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The US Must Prepare for War Against Russia Over Ukraine

Rogue Valley said:
The Budapest Memorandum was not binding on any signatory (Ukraine, Russia, United States, Great Britain).

Ukraine should have kept the nukes. Be that as it may, she should develope her own nuclear warheads. The knowledge and capability are certainly available in-house.
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What was the point in amputating a shred of the two line post and presenting it as if it was the whole?
 
LouC said:
Unfortunately or fortunately, as the case might be, American Presidents have a long history of abandoning the Nation's "honor" to keep its promises.

My GOD, why would anyone think in reality risking America being nuked by Russia is worth it to "honor" some inane promise to the Ukrainians who we can observe aren't even keeping their promises to behave right by their own people is a must do?

I truly understand your point of view, I used to be like that many years ago, but I grew ever more conscious along the way of just how insane it can be to try to engage in Nation protecting.

Look at all the promises America made to the South Vietnamese. We wasted untold amounts of money and totally wasted horrific numbers of American lives and millions of North and South Vietnamese lives on all sorts of unhonored promises and then we just walked away.

Why put millions and millions at risk globally of annihilation in some inane "promised honor" to the Ukraine?

Let Europe figure it out.
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I am not a globalist as the folks who made the agreement were.

However, the agreement was made.

Putin didn't do anything along this line of action when Trump was in office. Putin bitch slapped Obama and now he's doing it with Biden.

An object at rest tends to remain at rest. An object in motion tends to remain in motion.

This ball is rolling and is rolling because Biden is viewed as a feckless puppet afraid of his own shadow.
 
code1211 said:
Putin didn't do anything along this line of action when Trump was in office. Putin bitch slapped Obama and now he's doing it with Biden.

This ball is rolling and is rolling because Biden is viewed as a feckless puppet afraid of his own shadow.
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Biden is showing strength. He has been unambiguous in his vocal support of Ukraine's sovereignty, as was Obama.

The ball is rolling because Putin knows he has the support of Republicans who just want to see Biden fail. It's the Republicans who are showing ambivalence toward Ukraine's sovereignty.
 
Rogue Valley said:
www.defenseone.com

The US Must Prepare for War Against Russia Over Ukraine

If Putin is not deterred from seizing another chunk of sovereign territory, he won’t stop there.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com

iu




One month ago I stated here that Putin was bluffing and a new Russian invasion of Ukraine was unlikely. The costs to Russia would simply be too high. But today I agree with Ms. Farkas: war is coming. This became quite apparant when Putin deliverd a bevy of demands to the US and to NATO. Demands so pernicious he knew they would be rejected outright. But that was the point. Putin's outrageous demands were intended to create a phony casus-belli for war. Because of Putin's Soviet/KGB background, he is obsessed with Ukraine. He will accept nothing less than a Russian occupation of Ukraine west to the Dneiper River including Kyiv and Odesa. The "Novorossiya" territory from the time of Czarina Catherine the Great. The Russian military practiced invading Ukraine in July 2021. It is no accident that the Kremlin has all of the invasion pieces in place here in January 2022. Last week some Russian tank brigade's near the border held "readiness" drills. What they were really up to was trying to determine if the ground was still frozen and solid enough for Russian armor. They cannot wait for "Rasputitsa", which is the season of mud when the ground thaws sometime in February. However, this has been a wet and mild winter in Ukraine. If and when the Russian military moves their SNAR-10M1 radar systems forward, invasion is imminent. The Russian military has the ability to occupy a good portion of Ukraine. But the partisan warfare that follows will bleed the Russian military far worse than their horrible experience in Afghanistan.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Russia Launches Military Drills Near Ukraine as Invasion Fears Remain High - The Moscow Times

The Russian military announced live fire exercises near Ukraine on Tuesday as fears of an invasion of its western neighbor remained high amid ongoing diplomatic efforts to calm tensions.
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com
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Disagree.

Ukraine & Russia not my business, not the USAs business.

Nobody starts more phony "wars" than the USA, let us get our own house in order before worrying about the stuff halfway around the world.
 
code1211 said:
But, what the heck, that was a while ago. They should have known that a promise from the USA was worth less than the BS that was smeared on the paper.
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Like the Iran agreement. Yeah.
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
Disagree.

Ukraine & Russia not my business, not the USAs business.

Nobody starts more phony "wars" than the USA, let us get our own house in order before worrying about the stuff halfway around the world.
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It's your business whether you realize it or not. Allowing Russia to invade a sovereign nation without consequence would diminish confidence in the global community's (namely, the US alliance) ability to stand up to an aggressor. Don't think China wouldn't take this into consideration with respect to their ongoing spat with Taiwan.

We wouldn't be starting a phony war; we'd be making sure that aggression doesn't go unchecked.
 
multivita-man said:
The ball is rolling because Putin knows he has the support of Republicans who just want to see Biden fail. It's the Republicans who are showing ambivalence toward Ukraine's sovereignty.
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RIght. It was the GOP who 86ed the Russian sanctions this week. Oh wait..that was the Democrats.
 
Roadvirus said:
RIght. It was the GOP who 86ed the Russian sanctions this week. Oh wait..that was the Democrats.
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We can't stop Russia and Europe from finishing the pipeline. They're going to finish it whether we like it or not, whether we sanction them or not. Sanctions would just put us at odds with European/NATO allies.

Any other ideas?
 
Who's kids are we sending this time to fight?
 
OrphanSlug said:
Who's kids are we sending this time to fight?
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Mostly Americans with a couple of Brits. Just the way the world likes it so they don't have to do anything themselves.
 
We bankrupted the Soviets...we can bankrupt the Russian Republic.
 
LouC said:
We never should have entered into that agreement. Long past time for the world to learn we will not be their Policeman.
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It made sense at the time. The west had to decide whether they wanted only one nuclear armed state from the defunct Soviet Union or a multiplicity of nuclear armed states. In the later case at least four nuclear armed states: Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus would have emerged from the Soviet Union. They opted for Russia retaining all the nukes.
 
multivita-man said:
It's your business whether you realize it or not. Allowing Russia to invade a sovereign nation without consequence would diminish confidence in the global community's (namely, the US alliance) ability to stand up to an aggressor.
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LMAO. Thats hilarious. "Invading a sovereign nation" like Iraq you mean?

I dont gave a crap about Russia or the Ukraine.
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
LMAO. Thats hilarious. "Invading a sovereign nation" like Iraq you mean?
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Sure, that's also your business -- your tax dollars wasted, American prestige wasted. But we're not talking about another invasion; we're talking about whether to allow Russia to invade a sovereign country without consequence and potentially destabilize an economically and politically important region.

PeacefulWarrior said:
I dont gave a crap about Russia or the Ukraine.
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You don't -- not now. You might later.
 
multivita-man said:
Biden is showing strength. He has been unambiguous in his vocal support of Ukraine's sovereignty, as was Obama.

The ball is rolling because Putin knows he has the support of Republicans who just want to see Biden fail. It's the Republicans who are showing ambivalence toward Ukraine's sovereignty.
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Why did you amputate a part of the thought and post it as if it was the whole thought?
 
multivita-man said:
Sure, that's also your business -- your tax dollars wasted, American prestige wasted. But we're not talking about another invasion; we're talking about whether to allow Russia to invade a sovereign country
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I dont give a crap about Russia. or the Ukraine. Not my business, I dont live there. The US is the worst offender of them all when it comes to invading stuff. PFFFFFFFT. I dont give a crap.

multivita-man said:
You don't -- not now. You might later.
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No. I'm pretty positive that I won't. I wish Americans could just stop with the worrying about what the entire world is doing, and realize their own nation has comes a shithole and start worrying about THAT.
I support using diplomatic and economic means against Russia, nothing more than that and not one troop.
 
code1211 said:
Why did you amputate a part of the thought and then respond as if it was the whole thought?
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I can't speak for others, but when I do this it is because I am responding to that one specific thought, and quoting only that one specific thought helps to convey what I am responding to or objecting to.

If I objected to 5% of a paragraph and agreed with the other 95%, and I addressed my objections at the entire paragraph, it would appear as if I were objecting to the entire paragraph.


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PeacefulWarrior said:
I support using diplomatic and economic means against Russia, nothing more than that and not one troop.
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What about our NATO allies that we are treaty obligated to defend?

If Russia were to invade Canada and the UK would you still say we should not have any response beyond diplomacy and sanctions?
 
Roadvirus said:
Show me where we are jailing or poisoning "opposition" leaders and arresting journalists en masse.
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How about murdering a million Iraqis and palling around with terrorists like the Crown Prince of Saudi as he murders journalists?
 
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