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The shutdown may have been for nothing

joko104 said:
They are exactly the same. Both post the risk of death to yourself and others. YOU don't want to be inconvenienced by driving slower - and you're fine with this killing tens of thousands of people and injuring hundreds of thousands a year - just because you don't want a minor inconvenience. At the same time, you demand everyone end all social contact, that tens of millions of people be forced into unemployment, tens of thousands of businesses ordered out of business and the entire country terrorized 24/7. PURE HYPOCRISY.

Why not 24/7 every day, week and month reporting vehicular deaths and injuries nationwide, for every state and worldwide - a number of over 1,000,000 deaths every year?

This has NOTHING to do with protecting people. It is entirely by the richest people on earth transferring the wealth of the middle class to themselves, while proving by taking total control of all information flow they can get people to instantly surrender any and all legal, civil and human rights - and even get tens of millions even demanding more of their rights be taken away.

Stop pretending you care about lives, when really you only care about yourself in your messages and demand the government impose you will on everyone else - also because you don't want the inconvenience of REALLY being quarantined. If you never left your residence it wouldn't matter what other people do. It's 100% only about YOU, no one else.
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Apples and oranges. This is a slippery slope fallacy. Driving faster than 20mph doesn't result in an exponential increase in deaths like not isolating during a pandemic does.
 
joko104 said:
The flu has killed more than a 100,000 Americans in a single year more than once claiming covid-19 has killed over 1 million people. You are just posting your wish for maximum death count potentials.

Testing is neither a cure nor preventative and over half of hospital beds are now empty.

I think you should not be allowed to drive over 20 mph because that endangers my life. The government should carry out my wishes to save lives.

Why don't YOU self-isolate and then you have nothing to worry about, do you?
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Everyone has to self isolate or the pandemic will spread exponentially and overwhelm the healthcare system. And see my above post about slippery slope fallacies.

A pandemic is in no way comparable to "driving faster than 20mph."
 
lwf said:
Correct. In most areas health professionals need a bit longer to stabilize the infection rate and get testing widely available.

That said: careful management of the infection rates coupled with widely available testing can allow for some smaller local economies to open with care. We need to be careful to be proactive rather than reactive. Just because some areas are seeing a spike in cases doesn't mean that other areas with a low infection rate, sufficient testing availability, and plenty of available health services can't open their businesses with careful social distancing. And just because people in other locations are losing their jobs and businesses are going under doesn't mean that opening their economy is the right move if infection rates are continuing to climb and there is no testing available.
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How does the testing help?
 
lwf said:
Everyone has to self isolate or the pandemic will spread exponentially and overwhelm the healthcare system. And see my above post about slippery slope fallacies.

A pandemic is in no way comparable to "driving faster than 20mph."
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No, everyone can not self isolate or we all starve to death. You are OK with people endangering their lives for you, aren't you? The healthcare system was not and is not overloaded. Even with over 50% of beds empty - meaning people who need them for other reasons are being denied - they generally tell people with covid-19 to just go home and self isolate.

Auto deaths are an annual pandemic of death and permanent injuries that could be prevented. But it would would inconvenience you. This shutdown for covid-19 isn't inconveniencing you much, is it? You stayed at home before this, right?
 
Robertinfremont said:
We have now, 50+ various laboratories. For instance Kauai as one. Idaho as another. I did not study all 50 states but those are all laboratories. We have several who have serious problems.

As vaunted doctors said, when they quarantined lepers, they did not lock up all countries. When they quarantine victims, you do not also lock up non victims.

So we did it wrong. But states took action. Trump gave advice. But his advidce came with caveats. Such as consult your own doctor.

I did consult my doctor. She asked questions checked my O level and said not to worry. Check your Oxygen level and if low, rush to the doctor. For $40 you can get your own meter.
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I am not concerned about your health, I am concerned about the health of the thousands of innocent people you spread your infection to when you don't self-quarantine. And whether or not a doctor is "vaunted" is irrelevant. If he holds a different scientific view than the majority, then it is foolish to ignore the majority of experts in favor of a small minority when establishing policy. This would only work in an astronomically small percentage of cases. Why would anyone do this?
 
lwf said:
Apples and oranges. This is a slippery slope fallacy. Driving faster than 20mph doesn't result in an exponential increase in deaths like not isolating during a pandemic does.
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Sure it does. One only has to look at accident statistics to see the death rate difference. The difference between auto accident death at 20 mph or less is likely geometrically less than accidents at 70 mph.
 
lwf said:
I am not concerned about your health, I am concerned about the health of the thousands of innocent people you spread your infection to when you don't self-quarantine. And whether or not a doctor is "vaunted" is irrelevant. If he holds a different scientific view than the majority, then it is foolish to ignore the majority of experts in favor of a small minority when establishing policy. This would only work in an astronomically small percentage of cases. Why would anyone do this?
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How is anyone who has quarantined endangered by people who don't?

Your experts have been wrong 100% of the time. It would have been more accurate flipping a coin.
 
joko104 said:
No, everyone can not self isolate or we all starve to death. You are OK with people endangering their lives for you, aren't you? The healthcare system was not and is not overloaded. Even with over 50% of beds empty - meaning people who need them for other reasons are being denied - they generally tell people with covid-19 to just go home and self isolate.
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Do you have a figure for the number of people who have starved to death as a result of the quarantine? Let's compare that figure to the number of people who have died from COVID-19. If the former is greater, then I will support reopening the economy.
 
Rawley said:
How does the testing help?
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Testing allows for only people who test positive for COVID-19 to be quarantined. If we can test everyone, we can reopen the economy AND eradicate the virus. The only better outcome would be a vaccine, which is still probably a year away.
 
joko104 said:
How is anyone who has quarantined endangered by people who don't?

Your experts have been wrong 100% of the time. It would have been more accurate flipping a coin.
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What have they been wrong about?
 
lwf said:
Testing allows for only people who test positive for COVID-19 to be quarantined. If we can test everyone, we can reopen the economy AND eradicate the virus. The only better outcome would be a vaccine, which is still probably a year away.
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You are going to test three hundred and forty million people? On a daily basis?
 
Rawley said:
You are going to test three hundred and forty million people? On a daily basis?
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It doesn't need to be on a daily basis. Make testing a prerequisite for returning to work. Maybe go in every 15 or 30 days for a retest to continue working. Until we can do this, self-isolation and social distancing are the only other option.
 
lwf said:
It doesn't need to be on a daily basis. Make testing a prerequisite for returning to work. Maybe go in every 15 or 30 days for a retest to continue working. Until we can do this, self-isolation and social distancing are the only other option.
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Don't see how that works. I test positive today. My kid comes home and infects me. I'm asymtomatic. I go back to my plant and infect 3,000 people in the next 30 days because it's assumed I'm negative.
 
lwf said:
It doesn't need to be on a daily basis. Make testing a prerequisite for returning to work. Maybe go in every 15 or 30 days for a retest to continue working. Until we can do this, self-isolation and social distancing are the only other option.
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It's ridiculous.

"Testing" is nothing but a red herring. It's not possible to test the entire population. And to what end? You test negative today, you could be positive tomorrow. Further, you can't establish a baseline.

It's not like a sexually transmitted disease. You can't track all the people you may have come into contact with. Literally impossible.

I think you people push "testing" because it will dig up all those asymptomatic cases and/or mild cases, drive up the stats (and that's happening), and then you can keep us under house arrest forever.
 
AmericanGirl05 said:
It's ridiculous.

"Testing" is nothing but a red herring. It's not possible to test the entire population. And to what end? You test negative today, you could be positive tomorrow. Further, you can't establish a baseline.

It's not like a sexually transmitted disease. You can't track all the people you may have come into contact with. Literally impossible.

I think you people push "testing" because it will dig up all those asymptomatic cases and/or mild cases, drive up the stats (and that's happening), and then you can keep us under house arrest forever.
Click to expand...

Seems like another reason to move the goalposts back another 10 yards, then a another ten yards.
 
joko104 said:
They are exactly the same. Both post the risk of death to yourself and others. YOU don't want to be inconvenienced by driving slower - and you're fine with this killing tens of thousands of people and injuring hundreds of thousands a year - just because you don't want a minor inconvenience. At the same time, you demand everyone end all social contact, that tens of millions of people be forced into unemployment, tens of thousands of businesses ordered out of business and the entire country terrorized 24/7. PURE HYPOCRISY.

Why not 24/7 every day, week and month reporting vehicular deaths and injuries nationwide, for every state and worldwide - a number of over 1,000,000 deaths every year?

This has NOTHING to do with protecting people. It is entirely by the richest people on earth transferring the wealth of the middle class to themselves, while proving by taking total control of all information flow they can get people to instantly surrender any and all legal, civil and human rights - and even get tens of millions even demanding more of their rights be taken away.

Stop pretending you care about lives, when really you only care about yourself in your messages and demand the government impose you will on everyone else - also because you don't want the inconvenience of REALLY being quarantined. If you never left your residence it wouldn't matter what other people do. It's 100% only about YOU, no one else.
Click to expand...

In a variety of ways, this mirrors the arguments made in the 1861 South over their own freedom. They as you and I want, is to have been left alone. We are free so let our fredom dictate to us where we go to shop.

Doctors put it succinctly by saying when there were Lepers, those were quarantined. The rest of the population was not locked away.

We at home daily are in effect, locked away. I hardly open the outside door. And due to State of Idaho orders. A woman took her children to the park and got arrested here. She was guilty of wanting her kids to play and telling the cops who showed up she wanted then to keep playing. She later apologized due to the Cops home being harassed by protestors. But her point is she is not guilty of more than being a mom with kids wanting them to be like kids.
 
Rawley said:
Seems like another reason to move the goalposts back another 10 yards, then a another ten yards.
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It keeps happening. You have the Scarf Queen and Fauci saying one thing in front of Trump and another when they are in MSM interviews. Time to cut back their camera time.

Every two weeks there's a later deadline. And over the weekend you had some adviser to Governor Blackface Klan say that Virginia couldn't get TO Phase One for 18 months.
 
Robertinfremont said:
In a variety of ways, this mirrors the arguments made in the 1861 South over their own freedom. They as you and I want, is to have been left alone. We are free so let our fredom dictate to us where we go to shop.

Doctors put it succinctly by saying when there were Lepers, those were quarantined. The rest of the population was not locked away.

We at home daily are in effect, locked away. I hardly open the outside door. And due to State of Idaho orders. A woman took her children to the park and got arrested here. She was guilty of wanting her kids to play and telling the cops who showed up she wanted then to keep playing. She later apologized due to the Cops home being harassed by protestors. But her point is she is not guilty of more than being a mom with kids wanting them to be like kids.
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DC has National Guard stationed in one of our larger traffic circle parks to make sure people -- with kids, dogs, playing frisbee -- don't congregate. My husband witnessed the cops separating a married couple sitting on a park bench.
 
Robertinfremont said:
In a variety of ways, this mirrors the arguments made in the 1861 South over their own freedom. They as you and I want, is to have been left alone. We are free so let our fredom dictate to us where we go to shop.

Doctors put it succinctly by saying when there were Lepers, those were quarantined. The rest of the population was not locked away.

We at home daily are in effect, locked away. I hardly open the outside door. And due to State of Idaho orders. A woman took her children to the park and got arrested here. She was guilty of wanting her kids to play and telling the cops who showed up she wanted then to keep playing. She later apologized due to the Cops home being harassed by protestors. But her point is she is not guilty of more than being a mom with kids wanting them to be like kids.
Click to expand...

DC has National Guard stationed in one of our larger traffic circle parks to make sure people -- with kids, dogs, playing frisbee -- don't congregate. My husband witnessed the cops separating a married couple sitting on a park bench.
 
AmericanGirl05 said:
It keeps happening. You have the Scarf Queen and Fauci saying one thing in front of Trump and another when they are in MSM interviews. Time to cut back their camera time.

Every two weeks there's a later deadline. And over the weekend you had some adviser to Governor Blackface Klan say that Virginia couldn't get TO Phase One for 18 months.
Click to expand...

As long as the hospitals are not being overrun - time to open up. You could see it here this weekend. People were flocking the few beaches that were open. We're so over the lockdown.
 
AmericanGirl05 said:
It's ridiculous.

"Testing" is nothing but a red herring. It's not possible to test the entire population. And to what end? You test negative today, you could be positive tomorrow. Further, you can't establish a baseline.

It's not like a sexually transmitted disease. You can't track all the people you may have come into contact with. Literally impossible.

I think you people push "testing" because it will dig up all those asymptomatic cases and/or mild cases, drive up the stats (and that's happening), and then you can keep us under house arrest forever.
Click to expand...

If you test negative today, and you go to work with only people who have also tested negative, how are you going to contract the virus?

Epidemiologists are pushing testing because testing works:



To suggest that testing is some kind of insidious plot to attack Trump is laughable nonsense. It is a particularly inept conspiracy theory that would only fool the hopelessly stupid.
 
lwf said:
If you test negative today, and you go to work with only people who have also tested negative, how are you going to contract the virus?
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Are you serious? I test negative in the morning. My kid comes home and infects me at night. I go to work the next day and infect everyone i work with.
 
lwf said:
If you test negative today, and you go to work with only people who have also tested negative, how are you going to contract the virus?

Epidemiologists are pushing testing because testing works:



To suggest that testing is some kind of insidious plot to attack Trump is laughable nonsense. It is a particularly inept conspiracy theory that would only fool the hopelessly stupid.
Click to expand...


How are you going to get it? Well, you may have been in the incubation period -- that's one way. Another way is that a member of your family contracts it and you get it -- that's two. A third way is that a client, a customer passes it on to you -- three. Or you get it on public transportation -- four. You eat in a restaurant or bring in food and you get it from that. Or the grocery store or the pharmacy.
 
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