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The U.S. boycott remains strong. Why many Canadians are digging in their heels

NatMorton said:
Trust is one thing. Getting the best financial deal is another. The next President who breaks from Trump (and that could easily be the next President) will announce "A New Day" or some such platitude, and all will be well again with Canada. Feel free to book this post. It will happen.
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Maybe, maybe not. It would be stupid for Canada to trust the US again completely. What's to stop the next GOP President from bringing back the tariffs? Frankly, Canada doesn't want to lock into a deal with Trump that would keep tariffs on most of our goods, because we are not sure a Democratic President would be willing to reverse those tariffs. Yes, there are logistical reasons why Canada and the US had such a robust trading relationship, but it takes more than a few dollars to mend broken trust. I think most countries would want a guarantee that the US won't do this again in 10 years.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Provided the next us government changes its behaviour and trade practices.
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If this next one doesn't, the one after that almost certainly will. Having artificial trade barriers between our two countries is idiotic. Sooner or later, cooler heads will prevail (though I grant you, cooler heads first need to emerge.)
 
Jason Warfield said:
I believe that’s statement to be true.

When it is in their best interest to do so and not before.

I’ve read your initial responses in this thread (haven’t read all 10 pages) and I feel what you are missing here is that American products are a choice and not a necessity for Canada. And for many other nations. Either that, or they are willing to undergo trade agreements with others over us.

We are a choice for most nations. They can survive without us. And it is in their best interest to do so…particularly in economic terms.
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Even ceding the point US products are a choice, we have a competitive advantage selling to Canada under normal (i.e., non-Trumpian) circumstances. That we're right next door is a huge logistical advantage. And while Canadians may universally hate Trump, I don't think customers in Fort Erie hate business owners and Buffalo. I don't think shopkeepers in Edmundston hate folks in Madawaska. Those economic (and even cultural) ties will outlast Trump.
 
ElChupacabra said:
I am no fan of Reagan, but he was an entirely different class of politician, and was able to clearly communicate his vision and policy ideas.
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Reagan was known as the Great Communicator
ElChupacabra said:
To put Trump in the same class is a disservice to Reagan, in that the latter did not seek to reshape government in any way resembling what Trump has done.
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TDS prevents you from objectively considering the areas where they are similar.
 
NatMorton said:
If this next one doesn't, the one after that almost certainly will. Having artificial trade barriers between our two countries is idiotic. Sooner or later, cooler heads will prevail (though I grant you, cooler heads first need to emerge.)
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Remember that trade is between companies and their customers. Neither likes an unreliable supply chain and won't risk doing business with a country that has shown itself to be very unreliable.

The US could behave this way only if they had a monopoly on world trade. They don't.
 
NatMorton said:
If this next one doesn't, the one after that almost certainly will. Having artificial trade barriers between our two countries is idiotic. Sooner or later, cooler heads will prevail (though I grant you, cooler heads first need to emerge.)
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That would be ideal, but I think it depends on how much Trump changes the US culture regarding trade. Heck I expect Vance to follow Trump policies for the most part, which could mean 12 years of Trump style trade policies

Trump tariffs are quite possibly going to cause Japan and South Korea to go more independent on geopolitics. Canada is going to divert trade to other countries, and likely not go back due to risk ( us unreliability).

Trade between the US and Canada is by no means unfair.

The US subsidies its dairy massively, Canada restricts supply to keep price stability.


Canada has a surplus in trade of goods, but a deficit or used to in services. Canadians used to spend big on travel to the US. Far more than Americans travel to Canada. For both goods can be sourced from other countries far cheaper than they can be produced in Canada or the US, which makes US products rather uncompetitive in Canada. Nothing fair or unfair about that
 
NatMorton said:
Agree completely. That is yet another reason why economic relations will return to something like normal once Trump and his nutty tariffs are removed.

We just can't quit you. ;)
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Why would they return to normal? Allan Inc lost all its US suppliers and customers due to the trade war.

Fortunately other suppliers were found in Asia that were less expensive and more reliable and new customers were found in Europe.

Why would Allan Inc ever risk a US supplier again?
 
MAGAnificent said:
Reagan was known as the Great Communicator
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He was referred to that way, yes. Trump is the Massive Bombasticator.

MAGAnificent said:
TDS prevents you from objectively considering the areas where they are similar.
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Not at all. I mean, they share a slogan and the sentiment that slogan implies, but that's where the similarities end. Reagan had diplomatic skill, Trump does not. Reagan was willing to work with Democrats, Trump does not. They're both white men, so there's that, but one over does it with bronzer while the other did not.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Maybe, maybe not. It would be stupid for Canada to trust the US again completely. What's to stop the next GOP President from bringing back the tariffs? Frankly, Canada doesn't want to lock into a deal with Trump that would keep tariffs on most of our goods, because we are not sure a Democratic President would be willing to reverse those tariffs. Yes, there are logistical reasons why Canada and the US had such a robust trading relationship, but it takes more than a few dollars to mend broken trust. I think most countries would want a guarantee that the US won't do this again in 10 years.
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This will sound odd, but I'm not sure trust really enters into it.

Hypothetical: Vance wins in 2028, and as a means for proving he's his own man, he offers an olive branch to Canada that would return economic trade conditions to what they were before Trump. Do you really think your government will act like a jilted lover and say "No way. You hurt us. We don't trust you."

I don't think so. Canada is better with the US as a close economic ally, and the reverse is also true.
 
Allan said:
Why would they return to normal? Allan Inc lost all its US suppliers and customers due to the trade war.

Fortunately other suppliers were found in Asia that were less expensive and more reliable and new customers were found in Europe.

Why would Allan Inc ever risk a US supplier again?
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I'm not saying everything goes back to normal everywhere. Of course there will be cases like those you describe. My larger point stands, however. See post 366.
 
MAGAnificent said:
I am for those subsidies going away as well.
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Given the mass US government subsidies on dairy if Canada opened up its market to US dairy the Canadian farmers would be crushed all due to US government subsidies. Only once those go away should Canada consider doing away with its current dairy policies
 
NatMorton said:
This will sound odd, but I'm not sure trust really enters into it.

Hypothetical: Vance wins in 2028, and as a means for proving he's his own man, he offers an olive branch to Canada that would return economic trade conditions to what they were before Trump. Do you really think your government will act like a jilted lover and say "No way. You hurt us. We don't trust you."

I don't think so. Canada is better with the US as a close economic ally, and the reverse is also true.
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Canada would of course go back to those policies but have government policies to direct trade to the world as a way to minimize risk of another trump style politician coming back to power.

The relationship will take a very long time to come close to what it was before
 
NatMorton said:
I'm not saying everything goes back to normal everywhere. Of course there will be cases like those you describe. My larger point stands, however. See post 366.
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I get what you're saying in 366 but to continue with my analogy Allan Inc will have the veto.

Vance and Carney can make all the trade deals they want but I'm not risking bankruptcy for my business by throwing my hat in with a supplier from an extremely unreliable country.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Canada would of course go back to those policies but have government policies to direct trade to the world as a way to minimize risk of another trump style politician coming back to power.

The relationship will take a very long time to come close to what it was before
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I think you're right when it comes to trusting Washington. I don't think the trust among the people in border towns and between affected businesses on both sides has been damaged and that's where economic trust really matters. So what if I hate or distrust your PM? What counts is whether I trust the guy selling me hockey pucks and maple syrup
 
NatMorton said:
This will sound odd, but I'm not sure trust really enters into it.

Hypothetical: Vance wins in 2028, and as a means for proving he's his own man, he offers an olive branch to Canada that would return economic trade conditions to what they were before Trump. Do you really think your government will act like a jilted lover and say "No way. You hurt us. We don't trust you."
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Yes. There is strong anti-American sentiment in Canada now. That is the point of this thread. Canadian politicians will score more political points with their base on either side of the isle by rejecting Vance's attempt to sweep America's shameful malfeasance under the rug.

And even if the politicians in Canada forgive and forget, the private enterprises in Canada will still be once bitten twice shy about relying on American companies.
 
Allan said:
I get what you're saying in 366 but to continue with my analogy Allan Inc will have the veto.

Vance and Carney can make all the trade deals they want but I'm not risking bankruptcy for my business by throwing my hat in with a supplier from an extremely unreliable country.
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The wariness will last for a long time, I agree. I think enough Canadian firms will take the chance to matter.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
Yes. There is strong anti-American sentiment in Canada now. That is the point of this thread. Canadian politicians will score more political points with their base on either side of the isle by rejecting Vance's attempt to sweep America's shameful malfeasance under the rug.

And even if the politicians in Canada forgive and forget, the private enterprises in Canada will still be once bitten twice shy about relying on American companies.
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See post 371.
 
NatMorton said:
I think you're right when it comes to trusting Washington. I don't think the trust among the people in border towns and between affected businesses on both sides has been damaged and that's where economic trust really matters. So what if I hate or distrust your PM? What counts is whether I trust the guy selling me hockey pucks and maple syrup
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Border towns is where the shit got real for a lot of folks.

US farmers depended on Canadian agricultural equipment and feed. That's gone.

Farmers have had to find other sources and Canadian companies have had to source other customers.

Both parties would be nuts to ever go back.
 
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