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The Second Amendment ONLY applies to Americans in the military (full-time or reserves)

For the purpose of a well regulated militia. You cant just ignore the prefatory clause. Its always defined the purpose of the clause. Otherwise you wouldnt have such clause like the first doesnt.
It's a sufficient but not necessary clause.

If the Founders didn't believe that the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right, why did they include it in state constitutions prior to and subsequent to the ratification of Bill of Rights?
 
Maybe, but maybe not. His interpretation may be that the right to eat cereal (or any other breakfast food?) is void unless one adds a (properly?) generous serving of milk to it. ;)

He also didn't argue only people from age 18 to 45 are allowed firearms. I'm surprised the outlawing of anyone under 21 having a handgun has never been challenged since 2A sets the age at 18.

He makes the false assumption that there is no reason for the public to have firearms unless in the militia asserting there is no benefit to a militia having non-militia having firearms to provide to the militia. I have a huge cache of firearms and ammo, mostly inherited and most are retired military firearms, plus then my own. I'm over 45 and am not in any militia. But in a situation where a militia needed to act in some crisis, I could provide the firearms to dozens of people in the militia. Simply, the founders wanted the public to have firearms in case firearms are needed. It is not just about having a potential militia. It is about having firearms.

Remember, unlike most Democrats now, the Founder's saw government - not we-the-people - as the enemy and the danger. The Democratic Party now sees ordinary citizens as the #1 enemy of the government, which is their god. Nearly all would have been Royalists during the American Revolutionary War, fighting for King George. They make no secret that no one must oppose any government power over people.
 
Back in that day a man with a rifle was well regulated. A man with a rock was not. Both armed though.......
Yes, as long as the rifle worked AND the individual knew what to do with it. One of Washingtons greatest complaints was that the minute men were showing up ill trained, with no supplies, and with weapons that didnt function reliably.
 
For the purpose of a well regulated militia. You cant just ignore the prefatory clause. Its always defined the purpose of the clause. Otherwise you wouldnt have such clause like the first doesnt. You ask others to diagram the sentence then immediately skip to your favorite portion.

That is exactly what you do in terms of application of the actual language of effect. The prefatory clause to the US Constitution is the Declaration of Independence which "all men are created equal." Yet the original Constitution then said exactly the opposite. Was there EVER a case won for the rights of Native Americans or other minorities based upon the Declaration of Independence? Absolutely not. It took amendments and federal statutes to make the "prefatory clause" of the Declaration of Independence language on equal rights actual law.

Nearly all statutes and regulations begin with stating the purpose - and then the actual language of the law. What matters? The language of the law, not trying to mind read by any statement of goals.
 
For the purpose of a well regulated militia. You cant just ignore the prefatory clause. Its always defined the purpose of the clause. Otherwise you wouldnt have such clause like the first doesnt. You ask others to diagram the sentence then immediately skip to your favorite portion.
Oh I agree that it matters. Because what it states is that the people should be armed not just with guns to hunt or guns to protect themselves, but also weapons to defend the free state in a time of war.
 
Yes, as long as the rifle worked AND the individual knew what to do with it. One of Washingtons greatest complaints was that the minute men were showing up ill trained, with no supplies, and with weapons that didnt function reliably.

There weren’t any rifles in Washington’s time (until very near his death), they relied on smooth bore muskets.
 
Because the court’s rulings matter? Duh lol..
Learn what the 'f' 'Duh' even means before you use it.
That way - you won't look so ignorant.
There is NO WAY one could know what the heck you are talking about from your sentence.
And I still do not have a clue what you are talking about.

Now either answer my question or buzz off.

What ruling's specifically?
And why should I refute them?


DUH!!!
 
For the purpose of a well regulated militia. You cant just ignore the prefatory clause. Its always defined the purpose of the clause. Otherwise you wouldnt have such clause like the first doesnt. You ask others to diagram the sentence then immediately skip to your favorite portion.

Using that ”logic” the type of arms being addressed were clearly “military style”, yet many attempt to argue that those may be banned.
 
For the purpose of a well regulated militia. You cant just ignore the prefatory clause. Its always defined the purpose of the clause. Otherwise you wouldnt have such clause like the first doesnt. You ask others to diagram the sentence then immediately skip to your favorite portion.
How can the Second protect the arms of the militia? How can it protect the right of the People to bear arms in a militia?
 
2'nd Amendment
'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

So...what exactly is 'A well regulated Militia'?

The Militia Act of 1903

'The first section reiterates the law of 1793, that the militia shall consist of every able-bodied citizen between eighteen and forty-five, and divides the militia into two classes — the organized militia or National Guard, and the unorganized or reserve militia.
The third section defines the " organized militia " as the regu- larly enlisted, organized, and uniformed militia which shall here- after participate in the annual militia appropriation (heretofore only one million a year). It gives the President authority to fix the minimum number of enlisted men in each company.'

So...there are two kinds of militia - according to US law.
The organized and the unorganized.

And since the 2'nd Amendment refers SOLELY to
'a well regulated Militia'?
Than, the 2'nd Amendment cannot POSSIBLY include the 'unorganized militia'.
It is not possible for a 'well regulated Militia' to be 'unorganized'.

And since the ONLY organized militia refers ONLY to the military?
The 2'nd Amendment does NOT include ANYONE whom is not in the military.
By law.
Holy ****!!!

We've had this wrong for more than 200 years but finally you managed to figure out what might be the most egregious fraud ever foisted on the American people!!!



....



Or not.
 
Firearms weren't strictly prohibited in Dodge City. Residents could still own them, non-law enforcement employees and relatives of Wyatt Earp could carry them, and criminals simply ignored the law.
Yes pay no attention to the signs,
 
🙄

I did not realize I had to be THIS picky with people.

Fine:

From the Code of Laws of the United States of America:

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes:​

'(a)
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are—

(1)
the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2)
the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.'




THERE!

WHERE?

As in where do you see any term identifying the "organized militia" as exclusive to being "well-regulated?"

You really have no support for your position, aside from your personal interpretations.

Meanwhile, we have all sorts of history and judicial interpretation (which we do use here in the USA, while who knows what you use up in Canada) that you choose to ignore.

Your position is not a new one, it has been pushed forward time and again and refuted time and time again.

It always ignores the most important segment, "the RIGHT of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
 
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What part of

Pennsylvania: 1776: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves...

Vermont: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves...

Kentucky: 1792: "That the right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves...
..
Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself...

Are you missing? Every single one of these indicate an individual right.
That has nothing to do with the 2nd at all. Federal laws regulating firearms have been around for nearly 100 years.
 
We have not used militia's for "the security of a free State" since WWI. I bet you didn't know that we had gun control in the old west too.

WALDMAN: It's a dusty street, and in the middle of the street is a sign that says, welcome to Dodge City, firearms strictly prohibited. So even then, there was more nuanced sense of what the right to keep and bear arms meant than sometimes we might imagine.
INSKEEP: In other words, this was never seen as an absolute right, so far as you know.
WALDMAN: The right to keep and bear arms from the beginning was something that was not an absolute right. It was based on public need and public safety as well as individual freedom. The very first federal gun law came in the 1930s, and for that, you can thank John Dillinger - the bank robbers because they had new technology in the form of sawed-off shotguns and guns from World War I and a getaway car, which was a very brand-new dangerous technology. So they passed federal gun laws.

So I think we now have to decide as a country how we want to balance individual rights and public safety. It's not really going to be up to the framers. It's really up to us. And again, that is how we've always made constitutional change. It's really always been a matter of moving public opinion before the courts will ever move.

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That was not a federal law and depended heavily on some constitutionally questionable (to say the least) enforcement methods and numerous friends and relatives were exempt (above the law?). The 2A had not yet been considered to have been ‘incorporated’ (applicable to the several states).
 
That has nothing to do with the 2nd at all. Federal laws regulating firearms have been around for nearly 100 years.
A whole 100 years out of the almost 245 years of the existence of the US? Why didn't the Founders impose any federal gun control?

The same folks who imposed the first federal gun control laws were the same people who put American citizens in concentration camps. Perhaps they aren't the best example of folks who respect the rights of citizens.
 
That was not a federal law and depended heavily on some constitutionally questionable (to say the least) enforcement methods and numerous friends and relatives were exempt (above the law?). The 2A had not yet been considered to have been ‘incorporated’ (applicable to the several states).
The point is that owning guns has NEVER been a protected right in this country.
 
By the way.

I do not begin to care how the SCOTUS 'interpreted' the Constitution.

The SCOTUS is not allowed to do ANYTHING but base their verdicts on the Constitution AS WRITTEN.
They took an oath(s) to that effect.
So I do not BEGIN to care what SCOTUS decisions based on their inferences or beliefs are or were.


Nor do I much care what people think what the Founding Fathers meant when they drafted the 2'nd Amendment.

It is TOTALLY irrelevant to me what the Founding Fathers may have 'meant' or wrote or said about ANYTHING.
ALL that matters to me - in terms of the Constitution - is the Constitution AS WRITTEN.

Well gun bunnies?
Start foaming at the mouth.
So there is nothing to discuss. You don't care what is legal, you only care about your interpretation that is clearly not Constitutional.

Enjoy yelling at clouds.
 
The point is that owning guns has NEVER been a protected right in this country.
Pennsylvania: 1776: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power. Declaration of Rights, cl. XIII.

Vermont: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State -- and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power. Ch. I, art. 16 (enacted 1777, ch. I, art. 15).

Kentucky: 1792: "That the right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned." Art. XII, § 23.

Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state. Art. I, § 15 (enacted 1818, art. I, § 17).


The constitutions and courts of the various states indicated an individual rights viewpoint at least 66 times..

 
A whole 100 years out of the almost 245 years of the existence of the US? Why didn't the Founders impose any federal gun control?

The same folks who imposed the first federal gun control laws were the same people who put American citizens in concentration camps. Perhaps they aren't the best example of folks who respect the rights of citizens.
The proliferation of modern and far more deadly weapons was the reason for Federal laws. The founders were only talking about muzzle loading black powder weapons. They are the only ones that should be protected by the 2nd too. If you are going to base this "right" on a antiquated amendment it should only apply to antiquated weapons too.
The very first federal gun law came in the 1930s, and for that, you can thank John Dillinger - the bank robbers because they had new technology in the form of sawed-off shotguns and guns from World War I and a getaway car, which was a very brand-new dangerous technology. So they passed federal gun laws.
 
That is not what the sign said is it?
Did it apply to the whole town, or just the northern "civilized" portion? Did the law in Tombstone apply to everyone?
 
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