipper who takes his time sharing High Level expertise on this Back Water forum.

this is not by Accident either.

Because everything else in science and history either doesn't confirm a deity of any kind, let alone the God of the Bible interpreted by modern Christianity, or often points AGAINST the idea altogether. If a god created everything, he's either uninvolved with our daily lives or he exists and every religion, including Christianity, are wildly off the mark as to who he is and what his character is.

God allows you Free Will to jump off the Cliff if you care to do that. he also offers you enuf evidence that he is there if you Care to look.

yur problem? lack of effort.

Jesus said you must Strive to enter the kingdom of heaven. why? cause you carry Sin Baggage and deceptions weighing you down; you wanna be your own god.

but you are not good enuf to be god. End of Story.


Luke 13:24 (KJV):
"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

• The Greek word used here is "agonizomai," which means to struggle, contend, or fight with effort—implying earnestness and determination.
• 
  
• "Strait" means narrow or difficult, not to be confused with "straight." It suggests that entering the kingdom of God requires effort, sincerity, and commitment.
• 
  
• He emphasizes that not everyone who desires to enter will succeed; it requires genuine striving and not just casual interest.
• https://www.perplexity.ai/search/kjv-strive-to-enter-the-kingdo-LBiSfIBTRX2xn8mDE39Atw

The thing is, the robot would basically trip over MOUNTAINS of evidence of our existence. We have videos, texts, buildings, etc pointing to our existence.

 

[Maccabee]

It would help a lot if you give a brief synopsis of key points rather than just spamming videos for me to seethe through. Be that as it may, I watched the first video which doesn't really give substantial evidence of prophecies pointing to the modern creation of Israel. It's an oversimplification of historical events to fulfill a narrative.

I feel you have been exposed to propaganda against what appears not only relevant regarding Israel and Christianity but answers all the issues regarding the middle east.

An omnipotent, omniscient, omni benevolent being that cares about humanity should be impervious to mere mortal "propaganda" would he not? If you think I've been duped by propaganda then please provide evidence. Let's start with the flood. Why are all the scientists in their respective fields are wrong about the age of the earth and the flood and why are you the only one with the truth?

The FLOOD has loads of fossils and strata that indicates tsunami and buckled crust, and yet most scientists are Uniformatarianists.

And why do you think that is?

Yet they cannot seem to explain how bodies lying around on the ground could possibly turn into a fossils and why there are sooooooooooo many, when there are only rare instances that cause fossils to form.

Why does it have to be a global flood and not millions of years of smaller catastrophic events that result in rapid burial. In fact more importantly, the fact that fossilization is a rare event that requires special conditions in order to create a fossil is itself a testament AGAINST a global flood that happened 4,400 years ago. We should basically be tripping over fossils on our way to work considering that 95% of all life are now extinct. You still haven't addressed the heat problem I laid out in my previous post. In case you missed it, here it is again.

GOD has nature and HIS Word. Romans 1:20 For HIS invisible attributes, namely, HIS eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Cool, prove it.

 

[Maccabee]

Mac, mr Nipper just gave you a Gold Mine of end times videos, and i may steal them myself.

but look at his Logic, these videos present all the PROOF you are asking for.

Be skeptical of those who claim to have absolute PROOF of anything. We deal with evidences. Rarely, if ever, is anything is proven.

Nipper is very skilled in Bible, more PROOF that God is talking to you. we need to appreciate a guy like Nipper who takes his time sharing High Level expertise on this Back Water forum.

this is not by Accident either.

That is laughable considering I can, and have, make better arguments for YEC than what I've seen here. You see, I was once a staunch Christian and a young earth creationist. I followed the likes of Kent Hovind and Ken Ham almost religiously. I loved getting into creation vs evolution debates on forums such as this. You can even dig up my old posts if you have the time. The attempts I see here to defend the creation model are lackluster, to say the least. I made the effort to research the counter arguments made by those were on the evolution side and at least attempted to give an answer. I'm simply not seeing that effort here.

God allows you Free Will to jump off the Cliff if you care to do that. he also offers you enuf evidence that he is there if you Care to look.

Such as?

yur problem? lack of effort.

Again, laughable if you knew my history. I wasn't just a believer because of my parents. I was a believer because I "researched" and thought that the evidence was on my side.

Jesus said you must Strive to enter the kingdom of heaven. why? cause you carry Sin Baggage and deceptions weighing you down; you wanna be your own god.

but you are not good enuf to be god. End of Story.


Luke 13:24 (KJV):
"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

• The Greek word used here is "agonizomai," which means to struggle, contend, or fight with effort—implying earnestness and determination.
• 
  
• "Strait" means narrow or difficult, not to be confused with "straight." It suggests that entering the kingdom of God requires effort, sincerity, and commitment.
• 
  
• He emphasizes that not everyone who desires to enter will succeed; it requires genuine striving and not just casual interest.
• https://www.perplexity.ai/search/kjv-strive-to-enter-the-kingdo-LBiSfIBTRX2xn8mDE39Atw

Prove or provide evidence for God's existence, then.

 

[911Sparky]

So prove that biological life can be manufactured from inert substances. If that is impossible then GOD did it.

More nonsense.

 

[LittleNipper]

It would help a lot if you give a brief synopsis of key points rather than just spamming videos for me to seethe through. Be that as it may, I watched the first video which doesn't really give substantial evidence of prophecies pointing to the modern creation of Israel. It's an oversimplification of historical events to fulfill a narrative.

I want you to come to your own conclusion. I've already told you what I think, and the reason I chose the videos is because I tend to fit the same mold.

An omnipotent, omniscient, omni benevolent being that cares about humanity should be impervious to mere mortal "propaganda" would he not? If you think I've been duped by propaganda then please provide evidence. Let's start with the flood. Why are all the scientists in their respective fields are wrong about the age of the earth and the flood and why are you the only one with the truth?

GOD is impervious, but you're not and neither were Adam & Eve when it came to Satan... The scientists in their fields respect their instructors. They do not investigate every aspect of science, and so they accept what various well known individuals have to say fitting to their own parameters.

And why do you think that is?

I'm not the only one who believes that Creationism is a reasonable rebuttal to Abiogenesis, Uniformitarianism and Evolution. And most importantly, I have faith in the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Why does it have to be a global flood and not millions of years of smaller catastrophic events that result in rapid burial. In fact more importantly, the fact that fossilization is a rare event that requires special conditions in order to create a fossil is itself a testament AGAINST a global flood that happened 4,400 years ago. We should basically be tripping over fossils on our way to work considering that 95% of all life are now extinct. You still haven't addressed the heat problem I laid out in my previous post. In case you missed it, here it is again.

How so? The global Flood would be the perfect scenario. Lots of bodies, plenty of silt, tons of water pressure, tsunamis... And imagine that many organisms alive right before the FLOOD likely were fossilized in one way or another. Plus there are those unexplainable polystrate tree fossils that run vertically through many layers of strata. I already know that some anticreationists have a possible explanation; however, some of the trees are found upside-down or at peculiar angles, without roots and rather tall. This for the evolutionist is a problem. But aside from that, Evolutionists continually badger Creationists by saying they use the Bible and then make the data fit their belief. HOWEVER, isn't that exactly what the evolutionist does when he encounters a "problem"? Doesn't he in fact think of some possibility which will allow him to continue to substantiate evolution and perhaps make the problem go away?

Cool, prove it.

Well here is a consideration:

1. At the beginning of the Flood, the earth is divided internally into core, mantle, and crust, essentially as it is today, though the mantle is postulated to have been less viscous than it is now. The crust is differentiated horizontally between stable, sialic, cratonic crust on the continents, and denser mafic (probably basaltic) ocean crust;
2. Although no specific initiating event is proposed, the major action begins with slabs of oceanic crust breaking loose and subducting along thousands of kilometers of pre-Flood continental margins. The subducting slabs deform and thus heat the mantle locally, which reduces the viscosity locally, in turn leading to a faster subduction rate. Thus, a positive feedback loop is established between increasing subduction rate, increasing dissipative heating, and decreasing local viscosity, leading to subduction rates measured in meters per second;
3. The above thermal runaway mechanism produces several important consequences, notably (1) global overturning of the mantle; (2) a major rise in sea levels and hence the inundation of the continents; (3) continental collisions; (4) the formation of long ocean-floor spreading centers caused by subduction-induced stretching of the ocean crust. At these spreading centers upwelling mantle material degasses its volatiles and vaporizes ocean water. This would produce linear geysers of superheated gases along the whole length of the spreading centers. These gases would cool by radiation into space, the water they contain condensing and falling as intense global rain;

The continues below where you will find the article listed.

 

[911Sparky]

He says as he closes his eyes, sticks his fingers in his ears, and goes la, la, la, la, la.

Nah, I'm far too pragmatic to buy into your little scheme.

 

[LittleNipper]

4. Thus the fountains of the great deep and the windows of heaven (Genesis 7:11 and 8:2) are interpreted in this CPT model in terms of the above-postulated linear geysers; water displaced onto the continents by the freshly raised ocean floors is also suggested as a possible water source. Austin et al. (1994) also suggest, referring to Genesis 7:24–8:2, that the latter would have remained a source of water for up to 150 days;

5. Rapid plate motion would have ceased when virtually all the pre-Flood oceanic floor had been replaced with new, less-dense, less-subductible rock. The lack of new, hot mantle material would have stopped the spreading-center geysers and resulting global rain. Austin et al. (1994) refer this point in time to Genesis 8:2;

6. Warm oceans immediately after the Flood follow naturally from this CPT scenario, and form an essential part of Oard’s (1990) model of an Ice Age in a young-earth framework. Present-day isostatic crustal movements, earthquakes and volcanoes also follow naturally as representing “relict Flood dynamics.”

For the full explanation please consider reading this article: https://answersresearchjournal.org/noahs-flood/heat-problems-flood-models-4/

 

[LittleNipper]

Nah, I'm far too pragmatic to buy into your little scheme.

Perhaps "too dogmatic". Besides, what scheme? I have literally nothing to gain.

 

[911Sparky]

Perhaps "too dogmatic". Besides, what scheme? I have literally nothing to gain.

Which of us more dogmatic, the one who doesn't believe in a god, but is willing to let others believe as they choose, or the one who spends every
day trying to convince or shame others into believing as they do?

 

[Maccabee]

I want you to come to your own conclusion. I've already told you what I think, and the reason I chose the videos is because I tend to fit the same mold.



GOD is impervious, but you're not and neither were Adam & Eve when it came to Satan...

Then wouldn't it be logical for God to make it obvious for everyone that he created the universe? Why doesn't he have the stars aligned to spell out "MADE BY GOD OF THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE"?

The scientists in their fields respect their instructors. They do not investigate every aspect of science, and so they accept what various well known individuals have to say fitting to their own parameters.

And thus, you demonstrated your lack of knowledge on how scientists come to their conclusions. They don't just blindly follow their instructors. They go out of their way to test the things they're taught and trying to prove it wrong.

I'm not the only one who believes that Creationism is a reasonable rebuttal to Abiogenesis, Uniformitarianism and Evolution. And most importantly, I have faith in the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Their are lot of people who believe that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it true.

How so? The global Flood would be the perfect scenario. Lots of bodies, plenty of silt, tons of water pressure, tsunamis... And imagine that many organisms alive right before the FLOOD likely were fossilized in one way or another.

And that is the demise of your own argument. Fossils and the areas where you can likely find them are actually rare. A global flood would create those conditions globally. A fossil site should be as common as your backyard.

Plus there are those unexplainable polystrate tree fossils that run vertically through many layers of strata. I already know that some anticreationists have a possible explanation; however, some of the trees are found upside-down or at peculiar angles, without roots and rather tall. This for the evolutionist is a problem.

Did you actually looked into why "anti creationists" rejects your interpretation or did you just took the word of the likes of Kent Hovind or Ken Ham? In case you haven't, this video explains it better.

But aside from that, Evolutionists continually badger Creationists by saying they use the Bible and then make the data fit their belief. HOWEVER, isn't that exactly what the evolutionist does when he encounters a "problem"?

No because scientists go out of their way to falsify their hypothesis.

Doesn't he in fact think of some possibility which will allow him to continue to substantiate evolution and perhaps make the problem go away?


Well here is a consideration:

1. At the beginning of the Flood, the earth is divided internally into core, mantle, and crust, essentially as it is today, though the mantle is postulated to have been less viscous than it is now. The crust is differentiated horizontally between stable, sialic, cratonic crust on the continents, and denser mafic (probably basaltic) ocean crust;
2. Although no specific initiating event is proposed, the major action begins with slabs of oceanic crust breaking loose and subducting along thousands of kilometers of pre-Flood continental margins. The subducting slabs deform and thus heat the mantle locally, which reduces the viscosity locally, in turn leading to a faster subduction rate. Thus, a positive feedback loop is established between increasing subduction rate, increasing dissipative heating, and decreasing local viscosity, leading to subduction rates measured in meters per second;
3. The above thermal runaway mechanism produces several important consequences, notably (1) global overturning of the mantle; (2) a major rise in sea levels and hence the inundation of the continents; (3) continental collisions; (4) the formation of long ocean-floor spreading centers caused by subduction-induced stretching of the ocean crust. At these spreading centers upwelling mantle material degasses its volatiles and vaporizes ocean water. This would produce linear geysers of superheated gases along the whole length of the spreading centers. These gases would cool by radiation into space, the water they contain condensing and falling as intense global rain;

The continues below where you will find the article listed.

This completely ignores the heat problem. Did you actually looked at your own sources?

 

[Maccabee]

4. Thus the fountains of the great deep and the windows of heaven (Genesis 7:11 and 8:2) are interpreted in this CPT model in terms of the above-postulated linear geysers; water displaced onto the continents by the freshly raised ocean floors is also suggested as a possible water source. Austin et al. (1994) also suggest, referring to Genesis 7:24–8:2, that the latter would have remained a source of water for up to 150 days;

5. Rapid plate motion would have ceased when virtually all the pre-Flood oceanic floor had been replaced with new, less-dense, less-subductible rock. The lack of new, hot mantle material would have stopped the spreading-center geysers and resulting global rain. Austin et al. (1994) refer this point in time to Genesis 8:2;

6. Warm oceans immediately after the Flood follow naturally from this CPT scenario, and form an essential part of Oard’s (1990) model of an Ice Age in a young-earth framework. Present-day isostatic crustal movements, earthquakes and volcanoes also follow naturally as representing “relict Flood dynamics.”

For the full explanation please consider reading this article: https://answersresearchjournal.org/noahs-flood/heat-problems-flood-models-4/

Again, completely ignores the heat problem laid out in my previous posts.

 

[roguenuke]

Again, completely ignores the heat problem laid out in my previous posts.

The only way they have to "explain" the heat problem is "miracle", which completely invalidates any earlier attempts to claim evidence or proof of a flood because why bother with proof or evidence if you believe in miracles that can't be proven anyway?

 

[Nickyjo]

Best source on this is Bill Cosby’s old bit on Noah.

 

[Revelation]

Nah, I'm far too pragmatic to buy into your little scheme.

you first have to look at the Evidence presented.

Nipper gave you boat loads, but you are programmed not to receive.

in the End, God will be waiting for you. then what, do you have some science excuse for him why he didn't do what he said he did?


in the End: you lose. not just in this life but in the next as well.


blessings, July 9 almost here.

.

 

[LittleNipper]

Which of us more dogmatic, the one who doesn't believe in a god, but is willing to let others believe as they choose, or the one who spends every
day trying to convince or shame others into believing as they do?

I really do not shame anyone for not believing as I believe. I simply state what I believe and why. Who is trying to shame whom right now? I do point out that there are good and bad choices. However, don't you do the very same? Do you not feel that Creationism is a bad choice and shouldn't be regarded as part of a "science" discussion? I don't hear you say, "Oh, let them talk about Creationism in school and let everyone believe as they wish..." Be honest ----- here you are and exactly what are you attempting to do?

 

[LittleNipper]

Then wouldn't it be logical for God to make it obvious for everyone that he created the universe? Why doesn't he have the stars aligned to spell out "MADE BY GOD OF THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE"?

GOD came to dwell among men 2000 years ago, and what did the "learned" individuals at that time say? Their concern was that they would lose their authority. They got upset even when JESUS made someone blind to see or a cripple to walk on the "Sabbath" day. They were not happy for the healed individuals. They were annoyed that it was done on the Sabbath.

And thus, you demonstrated your lack of knowledge on how scientists come to their conclusions. They don't just blindly follow their instructors. They go out of their way to test the things they're taught and trying to prove it wrong.

Sorry, but unless a scientist is leaning towards Creationism, he already believes the conclusions of scientists in many cases long dead. The evolutionist will build upon the conclusions of others.

Their are lot of people who believe that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it true.

The Bible indicates otherwise. https://www.icr.org/article/earth-round

And that is the demise of your own argument. Fossils and the areas where you can likely find them are actually rare. A global flood would create those conditions globally. A fossil site should be as common as your backyard.

Did you actually looked into why "anti creationists" rejects your interpretation or did you just took the word of the likes of Kent Hovind or Ken Ham? In case you haven't, this video explains it better.

This is no more than an atheist scoffing. If it were as she stated, one would imagine that this would be entirely common ----- it's not. The specimens would feature similar characteristics, and they do not.

No because scientists go out of their way to falsify their hypothesis.

You keep saying that Creation is wrong. Well, if it can be proven wrong, then it must be true..

This completely ignores the heat problem. Did you actually looked at your own sources?

I don't believe that with all that water, and the fact that the earth's surface was so hydrated, that continent slippage would have generated as much heat due to the lubrication.

 

[bomberfox]

The geological strata and the total non uniformity of it indicates the global flood is a myth. Not to mention the extreme pressure and heat such concentrated water would create.

 

[LittleNipper]

The only way they have to "explain" the heat problem is "miracle", which completely invalidates any earlier attempts to claim evidence or proof of a flood because why bother with proof or evidence if you believe in miracles that can't be proven anyway?

How would one prove a miracle? Do you feel that GOD never works within boundaries of nature? Is it wrong when HE does not?

 

[bomberfox]

spelling books don't win debates; please keeep this fight fair.

besides most of us not that good at spellling or english; much of my stuff i throw in and error to keep yur types busy with the non essentials.

get over it. please.


.

Like only creationists say evidences. Its pretty much a telltale sign.