the TM murder case verdict and the Black community (1 Viewer)

[TurtleDude]

I might very well. Emotional involvement provokes emotional responses. That has jack **** to do with justice or logic.

its very logical

I shot a mugger once in an area that was supposedly somewhat safe.

when the scumbags learned that half the adults in the area had carry permits the muggings stopped for months

emotional is your ranting about the proper use of deadly force against people who need killing

 

[Aderleth]

homeowners should be doing the shooting as well

Yes, if you're defending your home, you probably have a right to shoot intruders. That is, however, a pretty significant drift from our initial conversation in numerous, fairly obvious ways.

 

[PirateMk1]

I might very well. Emotional involvement provokes emotional responses. That has jack **** to do with justice or logic.

Way I see it if they are rioting, then they dont respect my rights, specifically that of my property and my life. That being the case, I see no need to respect their rights, either their property or their lives. Perfectly justifed and logical to me.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yes, if you're defending your home, you probably have a right to shoot intruders. That is, however, a pretty significant drift from our initial conversation in numerous, fairly obvious ways.

what do you think is damaged when idiots riot?

 

[Aderleth]

its very logical

I shot a mugger once in an area that was supposedly somewhat safe.

when the scumbags learned that half the adults in the area had carry permits the muggings stopped for months

emotional is your ranting about the proper use of deadly force against people who need killing

And who does need killing?

 

[Aderleth]

Way I see it if they are rioting, then they dont respect my rights, specifically that of my property and my life. That being the case, I see no need to respect their rights, either their property or their lives. Perfectly justifed and logical to me.

As I've pointed out to Turtledude, it depends an awful lot on the details. I think it's a safe assumption that most rioters don't respect your property. I think it's a pretty significant leap to suggest that they don't (universally) respect your life. Those are two wildly distinguishable things, and the law is very much on my side on this issue (as it should be).

Let me put this in a different perspective. Largely what we're talking about, in terms of actual criminal activity, is people stealing stuff. That's not usually a crime that results in the death penalty. Would you think it reasonable to execute someone who has, for instance, forged a check in your name? Or embezzled $20k from the company that you run? If not, why are those situations different?

 

[TurtleDude]

And who does need killing?

people throwing bricks or fire bombs into the property of others

among others

the people who attacked our embassies over some moronic movie

 

[Aderleth]

what do you think is damaged when idiots riot?

To be clear: you started this conversation (from my perspective) by suggesting that all rioters deserve to be shot. Now we're talking about a far more specific subset of relatively genuine criminal activity. Almost none of it is cause for murder, but still, we've experienced some drift.

 

[Aderleth]

people throwing bricks or fire bombs into the property of others

among others

the people who attacked our embassies over some moronic movie

Ah. So now we're not talking about potential riots related to Trayvon Martin, we're talking about Muslim activity against our embassies? Is the conflation not readily apparent to you? You're a Yale grad. You've been trained better than this.

 

[PirateMk1]

As I've pointed out to Turtledude, it depends an awful lot on the details. I think it's a safe assumption that most rioters don't respect your property. I think it's a pretty significant leap to suggest that they don't (universally) respect your life. Those are two wildly distinguishable things, and the law is very much on my side on this issue (as it should be).

Let me put this in a different perspective. Largely what we're talking about, in terms of actual criminal activity, is people stealing stuff. That's not usually a crime that results in the death penalty. Would you think it reasonable to execute someone who has, for instance, forged a check in your name? Or embezzled $20k from the company that you run? If not, why are those situations different?

I got a very up close and personal view with riots. So that has formed my views on the matter which coincedently coincided with your views before the riots. Now not so much. My opinion is break out the heavy artillery and wipe floor with em, no quarter expected, none granted. Killem all and let god sort em out. Its a time for dealing some indiscrimenate justice of the lead variety. :bringit

 

[Aderleth]

I got a very up close and personal view with riots. So that has formed my views on the matter which coincedently coincided with your views before the riots. Now not so much. My opinion is break out the heavy artillery and wipe floor with em, no quarter expected, none granted. Killem all and let god sort em out. Its a time for dealing some indiscrimenate justice of the lead variety. :bringit

I can understand why you might feel that way. I might feel the same way if I'd experienced a riot directly. But here's the thing: That's not a good way to set up a legal system. If legality were determined entirely (or largely) by the victims of bad ****, every crime would be punished in ridiculously draconian ways. That's barbaric. It's irrational. And most importantly, it's really, really not just. Justice must be blind, and it must not be swayed by the anger and rage of the victims. If it was, every crime would result in the death penalty.

 

[PirateMk1]

I can understand why you might feel that way. I might feel the same way if I'd experienced a riot directly. But here's the thing: That's not a good way to set up a legal system. If legality were determined entirely (or largely) by the victims of bad ****, every crime would be punished in ridiculously draconian ways. That's barbaric. It's irrational. And most importantly, it's really, really not just. Justice must be blind, and it must not be swayed by the anger and rage of the victims. If it was, every crime would result in the death penalty.

I would in point of fact agree with you. After the riot.

While the riot is going on, I prefer my stance of indiscremenate justice. The way I see it they may as well be the Vandels or Visgoths that sacked Rome. They want act like barbarians, then as far as I am concerned they can be treated like barbarians, with the fullest of measures. Procecuted with extreme prejudice. You will find I have NO sympathey for them at all.

Legal systems are not in play DURING a riot or any other crime for that matter. They come into play after the fact. I am only talking about while a riot is ongoing.

 

[Aderleth]

I would in point of fact agree with you. After the riot.

While the riot is going on, I prefer my stance of indiscremenate justice. The way I see it they may as well be the Vandels or Visgoths that sacked Rome. They want act like barbarians, then as far as I am concerned they can be treated like barbarians, with the fullest of measures. Procecuted with extreme prejudice. You will find I have NO sympathey for them at all.

Legal systems are not in play DURING a riot or any other crime for that matter. They come into play after the fact. I am only talking about while a riot is ongoing.

That's fair enough. But it bears mentioning that your crimes will (after the fact) deserve just as much attention as their crimes. That's largely where I'm coming from on this. And of course I got into this thread to castigate Turtledude for essentially insisting on executions for everyone involved in a riot. That's just bat**** insane.

 

[PirateMk1]

That's fair enough. But it bears mentioning that your crimes will (after the fact) deserve just as much attention as their crimes. That's largely where I'm coming from on this. And of course I got into this thread to castigate Turtledude for essentially insisting on executions for everyone involved in a riot. That's just bat**** insane.

Better judged by twelve than carried by six. I understand. I aint got a problem with going in front of a jury to justify myself.

The way I see it if they manage to live though the riot then can enjoy being procecuted for it. I've no problem locking em up for a good long while as compromise. I have to say I lean toward Turtledude in that respect. So I probably am a touch bat**** nuts. But really, who isnt? :crazy3:

 

[Aderleth]

Better judged by twelve than carried by six. I understand. I aint got a problem with going in front of a jury to justify myself.

The way I see it if they manage to live though the riot then can enjoy being procecuted for it. I've no problem locking em up for a good long while as compromise. I have to say I lean toward Turtledude in that respect. So I probably am a touch bat**** nuts. But really, who isnt? :crazy3:

Hah! Well played sir. Obviously I disagree, but I appreciate your... let's go with moxie? Does that work?

 

[PirateMk1]

Hah! Well played sir. Obviously I disagree, but I appreciate your... let's go with moxie? Does that work?

Your talking to guy who open carries a .50cal cap and ball pistol in the state of California. Works so far.

 

[Aderleth]

Your talking to guy who open carries a .50cal cap and ball pistol in the state of California. Works so far.

Jesus. That sounds heavy (like, literally heavy to carry). I'm not a gun guy, but then I haven't lived in LA for several years now (and when I did, I mostly stuck to places where rich people hang out - usually as their bartender). SF (at least the parts that I frequent) don't generally warrant a gun. In fact I couldn't get into the building at which I work while carrying a gun, but I'm a lawyer, so that's probably a good thing.

 

[4Horsemen]

What should an atheist think about if the verdict isn't congruent to their personal believes about the case? The "God will deal with the demons"...doesn't seem to be a very logical approach. No matter which way the case turns out...there will be people who consider themselves advocates for one side or the other who will react in ways that aren't very God pleasing anyway.

We all live in the here and now. When there has been a event that happens that is condemned by a portion of any relative population, people want to see a pretty quick "human response" that leads so a legal conclusion. In any conclusion...there's always a winning side and a losing side.

People, regardless of the personal beliefs, or lack of beliefs in a supreme being - can choose to either act civil when a jury renders their verdict...or they can act like animals.

Whether a person chooses to surrender their anger or discontentment to the "God" of their understanding...or to a common sense decision to be civil...people must eventually accept that justice was served whether they agree with the verdict or not...and without resorting to UnGodly or uncivil behavior. If a person can't do that...then they will find themselves before a judge or jury awaiting a verdict.

And how do you know that every action doesn't require an equal and opposite reaction right away? Most people are totally clueless about what or when consequences of their actions set off an equal and opposite reaction are set in motion. A person might do something and say to themself..."Oh ****!" and know something is going to happen, but nobody sees the future...in most cases. I mean if you pull the pin in a live grenade and continue to hold it...then you might get pretty close to predicting the future. But...it could be a dud, too.

Any action outside of acting like we got some sense in the Black Community when the verdict comes down,
is the wrong action.

If you want to act a fool, then act a fool when Pookie shoots Tyrone.

Far too long the Black Community's energy towards justice is misguided.

We want 100% justice when the other nations do us wrong, but don't want 0% percentage of justice when we do each other wrong

 

[4Horsemen]

It has nothing to do with *anyone's* God nor demon bs

It will be based on forensic evidence and reliable witness testimony

what foolishness are you rambling on about. I'm talking about the REACTION of the Black Community when the verdict is in GZ's favor.which it will be.

PAY ATTENTION!!!

 

[4Horsemen]

anyone who riots over a verdict is exactly the same as the jihadists who rioted over some silly film. SCUM BAGS who need to be shot on sight. NO ONE has a personal stake or a personal grievance in this matter (save the two respective families) and anyone who engages in vandalism over whatever the verdict may be should be terminated with extreme prejudice. Its time to send a message to the scum of this nation that if you engage in rioting over something as silly as this case, you need to get a 7.62 enema but quick

People riot over court decisions everyday in the world. Ignorance spans the spectrum of mankind all races included. You make no sense here. it sounds very racist.

 

[Furiounova]

When the verdict comes down, which after all this time, it's most likely gonna end in the scumbag GZ's favor, I would ask that the Black community not cause a riot or act a fool because that's the reaction they want. your emotionally charged reaction that will most likely land you in jail for disturbing the peace.

The key is to let it go. GOD will deal with the demons in due time so don't sweat it. TM was murdered and we can look at it as a sign from GOD to us, to "come out of her" so to speak, or we can take this as a slap in the face and start rioting and causing the TSA to ramp up their wicked laws against us even more.

Every action doesn't require an equal an opposite reaction right away.

think about it. eace

I have no idea why you think GZ will win and I don't know who in the hell you think you are to try and tell African Americans how to behave.

 

[4Horsemen]

I have no idea why you think GZ will win and I don't know who in the hell you think you are to try and tell African Americans how to behave.

YOu must be white?

 

[Furiounova]

YOu must be white?

Now it all makes sense. You are obsessed with skin color.

 

[Jerry]

When the verdict comes down, which after all this time, it's most likely gonna end in the scumbag GZ's favor, I would ask that the Black community not cause a riot or act a fool because that's the reaction they want. your emotionally charged reaction that will most likely land you in jail for disturbing the peace.

The key is to let it go. GOD will deal with the demons in due time so don't sweat it. TM was murdered and we can look at it as a sign from GOD to us, to "come out of her" so to speak, or we can take this as a slap in the face and start rioting and causing the TSA to ramp up their wicked laws against us even more.

Every action doesn't require an equal an opposite reaction right away.

think about it. eace

GZ is Black....so why would the Black community riot either way? This was a Black on Black crime.

 

[4Horsemen]

GZ is Black....so why would the Black community riot either way? This was a Black on Black crime.

You are correct, He is an Israelite, but the Black Community still see him as a white man. they are not on the level in which you are thinking.