The USG role in Afghanistan

[Antiwar]

MATTHEW HOH: And this — you know, Juan, this precedes the Soviet occupation. This really begins in 1973, the same year I was born. So, 48 years ago, the king is deposed. And at that point, if you’re an Afghan, there has not — there has been hardly a single day without some type of violence or political chaos. By the time the Soviet Union invades in 1979, 100,000 Afghans have already been killed in the fighting. And it’s important to remember, because we want to remember what the role of the United States has been in Afghanistan, that the United States starts funding the mujahideen, the Islamic militants in Afghanistan, at least six months before the Soviet Union invades. This was a plan by Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, to bait the Soviet Union into a trap in Afghanistan, to give them their own Vietnam.

And so, the effect on the Afghans has just been catastrophic. It has been well over 40 years of fighting. Millions of Afghans have been killed or wounded. The devastation on the Afghan people is hard to imagine. That two-and-a-half million refugees are what’s registered right now, but there have been millions and millions of refugees for the last 40 years. For most of these last 40 years, the Afghans have been the largest refugee population in the world, with the exception of a period of time when the Syrians were. But as the Syrians go back as that war has wound down, the Afghans, I believe, are once again the largest refugee population in the world.

It’s something like 70% of Afghans subsist on a dollar a day. There is no industry in Afghanistan to speak of. There is no infrastructure. The only industry you can speak about is the narcotics industry, which is heavily dominated by the Afghan government and the Afghan military. The Taliban have a role in it, but, for the most part, the chief players in the Afghan drug trade are the Afghan government or partners. The Afghan government itself is corrupt and predatory. The Taliban are hideous and horrendous, but the Afghan government is not much farther behind them in terms of human rights violations.

And, as well, too, this notion that somehow we have built democracy — you hear a lot about: “We can’t leave Afghanistan because of the gains we made, the progress we made.” And that’s all — it’s propaganda. The Afghan elections have been incredibly fraudulent since the United States invaded. They’ve only become more fraudulent with each one. So, this effect on the Afghan people has been incredibly disastrous. And the suffering that they have endured, and continue to endure, is — I think it’s something that we here in the United States cannot possibly imagine.

Afghanistan: Biden Vows to End Nation’s Longest War by 9/11 After Decades of Bloodshed & Destruction

The Biden administration has unveiled plans to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan by September 11, the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The War in Afghanistan has killed more than 100,000 Afghan civilians and over 2,300 U.S. servicemembers and has cost the U.S. trillions of dollars. The...

www.democracynow.org

 

[Rogue Valley]

If nothing else, the US occupation saved the lives of a lot of Afghani females.

 

[Tigerace117]

MATTHEW HOH: And this — you know, Juan, this precedes the Soviet occupation. This really begins in 1973, the same year I was born. So, 48 years ago, the king is deposed. And at that point, if you’re an Afghan, there has not — there has been hardly a single day without some type of violence or political chaos. By the time the Soviet Union invades in 1979, 100,000 Afghans have already been killed in the fighting. And it’s important to remember, because we want to remember what the role of the United States has been in Afghanistan, that the United States starts funding the mujahideen, the Islamic militants in Afghanistan, at least six months before the Soviet Union invades. This was a plan by Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, to bait the Soviet Union into a trap in Afghanistan, to give them their own Vietnam.

And so, the effect on the Afghans has just been catastrophic. It has been well over 40 years of fighting. Millions of Afghans have been killed or wounded. The devastation on the Afghan people is hard to imagine. That two-and-a-half million refugees are what’s registered right now, but there have been millions and millions of refugees for the last 40 years. For most of these last 40 years, the Afghans have been the largest refugee population in the world, with the exception of a period of time when the Syrians were. But as the Syrians go back as that war has wound down, the Afghans, I believe, are once again the largest refugee population in the world.

It’s something like 70% of Afghans subsist on a dollar a day. There is no industry in Afghanistan to speak of. There is no infrastructure. The only industry you can speak about is the narcotics industry, which is heavily dominated by the Afghan government and the Afghan military. The Taliban have a role in it, but, for the most part, the chief players in the Afghan drug trade are the Afghan government or partners. The Afghan government itself is corrupt and predatory. The Taliban are hideous and horrendous, but the Afghan government is not much farther behind them in terms of human rights violations.

And, as well, too, this notion that somehow we have built democracy — you hear a lot about: “We can’t leave Afghanistan because of the gains we made, the progress we made.” And that’s all — it’s propaganda. The Afghan elections have been incredibly fraudulent since the United States invaded. They’ve only become more fraudulent with each one. So, this effect on the Afghan people has been incredibly disastrous. And the suffering that they have endured, and continue to endure, is — I think it’s something that we here in the United States cannot possibly imagine.

Afghanistan: Biden Vows to End Nation’s Longest War by 9/11 After Decades of Bloodshed & Destruction

The Biden administration has unveiled plans to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan by September 11, the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The War in Afghanistan has killed more than 100,000 Afghan civilians and over 2,300 U.S. servicemembers and has cost the U.S. trillions of dollars. The...

www.democracynow.org

Oh, look, another load of blatant garbage from “democracy now”. I do love how they don’t provide the slightest shred of evidence for the claim that Afghan elections have “only gotten more fraudulent”.

Even funnier is the idea that US somehow “forced” the Soviets to invade Afghanistan.

 

[swing_voter]

Democracy Now hates America.


We were fighting the Cold War. Wherever the Soviets went, we went too.

If your source omits that context, it's propaganda.


.

 

[Antiwar]

Democracy Now hates America.


We were fighting the Cold War. Wherever the Soviets went, we went too.

If your source omits that context, it's propaganda.

Rephrasing: "If you're not for US militarism, then you hate America."

How long has the Soviet Union been gone? Yet US militarism hasn't slowed a bit. You're going to have to find a new excuse.


What was the root cause of worldwide problems?

"Decolonization

Cold War politics were radically affected by decolonization in Africa, Asia, and to a limited extent, Latin America as well. The economic needs of emerging Third World states made them vulnerable to foreign influence and pressure.[1] The era was characterized by a proliferation of anti-colonial national liberation movements, backed predominantly by the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China.[2] The Soviet leadership took a keen interest in the affairs of the fledgling ex-colonies because it hoped the cultivation of socialist clients there would deny their economic and strategic resources to the West.[1] Eager to build its own global constituency, the People's Republic of China attempted to assume a leadership role among the decolonizing territories as well, appealing to its image as a non-white, non-European agrarian nation which too had suffered from the depredations of Western imperialism.[3] Both nations promoted global decolonization as an opportunity to redress the balance of the world against Western Europe and the United States, and claimed that the political and economic problems of colonized peoples made them naturally inclined towards socialism.[3]"

 

[Questerr]

Rephrasing: "If you're not for US militarism, then you hate America."

How long has the Soviet Union been gone? Yet US militarism hasn't slowed a bit. You're going to have to find a new excuse.


What was the root cause of worldwide problems?

"Decolonization

Cold War politics were radically affected by decolonization in Africa, Asia, and to a limited extent, Latin America as well. The economic needs of emerging Third World states made them vulnerable to foreign influence and pressure.[1] The era was characterized by a proliferation of anti-colonial national liberation movements, backed predominantly by the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China.[2] The Soviet leadership took a keen interest in the affairs of the fledgling ex-colonies because it hoped the cultivation of socialist clients there would deny their economic and strategic resources to the West.[1] Eager to build its own global constituency, the People's Republic of China attempted to assume a leadership role among the decolonizing territories as well, appealing to its image as a non-white, non-European agrarian nation which too had suffered from the depredations of Western imperialism.[3] Both nations promoted global decolonization as an opportunity to redress the balance of the world against Western Europe and the United States, and claimed that the political and economic problems of colonized peoples made them naturally inclined towards socialism.[3]"

After 9/11, what should the US government have done?

 

[Antiwar]

After 9/11, what should the US government have done?

There is no easy answer for that.

 

[Questerr]

There is no easy answer for that.

Okay, give a hard answer.

 

[Antiwar]

Okay, give a hard answer.

Your expectation for anyone to have an answer is not reasonable.

Do you deny that Western colonization was/is a root cause?

I was too late to edit "What was the root cause of worldwide problems?" to "What was/is a root cause of worldwide problems?"

 

[Tigerace117]

Your expectation for anyone to have an answer is not reasonable.

Do you deny that Western colonization was/is a root cause? I was too late to edit that part of #5.

Uh....Afghanistan was never colonized, so claiming “Western colonization” to be a root cause is moronic.

 

[Questerr]

Your expectation for anyone to have an answer is not reasonable.

Do you deny that Western colonization was/is a root cause? I was too late to edit that part of #5.

What Western country colonized Afghanistan?

 

[Antiwar]

What Western country colonized Afghanistan?

I didn't say that a Western country colonized Afghanistan.

 

[Questerr]

I didn't say that a Western country colonized Afghanistan.

Then how is Western colonialism the root cause?

 

[Antiwar]

Then how is Western colonialism the root cause?

The West has been trying to and has dominated as much of the world as it could. That's much of what the world has been fighting about, for a very long time.

 

[Questerr]

The West has been trying to and has dominated as much of the world as it could. That's much of what the world has been fighting about, for a very long time.

Yet the West never dominated Afghanistan. So how is Western colonialism responsible for the situation there?

 

[Antiwar]

Yet the West never dominated Afghanistan. So how is Western colonialism responsible for the situation there?

The West never dominated Afghanistan?

 

[Questerr]

The West never dominated Afghanistan?

No. It wasn’t never colonized. The British failed twice at extending their influence to the country.

 

[Tigerace117]

No. It wasn’t never colonized. The British failed twice at extending their influence to the country.

You are expecting Antiwar to know basic history? Don’t you know that’s “reactionary”?

 

[Antiwar]

No. It wasn’t never colonized. The British failed twice at extending their influence to the country.

Does that mean that the West hasn't tried to dominate Afghanistan? How about the US having a very heavy hand in essentially destroying Afghanistan for the past nearly 20 years? And even though Biden is talking about pulling troops out, the USG is still going to have plenty of forces in and/or near Afghanistan.

 

[Questerr]

Does that mean that the West hasn't tried to dominate Afghanistan? How about the US having a very heavy hand in essentially destroying Afghanistan for the past nearly 20 years? And even though Biden is talking about pulling troops out, the USG is still going to have plenty of forces in and/or near Afghanistan.

Tried and failed TWICE. After the British failed IN THE 19TH CENTURY, there was no serious external involvement in Afghanistan until the Soviets backed the communist coup in the 70’s.

Why did the US go into Afghanistan 20 years ago? Was there an event that precipitated that?

 

[Antiwar]

Tried and failed TWICE. After the British failed IN THE 19TH CENTURY, there was no serious external involvement in Afghanistan until the Soviets backed the communist coup in the 70’s.

Why did the US go into Afghanistan 20 years ago? Was there an event that precipitated that?

So the answer is yes, the West did try to dominate Afghanistan. And yes, the USG has essentially destroyed Afghanistan in the past 20 years.

And as the political pundit said, which I highlighted in #1:
... this precedes the Soviet occupation. This really begins in 1973
... to bait the Soviet Union into a trap in Afghanistan, to give them their own Vietnam.

So the USG has been in Afghanistan for its second, longer Vietnam, it seems.

 

[Questerr]

So the answer is yes, the West did try to dominate Afghanistan. And yes, the USG has essentially destroyed Afghanistan in the past 20 years.

And as the political pundit said, which I highlighted in #1:
to bait the Soviet Union into a trap in Afghanistan, to give them their own Vietnam.

So the USG has been in Afghanistan for it's second, longer Vietnam.

Shall I post pics of cities like Kabul and Kandahar with comparisons of 2001 and 2021? Shall we see what this “essentially destroyed” Afghanistan looks like?

The US did not “bait the Soviets into a trap” in Afghanistan. The US had no idea the Soviets were going to invade Afghanistan until Operation Shtorm-333 was already complete. It was a major intelligence failure at the time.

 

[Tigerace117]

So the answer is yes, the West did try to dominate Afghanistan. And yes, the USG has essentially destroyed Afghanistan in the past 20 years.

And as the political pundit said, which I highlighted in #1:
to bait the Soviet Union into a trap in Afghanistan, to give them their own Vietnam.

So the USG has been in Afghanistan for it's second, longer Vietnam.

The answer is that Afghanistan was never colonized, and therefore your claims about “western colonialism” are laughable.

I get that in Antiwar world it’s “reactionary” for women to have rights, but in the real world wailing about the US “destroying” Afghanistan by deposing the Taliban is pathetic.

 

[Questerr]

Antiwar claiming Afghanistan is “essentially destroyed” is like Trumpists claiming BLM “burned down” cities.

 

[Antiwar]

Shall I post pics of cities like Kabul and Kandahar with comparisons of 2001 and 2021? Shall we see what this “essentially destroyed” Afghanistan looks like?

The US did not “bait the Soviets into a trap” in Afghanistan. The US had no idea the Soviets were going to invade Afghanistan until Operation Shtorm-333 was already complete. It was a major intelligence failure at the time.

Has the US and US corporations already imposed their neoliberal economics?