• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The worlds newest dictator

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Yes you're right those evil capitalist bastards and free and open markets that brought true Democracy to the majority of Latin America, Eastern Europe and most of Asia those bastards!Are you mad ?
Click to expand...
How is installing fascist dictators tantamount to democracy ?
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
After his inauguration, Allende began to carry out his platform of implementing sweeping socialist programs in Chile, called La vía chilena al socialismo ("the Chilean Way to Socialism"). This included nationalization of large-scale industries (notably copper mining and banking), a thorough reform of the health care system, a reform of the educational system, a program of free milk for children, and a furthering of his predecessor Eduardo Frei Montalva's agrarian reform.
Click to expand...
So you think the people of S & Central America were far better off under fascists tyrants than someone they elected & that was going to give free milk to school kids & reform the education system right ?
How would you feel if the government of a foreign country meddled in your affairs to the extent of ensuring a dictator took power simply becuase your president wasn't to their liking ?
Democracy is about choice of who governs one. What the CIA innitiated was the antithesis of the democratic process. They took away the choice of the Chilean electorate.
You are as mad as someone that argues the world is flat !
 
Last edited:
robin said:
How is installing fascist dictators tantamount to democracy ?
So you think the people of S & Central America were far better off under fascists tyrants than someone they elected & that was going to give free milk to school kids & reform the education system right ?
How would you feel if the government of a foreign country meddled in your affairs to the extent of ensuring a dictator took power simply becuase your president wasn't to their liking ?
Democracy is about choice of who governs one. What the CIA innitiated was the antithesis of the democratic process. They took away the choice of the Chilean electorate.
You are as mad as someone that argues the world is flat !
Click to expand...


Mad eh, well granted I'll give you that one si. Now have you ever heard of the Green Revolution, modernization, hyper-inflation brought about by corporatism and socialism, how about the fact that Latin America is now 99.8% Democratic? You still have not proven that the U.S. was directly responsible for the Coup attempt only that we wanted Allende gone and that the Soviets wanted him in.
 
Last edited:
robin said:
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/09/19/us.cia.chile.ap/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/chile/story/0,13755,1038615,00.html

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20000919/
Click to expand...


This is all rhetoric and propaganda there is no clear cut case that Allende was removed by the U.S. only that the U.S. wanted him gone and then supported Pinochet after the fact there was no logistical support during the Coup. These are the same tactics being used by Chavez to say that the U.S. perpetrated the coup against him when the fact of the matter is that his own people did it because they want his ass gone. Why don't you give me the actual CIA report acknowledging their involvement, umm probably because there isn't one.


From your own link:

The CIA admits prior knowledge of the plot that overthrew Allende three years later but denies any direct involvement.
 
Last edited:
I think that we have prov ed the case for US intervention. Trajan you are butting you head against the wall here. The majority know what the US did and it was wrong, There is no justifying this. The sourses have been presented to you with claity. Some of the sources may be bias but certainly not this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intervention_in_Chile
because it is a non`partisan source.

And definately not this one:

http://foia.state.gov/Reports/ChurchReport.asp

Because it is an official US government source:

And even the words of former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State agrees that this incedent is a stain on the history of the US, you continue to deny what is evident and backed up by the government's own words. The United States government supported and actively participated in the overthrow of a democratically elected leader and meddled in the soveriegn affairs of a forweign nation. If you want to cherry pick individual phrases and take them out of context that is you right but it's pretty evident that everyone sees through that tactic. In the case of Chavez you do better because all of us are speculating there and the debate is interesting but as far as Chile goes, it's case closed.
 
Inuyasha said:
I think that we have prov ed the case for US intervention. Trajan you are butting you head against the wall here. The majority know what the US did and it was wrong, There is no justifying this. The sourses have been presented to you with claity. Some of the sources may be bias but certainly not this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intervention_in_Chile
because it is a non`partisan source.

And definately not this one:

http://foia.state.gov/Reports/ChurchReport.asp

Because it is an official US government source:

And even the words of former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State agrees that this incedent is a stain on the history of the US, you continue to deny what is evident and backed up by the government's own words. The United States government supported and actively participated in the overthrow of a democratically elected leader and meddled in the soveriegn affairs of a forweign nation. If you want to cherry pick individual phrases and take them out of context that is you right but it's pretty evident that everyone sees through that tactic. In the case of Chavez you do better because all of us are speculating there and the debate is interesting but as far as Chile goes, it's case closed.
Click to expand...

You have not proved your case the only case you have is that the U.S. upped the amount of money given to the Chile for there military under Allende. How is that proof, go ahead the burden is on you, you made the accusation where's the evidence???? And which Joint chief of staff was this ten to one it was a Dem and probably a socialist too, you know that that Ramsey Clark (the guy who's defending Saddam, and Milosevich) was an attorney general, just because they held public office doesn't mean that they don't hate America. I wouldn't put stock in anything of wikepidia anybody can write stuff for it, it's written by its viewers and the church report proves absolutely jack **** other than the U.S. had covert operations in Venezuela nowhere in there is there proof of U.S. involvement in the coup.
 
Last edited:
You have not proved your case the only case you have is that the U.S. upped the amount of money given to the Chile for there military under Allende. How is that proof, go ahead the burden is on you, you made the accusation where's the evidence????
Click to expand...

He's already shown you the evidence. Your just being stubborn.
 
FinnMacCool said:
He's already shown you the evidence. Your just being stubborn.
Click to expand...

no he hasn't shown me the evidence that the U.S. directly supported the coup only that the U.S. wanted Allende gone and that we supported Pinochet after the fact. No proof of direct U.S. involvement, nope, none, zilch zero.
 
Last edited:
I will wait for the others to weigh in on this but I stick to the idea that the case of Chile vs the US has been proven beyond all doubt and we (the US) were in the wrong. There I nothing wrong with admitting a mistake. it is the best way to see that it doesn't happen again. We are not perfect. My insistence on this issue does not however undo all the good things that we have done around the globe. It is one incident and it was a bad choice. As I said, arguing the Chavez thing is more reasonable because there is room for debate. With Chile there isn't.
 
Inuyasha said:
I will wait for the others to weigh in on this but I stick to the idea that the case of Chile vs the US has been proven beyond all doubt and we (the US) were in the wrong. There I nothing wrong with admitting a mistake. it is the best way to see that it doesn't happen again. We are not perfect. My insistence on this issue does not however undo all the good things that we have done around the globe. It is one incident and it was a bad choice. As I said, arguing the Chavez thing is more reasonable because there is room for debate. With Chile there isn't.
Click to expand...

You have not proven your case beyond a shadow of doubt in fact you have not given any proof whatsoever that the U.S. had direct involvement in the overthrow of Mr. Allende. Of course the U.S supported governments and political parties opposed to communism it was the Cold War, the Soviets supported Allende we supported Pinochet, this is not evidence that we placed him in power nor is it evidence that we had direct involvement in the coup.
 
I believe that the U.S. wanted Allende gone, just like we want Castro and Chavez gone, but there is no proof that the U.S. had direct involvement in the coup.
Click to expand...

Screw the evidence. Just tell me if you are so naive as to believe that the US didn't in some way help Pinochet. Stop thinking like a politician.
 
FinnMacCool said:
Screw the evidence. Just tell me if you are so naive as to believe that the US didn't in some way help Pinochet. Stop thinking like a politician.
Click to expand...

First you claim that he has proven the case that we supported the Coup and now you say screw the evidence, come on now buddy.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
You have not proven your case beyond a shadow of doubt in fact you have not given any proof whatsoever that the U.S. had direct involvement in the overthrow of Mr. Allende. Of course the U.S supported governments and political parties opposed to communism it was the Cold War, the Soviets supported Allende we supported Pinochet, this is not evidence that we placed him in power nor is it evidence that we had direct involvement in the coup.
Click to expand...

If you refuse to accept the evidence that more than a half a dozen people have presented you with we are ant an impass.... hung jury. I agree with MacCool in that you are just being stubborn.
 
Inuyasha said:
If you refuse to accept the evidence that more than a half a dozen people have presented you with we are ant an impass.... hung jury. I agree with MacCool in that you are just being stubborn.
Click to expand...

What evidence have you given me, I read the Church report and there is no acknowledgement of U.S. involvement in the coup only that we supported Latin American political parties opposed to communism. Show me the evidence that we supported the coup and I'll concede until then you're damn right I'm going to be stubborn in that you have no case to back your claim.
 
First you claim that he has proven the case that we supported the Coup and now you say screw the evidence, come on now buddy.
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to make you think. The truth is staring right at you and all you have to do is dig a little deeper.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
You have not proven your case beyond a shadow of doubt in fact you have not given any proof whatsoever that the U.S. had direct involvement in the overthrow of Mr. Allende. Of course the U.S supported governments and political parties opposed to communism it was the Cold War, the Soviets supported Allende we supported Pinochet, this is not evidence that we placed him in power nor is it evidence that we had direct involvement in the coup.
Click to expand...
Isn't fomenting a coup bad enough ?
Its' exactly the sort of dirty trick people like Satin & Hitler liked to engage in.
Care to prove the US didn't foment a coup then ?
We're waiting....
 
FinnMacCool said:
I'm just trying to make you think. The truth is staring right at you and all you have to do is dig a little deeper.
Click to expand...

dig a little deeper? I think you've watched bowling for Columbine one to many times, you are under the impression that the claim in and of itself is evidence and if you just make the claim enough times that people should just step in line and except it as fact when the truth is that it isn't fact and you have no evidence to support the claim that the U.S. had direct involvement in the overthrow of Allende.
 
robin said:
Isn't fomenting a coup bad enough ?
Its' exactly the sort of dirty trick people like Satin & Hitler liked to engage in.
Care to prove the US didn't foment a coup then ?
We're waiting....
Click to expand...

Oh really so now I not only have to prove a negative (which is impossible by the way) I now have to disprove your case, do you know anything about the law the burden of proof is on you, you made the claim why don't YOU prove it?
 
dig a little deeper? I think you've watched bowling for Columbine one to many times, you are under the impression that the claim in and of itself is evidence and if you just make the claim enough times that people should just step in line and except it as fact when the truth is that it isn't fact and you have no evidence to support the claim that the U.S. had direct involvement in the overthrow of Allende.
Click to expand...

Bowling for Columbine? No. Reading about history? Yes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom