The Ukrainian Crisis 2014.....

[MMC]

What do you think is going on here? Too many conflicting stories!

Whats conflicting Lady P? Russia has taken control of the Crimea. Putin has 150k troops armed and ready. 90 Planes in the Sky or that can be scrambled. Which don't count any helicopters.

The Ukrainians are mustering up saying Putin has declared War. Yet they aren't declaring War on Putin. So far Putin isn't moving troops to take the Ukraine.

Now should they declare War officially. Do you think Putin's 150k troops is more than enough to start with? I think it was more than what we Started our conflict with Afghanistan.

Also.....I think most of whats in here. Can cut thru a lot of chase.

 

[polgara]

Whats conflicting Lady P? Russia has taken control of the Crimea. Putin has 150k troops armed and ready. 90 Planes in the Sky or that can be scrambled. Which don't count any helicopters.

The Ukrainians are mustering up saying Putin has declared War. Yet they aren't declaring War on Putin. So far Putin isn't moving troops to take the Ukraine.

Now should they declare War officially. Do you think Putin's 150k troops is more than enough to start with? I think it was more than what we Started our conflict with Afghanistan.

Also.....I think most of whats in here. Can cut thru a lot of chase.

:agree: The news I'm hearing sounds more like speculation about what the situation is. Is it that it was so unexpected that the media is still trying to figure out what's going on over there, and why?

Hint: Putin wanted the Crimea...he has the Crimea. The majority of the Crimeans are Russian. So what happens next? I've posted my thoughts on this situation earlier. :shock:

 

[Wiggen]

Try again.....this time remember there is no difference between Neo Libs and Neo Cons. Save one.....Who's in Charge.

Actually there's a huge difference between Neo cons and Neo Libs. Neo libs don't want to go to war with anybody. Neo cons want to go to war with everybody.

 

[SayMyName]

CIA should have read Pravda in 2011.
I'm sure this was a message from Russians. (ofc not for WW3, but it was a message for smth).
Third World War to begin during Winter Games in 2014 - English pravda.ru

Considering how far back that was written, the predictions for this war are much closer to the reality than many I have read in just a simple daily newspaper forecast for your favorite sun sign. Maybe the CIA needs to start hiring Russian astrologers to help with assessments in the future. *wink*

 

[MMC]

:agree: The news I'm hearing sounds more like speculation about what the situation is. Is it that it was so unexpected that the media is still trying to figure out what's going on over there, and why?

Hint: Putin wanted the Crimea...he has the Crimea. The majority of the Crimeans are Russian. So what happens next? I've posted my thoughts on this situation earlier. :shock:

Well, we know it will be part of Russia no matter what way it goes forward. Now its what we do to walk back from Threats and Demands.

 

[MMC]

Actually there's a huge difference between Neo cons and Neo Libs. Neo libs don't want to go to war with anybody. Neo cons want to go to war with everybody.

I would disagree.....Neo Libs would go to war with Neo Cons. But then they would also create wars with unseen enemies that can never be defeated. Like a War on Poverty as an example. Nothing exceeds like excess to.....huh?

 

[Higgins86]

Well, we know it will be part of Russia no matter what way it goes forward. Now its what we do to walk back from Threats and Demands.

Ukraine could yet force our hand if they engage Russian troops. Just takes one twitchy trigger finger and this whole thing could blow open.

 

[MMC]

Ukraine could yet force our hand if they engage Russian troops. Just takes one twitchy trigger finger and this whole thing could blow open.

Well, they are saying What Russia is doing is an act of War and asking the US and EU to commit to their territorial integrity. But like I said.....if they were wanted to do something. Than declare war on Russia. As I don't think they can gain the element of surprise at anytime. It wont work by just attacking them now. As then Putin can Unleash.

I was just wondering How many ships he has there......since he has neutralized one Ukrainian Missile base.

Do you think that is like already a hole in their net?

 

[Higgins86]

Well, they are saying What Russia is doing is an act of War and asking the US and EU to commit to their territorial integrity. But like I said.....if they were wanted to do something. Than declare war on Russia. As I don't think they can gain the element of surprise at anytime. It wont work by just attacking them now. As then Putin can Unleash.

I was just wondering How many ships he has there......since he has neutralized one Ukrainian Missile base.

Do you think that is like already a hole in their net?

from the sounds of it they have complete operational control from air, land and Sea but as I said before one miscommunication from both sides and this could get bloody. I struggle to see Nato standing by and allowing Russia and Ukraine to trade blows without intervening. Will be interesting to see if the US plans to go through with their Black Sea Naval drills which are coming up fast! The drill is a great excuse for Obama to get some American hardware in the region without provoking the Russians too much as it was planned months before this all started.

 

[joG]

Ukraine could yet force our hand if they engage Russian troops. Just takes one twitchy trigger finger and this whole thing could blow open.

I don't know, but it seems improbable that it is time for the end of time just yet. This is between the Russians and Europeans with the Americans in the background. The Europeans aren't going to go up to the pitch for Ukraine and the Americans are not going to act like idiots in spite of Obama's and Kerry's bluster. The EU played a lousy game and lost. Everyone knows that. The rest is ritual, smoke, mirrors and hot air, I should expect.

 

[MMC]

from the sounds of it they have complete operational control from air, land and Sea but as I said before one miscommunication from both sides and this could get bloody. I struggle to see Nato standing by and allowing Russia and Ukraine to trade blows without intervening. Will be interesting to see if the US plans to go through with their Black Sea Naval drills which are coming up fast! The drill is a great excuse for Obama to get some American hardware in the region without provoking the Russians too much as it was planned months before this all started.

You don't think Putin will allow any Exercises to take place now, do you? He will keep the Pressure on. Moreover if it does jump off. Who can get there in time. The Ukrainians have some 4th generation Tech. Putin has 4th & 5th Generation and already has the Opening. Plus The Tactical Advantage.

Moreover.....its on his Border and he can open up another can of Worms.

 

[Higgins86]

You don't think Putin will allow any Exercises to take place now, do you? He will keep the Pressure on. Moreover if it does jump off. Who can get there in time. The Ukrainians have some 4th generation Tech. Putin has 4th & 5th Generation and already has the Opening. Plus The Tactical Advantage.

Moreover.....its on his Border and he can open up another can of Worms.

Time for Obama to take a stance then isn't it. If I'm him I carry on with the drills just to send a message to Putin, we all know that Putin would never directly attack America and maybe the presence of the US Navy in the region could help ease tensions.

 

[joG]

from the sounds of it they have complete operational control from air, land and Sea but as I said before one miscommunication from both sides and this could get bloody. I struggle to see Nato standing by and allowing Russia and Ukraine to trade blows without intervening. Will be interesting to see if the US plans to go through with their Black Sea Naval drills which are coming up fast! The drill is a great excuse for Obama to get some American hardware in the region without provoking the Russians too much as it was planned months before this all started.

But why should the US want to move in.? Had Ukraine joined Nato, sure. But they aren't in and the Europeans have hung them out to dry.

 

[MMC]

Time for Obama to take a stance then isn't it. If I'm him I carry on with the drills just to send a message to Putin, we all know that Putin would never directly attack America and maybe the presence of the US Navy in the region could help ease tensions.

Yeah and just as we know we wont attack Putin.....which you don't think he has already looked into Obamas eyes and knows how far he can push it? Knows we wont attack him as well? He may even let the exercises go ahead and not even swet it.

 

[Higgins86]

But why should the US want to move in.? Had Ukraine joined Nato, sure. But they aren't in and the Europeans have hung them out to dry.

This effects America global position and potentially their influence in the region. They signed the treaty and directed the NATO Ukraine agreement so for Russia to disregard this shows a complete lack of respect for not just Nato and the EU but also the US. Potentially down the line it could come back to haunt the US when they are trying to negotiate with countries like N.Korea and Iran about nuclear weapons, the US got Ukraine to disarm under the assurance that their sovereignty was secure. Do you think Russia would of simply walked into the Ukraine if they were still armed with nukes?

 

[Higgins86]

Yeah and just as we know we wont attack Putin.....which you don't think he has already looked into Obamas eyes and knows how far he can push it? Knows we wont attack him as well? He may even let the exercises go ahead and not even swet it.

Can't say about domestic policy but I do think Obama Foreign Policy has been an utter disaster for his term as president.

 

[Graffias]

Totally surreal, Bernard Henri Levy threatening Putin in Kiev while standing in front of an icon of the Virgin Mary and talking to a crowd waving the flag of the old Ukrainian Insurgent Army.



In French and Ukrainian.

He says "no passaran!", the communist, Republican slogan from the Spanish Civil War. This is getting confusing!

 

[MMC]

Can't say about domestic policy but I do think Obama Foreign Policy has been an utter disaster for his term as president.

I agree with you there.....and winging it, isn't measurin' up. Which is why I said he at least needs to have some people who he can listen to that has some actually experience in such matters. Both Rice and Powers are and were incompetent. Plus they were the bench players. So time to trade out ASAP.

 

[Higgins86]

I agree with you there.....and winging it, isn't measurin' up. Which is why I said he at least needs to have some people who he can listen to that has some actually experience in such matters. Both Rice and Powers are and were incompetent. Plus they were the bench players. So time to trade out ASAP.

Do you think it would be better for the US if they took away some of the POTUS foreign policy powers?

 

[washunut]

I love you guys who root for the U.S. to fail so that you can have something else to blame Obama for. You're like the wing nuts in the House Republican Caucus who were willing to let the U.S. default on its debt so that they could 'punish' Obama. It really is a sickness.

Are you really this stupid is real life or just hiding behind a computer. Where do you get I am rooting for American failure. This is not something between the U.S. and Russia, but between Russia and Ukraine.

What this has to do with America defaulting can only be something that you conjure up for who knows what reason.

Get a life!

 

[washunut]

So what do you think about Johnny Quest McCain is saying here? Put missiles in East Europe. Putin just took a Ukrainian Missile Base. Wonder how McCain thinks this can be done now or at any time in the near future. See Johny already forgot about 150k troops all geared up and ready to go.


What gets me is how.....did the CIA and State Dept just go by the fact that Putin hadn't moved any Medical Units with his alleged drills and say this wasn't an invasion or intervention.

I think McCain needs to retire.

 

[MMC]

Do you think it would be better for the US if they took away some of the POTUS foreign policy powers?

There may be some. I would have to look at them all. Still personnel is different. I think we need to trade out those two and any Ambassadors Obama has dealing with China and the Saud and Sunni. Kerry and Hagel too.

 

[joG]

This effects America global position and potentially their influence in the region. They signed the treaty and directed the NATO Ukraine agreement so for Russia to disregard this shows a complete lack of respect for not just Nato and the EU but also the US. Potentially down the line it could come back to haunt the US when they are trying to negotiate with countries like N.Korea and Iran about nuclear weapons, the US got Ukraine to disarm under the assurance that their sovereignty was secure. Do you think Russia would of simply walked into the Ukraine if they were still armed with nukes?

Oh sure it will haunt the US. Had the US hit Russia in Georgia or knocked out Assad, the situation now would be different. That is haunting us now. But the America can't fight everyone's wars alone and when the allies are incompetent like now the Europeans? Well, it is costly for all.

But I am not sure that I know of an obligation to protect Ukrainian unity that you seem to be referring to. Could you explain that one again?

 

[Coin]

Are you really this stupid is real life or just hiding behind a computer. Where do you get I am rooting for American failure. This is not something between the U.S. and Russia, but between Russia and Ukraine.

What this has to do with America defaulting can only be something that you conjure up for who knows what reason.

Get a life!

Indeed.
No one here I think want to point the US as a failure, no even us non-US.
It's just that some action of US politicians and some time actions of the last president are bringing down the principles and morale that US used to have.
As for EU, the principles and morale has gone long time ago. Now each country is taking care of their own business & problems, and none of them care so much for the others or the world.

 

[MMC]

I think McCain needs to retire.

That works for me.....it's not like Johnny Quest knew much about Strategy and tactics anyways. At least not military ones.