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The so-called scourge of undocumented immigrants examined scientifically

Shrink726

Shrink726

The tolerant left? I'm the intolerant left.
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These people are unbelievably hard working and, frankly, willing to do jobs that the vast majority of native born Americans simply won't do. When paid on the books they pay their taxes and here's a newsflash - - their involvement in crime of any sort is very substantially lower than that of native born American citizens.

So can someone remind me why we get our panties in an uproar over their presence in our country?


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NatMorton said:
Um, the law breaking rate for illegal immigrants is 100%.
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Nice try at hair splitting. You know damn well what "law breaking" we're talking about and their rate here is far less than half that of native born Americans.

Duh.
 
Shrink726 said:
Nice try at hair splitting. You know damn well what "law breaking" we're talking about and their rate here is far less than half that of native born Americans.

Duh.
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Oh, I see. You're saying If we ignore the laws illegal immigrants do break, they actually don't break very many laws.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
 
NatMorton said:
Oh, I see. You're saying If we ignore the laws illegal immigrants do break, they actually don't break very many laws.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
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What strawman bullshit. Here are a sampling of the crimes we're talking about - - rape, murder, drug sales and distribution, robbery, assault, etc.

Try to keep up.
 
Shrink726 said:
What strawman bullshit. Here are a sampling of the crimes we're talking about - - rape, murder, drug sales and distribution, robbery, assault, etc.

Try to keep up.
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Don't know why you're so upset. I said I understand. We're going to count only some lawbreaking but not all lawbreaking. Yes, I think that's an excellent way of showing that law breakers don't always break laws.
 
Hmm… does this mean that increased illegal immigration will lower US crime rates?

Of course, one must exclude immigration law violations from the crime statistics being used - otherwise, illegal immigrants are all committing at least one crime each day that they remain here illegally.
 
Shrink726 said:
These people are unbelievably hard working and, frankly, willing to do jobs that the vast majority of native born Americans simply won't do. When paid on the books they pay their taxes and here's a newsflash - - their involvement in crime of any sort is very substantially lower than that of native born American citizens.

So can someone remind me why we get our panties in an uproar over their presence in our country?


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Ever been to to county board budget meeting?
Go to a few....get reports from around the country....and that sir will answer the question for the majority of us
 
NatMorton said:
Don't know why you're so upset. I said I understand. We're going to count only some lawbreaking but not all lawbreaking. Yes, I think that's an excellent way of showing that law breakers don't always break laws.
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It's the same logic used to defend Trump.
 
The other law breaking the open borders crowd likes to ignore concerns work. These folks will tell you how valuable illegals are to the community as they "do work that most other people don't want to do." Well, if they're working and here illegally, they are most certainly working under the table and not paying taxes. That's a felony, so we're not just talking about ignoring immigration law violations.

But yes, so long as we ignore the laws illegal immigrants break, they don't break many laws at all.
 
NatMorton said:
Um, the law breaking rate for illegal immigrants is 100%.
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ttwtt78640 said:
Of course, one must exclude immigration law violations from the crime statistics being used - otherwise, illegal immigrants are all committing at least one crime each day that they remain here illegally.
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Crossing a political border is not malum in se, which both you know already.
 
Shrink726 said:
These people are unbelievably hard working and, frankly, willing to do jobs that the vast majority of native born Americans simply won't do.
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No, the fear is that they will do jobs cheaper than native Americans.

So can someone remind me why we get our panties in an uproar over their presence in our country?
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I'll give it a shot.

An enormous percentage of the population holds two fallacious beliefs:

1. They believe that the economy is a jobs program, and that lowering the price of labor makes the country worse off.

2. They believe in the fix-pie fallacy, that one person earning a dollar means another person was made worse off by one dollar.
 
aociswundumho said:
Crossing a political border is not malum in se, which both you know already.
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That doesn’t matter if the act could result in criminal charges. Driving at X mph over the posted limit isn’t malum in se either, yet could result in a criminal charge.
 
Shrink726 said:
These people are unbelievably hard working and, frankly, willing to do jobs that the vast majority of native born Americans simply won't do. When paid on the books they pay their taxes and here's a newsflash - - their involvement in crime of any sort is very substantially lower than that of native born American citizens.

So can someone remind me why we get our panties in an uproar over their presence in our country?


View attachment 67416486
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But Trump told me the Mexican rapist and criminals where on there way..... You mean he lied?
 
NatMorton said:
The other law breaking the open borders crowd likes to ignore concerns work. These folks will tell you how valuable illegals are to the community as they "do work that most other people don't want to do."
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No, that's what some leftists say, like the OP.

Immigrants make the country richer by doing the same work natives do but cheaper. Labor is a cost, not a benefit.

Well, if they're working and here illegally, they are most certainly working under the table and not paying taxes.
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Oh that's rich. The government makes it extremely difficult for an immigrant to work legally, therefore the immigrant becomes an instant criminal the moment he tries to create any value.

That's a felony, so we're not just talking about ignoring immigration law violations.

But yes, so long as we ignore the laws illegal immigrants break, they don't break many laws at all.
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aociswundumho said:
No, that's what some leftists say, like the OP.

Immigrants make the country richer by doing the same work natives do but cheaper. Labor is a cost, not a benefit.



Oh that's rich. The government makes it extremely difficult for an immigrant to work legally, therefore the immigrant becomes an instant criminal the moment he tries to create any value.
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Um, we're not discussing "immigrants." We're discussing illegal immigrants.

And yes, the moment an illegal immigrant works without a visa and fails to pay taxes he or she has committed a felony. Sorry if that bothers your political aesthetic.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That doesn’t matter if the act could result in criminal charges.
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Of course it matters, because only malum in se crimes make the natives worse off, and "making the natives worse off" is at the core of every anti-immigration argument.

ttwtt78640 said:
Driving at X mph over the posted limit isn’t malum in se either, yet could result in a criminal charge.
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That depends on the value of X.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, that's what some leftists say, like the OP.

Immigrants make the country richer by doing the same work natives do but cheaper. Labor is a cost, not a benefit.
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Nonsense. If that were true then third world nations (with very low labor costs) would be far better off. The economic benefit of higher wages is increased consumer demand.
 
NatMorton said:
Um, we're not discussing "immigrants." We're discussing illegal immigrants.
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Suppose an immigrant crosses the border from Canada into the US. He gets a job sweeping floors and cleaning up at a local factory, and he works off the books.

Specifically, who is being harmed by his actions?

NatMorton said:
And yes, the moment an illegal immigrant works without a visa and fails to pay taxes he or she has committed a felony. Sorry if that bothers your political aesthetic.
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ttwtt78640 said:
Nonsense. If that were true then third world nations (with very low labor costs) would be far better off. The economic benefit of higher wages is increased consumer demand.
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If that's true, then we should drastically raise minimum wage laws and reap the benefits. Agreed?
 
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