The Socialist Loophole in the Constitution

[Mach]

Two options to take when you want to abuse the government?

A. General Welfare.
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Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."

Step 1: Get the majority to back *anything* they believe contributes to their welfare.
Step 2: Use taxes collected primarily from the minority
Step 3: Give the majority what they want, at the expense of the minority.

You can apply this to nearly anything, as long as it's part of the customary culture, I dont' see how it's not a loophole.

B. Commerce:
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[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause[/ame]
The Commerce Clause is an enumerated power listed in the United States Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3). The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".

If you don't feel like using the less fashionable General Welfare Clause, just use this one.

Step 1: Get the majority to back just about *anything* finanically related
Step 2: Use taxes collected primarily from the minority as long as it's associated with commerce
Step2a: Steal underpants
Step 3: Profit! Give the majority what they want, at the expense of the minority

Is this really how it works? Because it seems that the courts keep suggesting that this IS appropriate, if it's determined appropriate at the ballot box...ouch, but that again just means the majority decides, regardless of what individual liberties you may have thought protected? I haven't researched this, maybe someone who has can explain how this isn't really approaching "nothing is off limits as long as they categorize it as "general welfare" or "commerce related".

 

[DarkWizard12]

but it's NOT JUST taking from the majority and giving to the minority, it's taking anything from any group, just to give it to another group, including politicians and lobbyists themselves.

 

[rathi]

Those clauses allowed for actions that are directly responsible for winning WW2 and becoming a world power today. While their somewhat vague nature may sometimes be exploited, its a cost well worth paying. Without them, we would be unable to deal with the new challenges of the modern world. You can't anticipate every possible circumstance when writing a legal document, so some flexibility is needed in order to function.

 

[lizzie]

Two options to take when you want to abuse the government?

A. General Welfare.

In the words of Madison:

With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.

It can be used as a loophole only if lawmakers are determined to make the Constitution a "living" document.

 

[Deuce]

Seems like an oversight on the founders' part then, eh?

 

[Mach]

Seems like an oversight on the founders' part then, eh?

Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness...as the majority defines it?

 

[molten_dragon]

It's not a loophole, because the founding fathers gave us the means of interpreting the constitution (the supreme court) within the constitution itself. Essentially if the supreme court interprets a vague portion of the document to say that it allows something, then it does. Problem solved.

 

[American]

Two options to take when you want to abuse the government?

A. General Welfare.
----------------------
Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."

Step 1: Get the majority to back *anything* they believe contributes to their welfare.
Step 2: Use taxes collected primarily from the minority
Step 3: Give the majority what they want, at the expense of the minority.

You can apply this to nearly anything, as long as it's part of the customary culture, I dont' see how it's not a loophole.

B. Commerce:
-----------------------
Commerce Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Commerce Clause is an enumerated power listed in the United States Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3). The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".

If you don't feel like using the less fashionable General Welfare Clause, just use this one.

Step 1: Get the majority to back just about *anything* finanically related
Step 2: Use taxes collected primarily from the minority as long as it's associated with commerce
Step2a: Steal underpants
Step 3: Profit! Give the majority what they want, at the expense of the minority

Is this really how it works? Because it seems that the courts keep suggesting that this IS appropriate, if it's determined appropriate at the ballot box...ouch, but that again just means the majority decides, regardless of what individual liberties you may have thought protected? I haven't researched this, maybe someone who has can explain how this isn't really approaching "nothing is off limits as long as they categorize it as "general welfare" or "commerce related".

I've already started a thread on the General Welfare clause here. You might want to go to the link.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/government-and-separation-powers/67796-general-welfare-clause.html