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The VSS Vintorez

jmotivator

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I'm not sure if this is the forum to discuss guns technically, rather than just legally, but it seems the closest one to the subject.

Here's a video of a VSS that Brandon Herrera cobbled together from kits, with a more cusom silencer baffles.

As the video describes, the VSS is a rifle that uses heavy, subsonic ammunition and a built in silencer, to acheive true -- I'd say Hollywood-esque -- silencing. It's pretty interesting. The one weakness of this kind of solution is that while a heavy weight round will carry the same power as a lighter, faster round, the speed of the round will reduce the range considerably. In street fighting like we see in Ukraine, it would be deadly since there would be no audible cue or muzzle flash to pinpoint the sniper. Likewise a shooter in ambush and full cover would be able to get off a lot of shots before the ambushed soldiers had any clue what direction the shots were coming from.

A very specialized weapon, with a very limited use case, but is one of the best at what it does.

 

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I would not describe a 9mm x 39mm round with a 250 gr. bullet as very effective. They claim it is a sniper weapon, but it has a maximum effective range of only 400m. Although, ballistically, it is very unusual to find a 9mm round with a 250 grain bullet weight. That bullet weight is more normal for a .44 cal. than a 9mm. Which would significantly improve its stopping power. However, the weight of the round is the reason why the round is sub-sonic and the reason why the maximum effective range is so short. To make the same round super-sonic would massively increase the recoil of the rifle, but also increase its effective range. It would also require a beefier chamber to handle the extra pressure. The biggest advantage that the VSS Vintorez has over other rifles is its built-in suppressor. Which is why it is so popular with special forces in Russia.

They also used the extremely cheap Wolf ammo in the video. (n)
 

jmotivator

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I would not describe a 9mm x 39mm round with a 250 gr. bullet as very effective. They claim it is a sniper weapon, but it has a maximum effective range of only 400m. Although, ballistically, it is very unusual to find a 9mm round with a 250 grain bullet weight. That bullet weight is more normal for a .44 cal. than a 9mm. Which would significantly improve its stopping power. However, the weight of the round is the reason why the round is sub-sonic and the reason why the maximum effective range is so short. To make the same round super-sonic would massively increase the recoil of the rifle, but also increase its effective range. It would also require a beefier chamber to handle the extra pressure. The biggest advantage that the VSS Vintorez has over other rifles is its built-in suppressor. Which is why it is so popular with special forces in Russia.

They also used the extremely cheap Wolf ammo in the video. (n)

Well yes, it has a specific 9mm cartrige designed to be used with it. So do most specialized rifles.

Also, the weapon being subsonic is the point. You seem to want to argue that a hammer is a bad wrench...

I never said it was a sniper weapon, but if you can set up in the shadows of an apparment a few stories above the street and hit anything within 200m then it's effective in urban combat, especially given that the targets on the street will have no audible clue where the bullets are coming from.
 

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I'm not sure if this is the forum to discuss guns technically, rather than just legally, but it seems the closest one to the subject.

Here's a video of a VSS that Brandon Herrera cobbled together from kits, with a more cusom silencer baffles.

As the video describes, the VSS is a rifle that uses heavy, subsonic ammunition and a built in silencer, to acheive true -- I'd say Hollywood-esque -- silencing. It's pretty interesting. The one weakness of this kind of solution is that while a heavy weight round will carry the same power as a lighter, faster round, the speed of the round will reduce the range considerably. In street fighting like we see in Ukraine, it would be deadly since there would be no audible cue or muzzle flash to pinpoint the sniper. Likewise a shooter in ambush and full cover would be able to get off a lot of shots before the ambushed soldiers had any clue what direction the shots were coming from.

A very specialized weapon, with a very limited use case, but is one of the best at what it does.



And the gun porn contributes to the gun control debate in what way ?
 

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Well yes, it has a specific 9mm cartrige designed to be used with it. So do most specialized rifles.

Also, the weapon being subsonic is the point. You seem to want to argue that a hammer is a bad wrench...

I never said it was a sniper weapon, but if you can set up in the shadows of an apparment a few stories above the street and hit anything within 200m then it's effective in urban combat, especially given that the targets on the street will have no audible clue where the bullets are coming from.
I never said you called it a sniper weapon. I said "[t]hey claim it is a sniper weapon..." which is what the Russians specifically named the firearm: "Special Sniper Rifle." It is what VSS means in Russian.


The VSS Vintorez is a silenced sniper rifle of Soviet origin. It is a unique weapon that was conceived in the 1980's to silently engage personnel with body armor out to 400 m. The name VSS stands for "Vintovka Snayperskaya Spetsialnaya", which is Russian for "special sniper rifle".

You can do the same thing with any suppressed sub-sonic firearm. The biggest advantage VSS has, in my opinion, is the weight of the round. 250 gr. has a great deal of stopping power. Most 9mm rounds vary between 65 and 185 gr., with the average being around 115 gr. This round is more than twice the average.

They effectively took the 7.62mm x 39mm case, that I use for my SKS, and opened up the neck of the case to accommodate 9mm.

It's biggest disadvantage, in my opinion, is the extremely short barrel length. That is also one of the reasons why it is sub-sonic. A 200mm (7.9") barrel length is barely larger than my 7.5" (190.5mm) .44 Mag revolver.

With a muzzle velocity of 951.4436 fps (290 m/s) and a 250 gr. round, we're talking 503 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. By comparison, I use a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag with a 7.5" barrel that fires a 240 gr. round at 1,390 fps (423.672 m/s), which gives me 1,030 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Although, I will not be shooting targets at a range of 400m any time soon with my Ruger.
 

jmotivator

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I never said you called it a sniper weapon. I said "[t]hey claim it is a sniper weapon..." which is what the Russians specifically named the firearm: "Special Sniper Rifle." It is what VSS means in Russian.




You can do the same thing with any suppressed sub-sonic firearm. The biggest advantage VSS has, in my opinion, is the weight of the round. 250 gr. has a great deal of stopping power. Most 9mm rounds vary between 65 and 185 gr., with the average being around 115 gr. This round is more than twice the average.

They effectively took the 7.62mm x 39mm case, that I use for my SKS, and opened up the neck of the case to accommodate 9mm.

It's biggest disadvantage, in my opinion, is the extremely short barrel length. That is also one of the reasons why it is sub-sonic. A 200mm (7.9") barrel length is barely larger than my 7.5" (190.5mm) .44 Mag revolver.

With a muzzle velocity of 951.4436 fps (290 m/s) and a 250 gr. round, we're talking 503 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. By comparison, I use a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag with a 7.5" barrel that fires a 240 gr. round at 1,390 fps (423.672 m/s), which gives me 1,030 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Although, I will not be shooting targets at a range of 400m any time soon with my Ruger.

But, again, you are arguing points I never made.

Also, I'm not interested in arguing about any claims made of Weaponsystems.net, I'd rather argue the practicle application of the heavily suppressed, near silent VSS.

All of your points about barrel length and foot pounds of energy are meaningless to the point of the discussion. It would be like you bringing up the SKS in a thread and me trying to compare it to a Barrett 50 cal... it's literally apples and oranges.

Also, one more time, putting that bullet on target even at 300m with essentially no report is the whole point of the weapon. If you are in concealment in a field with the enemy 200m away, wouldn't you rather a VSS or an SKS? If you say SKS then I assume you also want to be found...

Also, you could use the VSS in any situtuation where a silenced pistol might make sense and it would fire more quietly than the real world supressed pistol.

I'm not going to argue with you that a VSS is a SKS... that isn't the point.
 

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But, again, you are arguing points I never made.

Also, I'm not interested in arguing about any claims made of Weaponsystems.net, I'd rather argue the practicle application of the heavily suppressed, near silent VSS.
What part of the Russian translation of VSS didn't you comprehend? Weaponsystem isn't making any claims, they are merely stating the Russian meaning of "Vintovka Snayperskaya Spetsialnaya." Get a clue. It is also not that heavily suppressed. It is rather cheaply suppressed, and anyone who could do much better. Didn't you watch your own video?

All of your points about barrel length and foot pounds of energy are meaningless to the point of the discussion. It would be like you bringing up the SKS in a thread and me trying to compare it to a Barrett 50 cal... it's literally apples and oranges.
Actually, they are quite relevant to anyone who understands firearms. Which you apparently don't. The ballistics determine the effectiveness of the weapon.

Also, one more time, putting that bullet on target even at 300m with essentially no report is the whole point of the weapon. If you are in concealment in a field with the enemy 200m away, wouldn't you rather a VSS or an SKS? If you say SKS then I assume you also want to be found...
I wouldn't use either firearm. You are more likely to hit the target with the SKS, but give away your position. You can remain concealed using the VSS, but at 200m you are most likely going to miss the target. My preference would be either a M1903 Springfield fitted with a Maxim Model 1910 Silencer, or an M1 Garand with an AAC 762-SD Silencer.

Also, you could use the VSS in any situtuation where a silenced pistol might make sense and it would fire more quietly than the real world supressed pistol.

I'm not going to argue with you that a VSS is a SKS... that isn't the point.
Yes, that would be a more practical use for the weapon. It is effectively a sub-sonic pistol with a rifle stock and a large cheap suppressor.

I only brought up the SKS because the VSS uses the same 39mm case. They just opened the neck of the case to accommodate 9mm instead of the standard 7.62mm. I was comparing the ammo, not the rifles. Learn to read.
 
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8EE4E830-DEDB-4B87-84A8-E59368BFB9CB.jpeg


The Malyul is one of the guns I saw this on the news In Ukraine and had to go look it up. That just seems like an awkward magazine change
 

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The Malyul is one of the guns I saw this on the news In Ukraine and had to go look it up. That just seems like an awkward magazine change
I have to agree. I do not care for any firearm with a pistol grip and trigger forward of the magazine, a.k.a. bullpup firearms.
 

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An awesome contributor to gun control.

Like going on the MADD forum and extolling to features of the new Ferrari.
 

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Gateman_Wen

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I'm not sure if this is the forum to discuss guns technically, rather than just legally, but it seems the closest one to the subject.

Here's a video of a VSS that Brandon Herrera cobbled together from kits, with a more cusom silencer baffles.

As the video describes, the VSS is a rifle that uses heavy, subsonic ammunition and a built in silencer, to acheive true -- I'd say Hollywood-esque -- silencing. It's pretty interesting. The one weakness of this kind of solution is that while a heavy weight round will carry the same power as a lighter, faster round, the speed of the round will reduce the range considerably. In street fighting like we see in Ukraine, it would be deadly since there would be no audible cue or muzzle flash to pinpoint the sniper. Likewise a shooter in ambush and full cover would be able to get off a lot of shots before the ambushed soldiers had any clue what direction the shots were coming from.

A very specialized weapon, with a very limited use case, but is one of the best at what it does.


It's a pistol barrel with an 18 inch silencer attached. Slow, heavy round with limited range, terrible projectile drop and most likely windage as well.

It's a toy, not a sniper rifle.
 

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It's a pistol barrel with an 18 inch silencer attached. Slow, heavy round with limited range, terrible projectile drop and most likely windage as well.

It's a toy, not a sniper rifle.
That was how I described it as well: "It is effectively a sub-sonic pistol with a rifle stock and a large cheap suppressor."

Although, with a 250 gr. 9mm projectile fired at 290 m/s it is a bit more than a toy. It is a very lethal "toy," at short range. Remove the stock and replace it with a pistol grip and it would make for a very effective, and quiet, close quarters firearm.
 

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It's a pistol barrel with an 18 inch silencer attached. Slow, heavy round with limited range, terrible projectile drop and most likely windage as well.

It's a toy, not a sniper rifle.

Why do you people keep arguing against things I never said?

It's like you folks have queue cards in a rolodex and can only handle the argument against the VSS that is on the card.
 

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Why do you people keep arguing against things I never said?

It's like you folks have queue cards in a rolodex and can only handle the argument against the VSS that is on the card.
Why are you under the delusion that anyone is arguing against you? Are you that paranoid? Or don't you think other people can have opinions that aren't yours?
 

jmotivator

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Why are you under the delusion that anyone is arguing against you? Are you that paranoid? Or don't you think other people can have opinions that aren't yours?

Well, I start a thread about the insane silencing capability of the VSS made it very effective for what it's designed to do.. Your first post was to tell you you would not call it very effective as a sniper rifle.

THat is both argumentative and a straw man.
 

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Well, I start a thread about the insane silencing capability of the VSS made it very effective for what it's designed to do.. Your first post was to tell you you would not call it very effective as a sniper rifle.

THat is both argumentative and a straw man.

A suppressor can and is very useful on a sniper rifle.
 

jmotivator

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A suppressor can and is very useful on a sniper rifle.

It is, but the effective range of the VSS is 300m.. so "urban sniper" maybe? But in the right conditions it's handy to be able to send lethal force 300m down range that the target can't hear.

I've seen pictures online of both Russian and Ukraine troops carrying the the AS Val, which is a close cousin to the VSS. The VSS has updated optical mounts and a wooden stock being the primary difference.
 

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The Malyul is one of the guns I saw this on the news In Ukraine and had to go look it up. That just seems like an awkward magazine change

I expect it's an adjustment for the troops, but the barrel is like 6" longer than it would be in a conventional format, while the weapon is overall shorter. Supposedly the weight distribution is better for lengthy use. At least on paper it's the better weapon.

I can't believe no one's mentioned the Vychlop yet. It's the 12.7mm version of the same thing. Claims are it's capable of "silently" penetrating armored vehicle doors from 400 meters.

There's also the the PSS silent pistol, which suppresses the noise in a completely unique way, using a piston inside the ammunition to strike the bullet while sealing the gases inside the casing.

Fascinating stuff.
 
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