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The VSS Vintorez

jmotivator said:
Well, I start a thread about the insane silencing capability of the VSS made it very effective for what it's designed to do.. Your first post was to tell you you would not call it very effective as a sniper rifle.

THat is both argumentative and a straw man.
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That was because you were flat out wrong, it is not very effective for what it's designed to do. It was designed to be a sniper rifle, and it sucks in that role. There are dozens of rifles that make much more effective sniper weapons. The VSS is nothing more than a cheaply suppressed sub-sonic pistol, and not a sniper rifle at all.

Then you start flipping out and completely lost your mind when I translated VSS. As if you had absolutely no clue what VSS actually meant.
 
Glitch said:
That was because you were flat out wrong, it is not very effective for what it's designed to do. It was designed to be a sniper rifle, and it sucks in that role. There are dozens of rifles that make much more effective sniper weapons. The VSS is nothing more than a cheaply suppressed sub-sonic pistol, and not a sniper rifle at all.

Then you start flipping out and completely lost your mind when I translated VSS. As if you had absolutely no clue what VSS actually meant.
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The average range of a police sniper shot, typically is ln urban area, is 51 yards. This firearm is adequate for those types of engagements.

SWAT Snipers

For as long as most active SWAT operators have been police officers, there has been one gospel truth about SWAT sniper operations: the 70-Yard Rule. Ask any SWAT sniper what is the average range of a police sniper shooting, and he will answer, “About 70 yards.” Ask him the source of his data...
www.policemag.com www.policemag.com
 
Rucker61 said:
The average range of a police sniper shot, typically is ln urban area, is 51 yards. This firearm is adequate for those types of engagements.

SWAT Snipers

For as long as most active SWAT operators have been police officers, there has been one gospel truth about SWAT sniper operations: the 70-Yard Rule. Ask any SWAT sniper what is the average range of a police sniper shooting, and he will answer, “About 70 yards.” Ask him the source of his data...
www.policemag.com www.policemag.com
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The difference being that SWAT uses actual rifles. They don't use a weapon with a 7.9" barrel and call it a rifle. It also remains to be determined whether or not 51 yards is "adequate" for the VSS. They claim that it has an effective range of 400m, but can it actually hit anything? With such a short barrel, it is unlikely.
 
jmotivator said:
It is, but the effective range of the VSS is 300m.. so "urban sniper" maybe? But in the right conditions it's handy to be able to send lethal force 300m down range that the target can't hear.

I've seen pictures online of both Russian and Ukraine troops carrying the the AS Val, which is a close cousin to the VSS. The VSS has updated optical mounts and a wooden stock being the primary difference.
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300m is not the range of a sniper rifle. Even in close country or urban environment.
 
Glitch said:
The difference being that SWAT uses actual rifles. They don't use a weapon with a 7.9" barrel and call it a rifle. It also remains to be determined whether or not 51 yards is "adequate" for the VSS. They claim that it has an effective range of 400m, but can it actually hit anything? With such a short barrel, it is unlikely.
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Why do you think that barrel length has anything to do with accuracy?
 
Rich2018 said:
Because longer barrel length = more velocity

More velocity = higher accuracy (all other things being equal).
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All other things are usually not equal. Barrel length past a certain point does not lend more velocity. You really have little to no idea what you are talking about.
 
Rucker61 said:
Why do you think that barrel length has anything to do with accuracy?
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There is practically no difference in accuracy between an 18" barrel and a 28" barrel. However, when you are talking about a barrel that is under 8", now you are talking a serious accuracy challenge at range. Do you seriously believe you can hit a target at a range of 100m with any firearm that has an 8" barrel? Only if you were damn lucky.

The VSS is a sub-sonic pistol with a very large, and cheaply constructed, suppressor. Its accuracy is going to be similar to all other handguns with a short barrel length. It is not going to be anywhere as accurate as a rifle with a much longer barrel.

I certainly hope you are not going to try to tell me that a snub-nosed .50 cal. revolver with a 3" barrel has the same accuracy as a Barrett M107A1 with its 29" barrel. Barrel length matters.
 
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I enjoyed it in S.T.A.L.K.E.R
 
RF667799 said:
All other things are usually not equal. Barrel length past a certain point does not lend more velocity. You really have little to no idea what you are talking about.
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Barrel length under a certain point does effect accuracy. I'm not entirely certain where that point is, but generally speaking barrel lengths of under a foot are not going to be accurate at range. You are also talking about cutting the velocity of a round by at least half with such short barrel lengths. I can only get 1,350 fps with my 240 gr. .44 cal. loads using a 7.5" barrel because I load them just beyond red-line. Most rifles fire rounds greater than 2,500 fps.

The VSS should not be compared with other rifles, because it is not really a "long gun." It should be compared with other firearms with a similar barrel length, which are handguns.
 
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Glitch said:
There is practically no difference in accuracy between an 18" barrel and a 28" barrel. However, when you are talking about a barrel that is under 8", now you are talking a serious accuracy challenge at range. Do you seriously believe you can hit a target at a range of 100m with any firearm that has an 8" barrel? Only if you were damn lucky.
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Well, we'll find out next weekend. I'll put a scope on a 9" barrel .300 Blackout, suppressed, and shoot two different types subsonic ammo at 100 yards. What do you think the results will be?

Do you think that a 12.5" barrel on a 5.56mm AR is too short to be accurate at say, 500 yards?
Glitch said:
The VSS is a sub-sonic pistol with a very large, and cheaply constructed, suppressor. Its accuracy is going to be similar to all other handguns with a short barrel length. It is not going to be anywhere as accurate as a rifle with a much longer barrel.
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Compare apples to apples. Do F-Class shooters use 26"-28" barrels instead of a 20" barrel because the longer barrel is inherently more accurate?
Glitch said:
I certainly hope you are not going to try to tell me that a snub-nosed .50 cal. revolver with a 3" barrel has the same accuracy as a Barrett M107A1 with its 29" barrel. Barrel length matters.
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You've introduced multiple variables into that comparison. Not scientific at all. Would a 27" Barrett be as accurate as one with a 29" barrel?
 
Glitch said:
I would not describe a 9mm x 39mm round with a 250 gr. bullet as very effective. They claim it is a sniper weapon, but it has a maximum effective range of only 400m. Although, ballistically, it is very unusual to find a 9mm round with a 250 grain bullet weight. That bullet weight is more normal for a .44 cal. than a 9mm. Which would significantly improve its stopping power. However, the weight of the round is the reason why the round is sub-sonic and the reason why the maximum effective range is so short. To make the same round super-sonic would massively increase the recoil of the rifle, but also increase its effective range. It would also require a beefier chamber to handle the extra pressure. The biggest advantage that the VSS Vintorez has over other rifles is its built-in suppressor. Which is why it is so popular with special forces in Russia.

They also used the extremely cheap Wolf ammo in the video. (n)
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Which I suspect is why the recoil spring is smaller to ensure it cycles. Which did it seem to have a FTE a couple of times?
 
zsu2357 said:
Which I suspect is why the recoil spring is smaller to ensure it cycles. Which did it seem to have a FTE a couple of times?
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I would think that the additional backpressure from the suppressor would help in cycling. My .300 Blackout has a standard buffer with no issues.
 
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