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The Russian Navy's Biggest Enemy Isn’t NATO (It’s Fire)

Glen Contrarian

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Wow. I remember the days when we were freaking out about the Akula class subs...and the Russian subs are still a significant concern. But the fact that their fleets don't depart port without an ocean-going tug tagging along, yeah, that does tell us a lot.

Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about the Chinese Navy - it's not nearly as powerful or wide-ranging as the old Soviet Navy was, but their navy (and their air force) is modernizing very quickly indeed.
 

Beaudreaux

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Four biggest threats to the Russian navy - 1) fire, 2) rust, 3) vodka, and 4) lack of funding.

However, they are still very dangerous, and capable of inflicting severe damage on anyone stupid enough to test them. The average Russian are extremely nationalistic and more patriotic than the average American. Their military is fierce, and should be respected. Yet, the article is correct, in that their conventional forces are nowhere near the level of military readiness and capability that they were prior to 1991.

Their nuclear forces can still vaporize all of our cites and kill the world in the process. Just sayin'.
 

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Wow. I remember the days when we were freaking out about the Akula class subs...and the Russian subs are still a significant concern. But the fact that their fleets don't depart port without an ocean-going tug tagging along, yeah, that does tell us a lot.

Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about the Chinese Navy - it's not nearly as powerful or wide-ranging as the old Soviet Navy was, but their navy (and their air force) is modernizing very quickly indeed.

People don't realize that it only takes about 3-4 of their subs being successful in a worst case scenario, to change the way the world is now.
 

radcen

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Wow. I remember the days when we were freaking out about the Akula class subs...and the Russian subs are still a significant concern. But the fact that their fleets don't depart port without an ocean-going tug tagging along, yeah, that does tell us a lot.

Personally, I'm a lot more concerned about the Chinese Navy - it's not nearly as powerful or wide-ranging as the old Soviet Navy was, but their navy (and their air force) is modernizing very quickly indeed.
Yeah, that really jumped out at me, too.
 

Van Basten

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Four biggest threats to the Russian navy - 1) fire, 2) rust, 3) vodka, and 4) lack of funding.

However, they are still very dangerous, and capable of inflicting severe damage on anyone stupid enough to test them. The average Russian are extremely nationalistic and more patriotic than the average American. Their military is fierce, and should be respected. Yet, the article is correct, in that their conventional forces are nowhere near the level of military readiness and capability that they were prior to 1991.

Their nuclear forces can still vaporize all of our cites and kill the world in the process. Just sayin'.

You worried? I'm not.
 

Glen Contrarian

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People don't realize that it only takes about 3-4 of their subs being successful in a worst case scenario, to change the way the world is now.

Very true - but as much as I really, really, really don't like Putin, I think he's a rational actor - he's not going to do something that stupid.
 

Thoreau72

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Very true - but as much as I really, really, really don't like Putin, I think he's a rational actor - he's not going to do something that stupid.

I suspect that his doing something stupid is firmly linked to NATO doing something stupid.
 

Rogue Valley

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I suspect that his doing something stupid is firmly linked to NATO doing something stupid.
NATO was in hibernation until Putin invaded his neighbor in 2014.

Previous to this, no nation had invaded and changed borders via military force since the end of WWII.
 

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Russia is getting antsy with oil prices so low.
Falling oil prices: Who are the winners and losers? - BBC News
That link is more than a year old.

I am not as concerned with new Russian heavy iron when they are going broke as I am about their trying to reclaim territory the USSR lost in '91. It was the surrounding members that had more diversified economies as I recall. Especially Ukraine and Poland.
 

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Russian navy has been a joke for a while, they failed to build a successful aircraft carrier, yes they built them, but they were pretty big failures. The chinese have been trying to modify the russian carrier platform to make it usefull. Their ships were often subpar to americas, or any western country, their subs though even inferior to ours were not to be toyed with.

Russians built what they have based off what they needed. Their navy focused on sub developement, their military overall focused more on ground and air. Their aircraft in the past reflected their needs, during the cold war their jets lagged far behind ours, but they had reliability and ruggedness down. When the us captured a mig, the only thing they copied was it's landing gear, because russia did not have the abundance of airports america did then, they made them so rugged they could take off from sand, grass, rocky terrain etc instead of just pavement .
 

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Simpleχity;1066058594 said:
NATO was in hibernation until Putin invaded his neighbor in 2014.

Previous to this, no nation had invaded and changed borders via military force since the end of WWII.

Sure buddy, and Bill Clinton didn't have sex with that woman. :doh
 

Rogue Valley

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Sure buddy, and Bill Clinton didn't have sex with that woman. :doh
As usual, you resort to diversion when you cannot refute a fact.

No European nation has had its border redrawn by military force since WWII until Stalin Putin invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014.
 

Thoreau72

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Simpleχity;1066061865 said:
As usual, you resort to diversion when you cannot refute a fact.

No European nation has had its border redrawn by military force since WWII until Stalin Putin invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014.

I didn't resort to diversion, I merely offered a statement equally untrue and ridiculous as yours. :mrgreen:
 

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I didn't resort to diversion, I merely offered a statement equally untrue and ridiculous as yours. :mrgreen:

Which nation's borders have changed by military force? I am curious.:shrug:
 

kanabco

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Sure buddy, and Bill Clinton didn't have sex with that woman. :doh
So you think that was sex? Ok.
Me?
No way!
That was foreplay where I come from.
Especially if I paid for it!:naughty
 

Thoreau72

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So you think that was sex? Ok.
Me?
No way!
That was foreplay where I come from.
Especially if I paid for it!:naughty

Well it certainly wasn't checkers, was it? ;)

As for borders, a really thorough examination of the matter would require analysis over several hundred years, as borders change.
 

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Simpleχity;1066058594 said:
NATO was in hibernation until Putin invaded his neighbor in 2014.

Previous to this, no nation had invaded and changed borders via military force since the end of WWII.

I dunno, North and South Vietnam became just Vietnam, and I'm pretty sure there was military force involved.
 

American

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Russia is getting antsy with oil prices so low.
Falling oil prices: Who are the winners and losers? - BBC News
That link is more than a year old.

I am not as concerned with new Russian heavy iron when they are going broke as I am about their trying to reclaim territory the USSR lost in '91. It was the surrounding members that had more diversified economies as I recall. Especially Ukraine and Poland.

Russian can blame OPEC for low oil prices.
 

Rogue Valley

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I dunno, North and South Vietnam became just Vietnam, and I'm pretty sure there was military force involved.

My statement was precise and not at all complicated...

Simpleχity;1066061865 said:
No European nation has had its border redrawn by military force since WWII until Stalin Putin invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014.
 

Kobie

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Simpleχity;1066065060 said:
My statement was precise and not at all complicated...

You posted that after the post I quoted. Go check.
 

Rogue Valley

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You posted that after the post I quoted. Go check.
Inded. You quoted my Post #10...

Simpleχity;1066058594 said:
NATO was in hibernation until Putin invaded his neighbor in 2014.

Previous to this, no nation had invaded and changed borders via military force since the end of WWII.

I thought it was obvious via context that the above referred to the European theater. Even so, I further clarified in Post #14...

Simpleχity;1066061865 said:
No European nation has had its border redrawn by military force since WWII until Stalin Putin invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014.

Both of my above posts preceded your N/S Vietnam Post #19...

I dunno, North and South Vietnam became just Vietnam, and I'm pretty sure there was military force involved.

At any rate, my apology for any misunderstanding.
 

Mark F

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As for borders, a really thorough examination of the matter would require analysis over several hundred years, as borders change.

No it wouldn't. Read the question again:

Simpleχity;1066061865 said:
As usual, you resort to diversion when you cannot refute a fact.

No European nation has had its border redrawn by military force since WWII until Stalin Putin invaded and annexed Crimea in 2014.

Which nation's borders have changed by military force? I am curious.:shrug:

You don't need to do your usual duck, dodge, and evade - simply go back to 1945 - not centuries - and tell everyone which countries in Europe have had its borders re-drawn by military force since the end of WWII.

Shouldn't be too tough, even for you Brave Sir Robin.
 

Mark F

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Simpleχity;1066058594 said:
NATO was in hibernation until Putin invaded his neighbor in 2014.

Previous to this, no nation had invaded and changed borders via military force since the end of WWII.

The state of readiness of many NATO nations is appalling. For example: on exercises the German's -who 25 years ago fielded the largest, best equipped armed forces in Europe - run out of spare parts and have guys running around with hand tools instead of guns. More than half of the German Air Force is grounded for lack of spares.

France and Britain during the Libyan air campaign quickly began to run low on munitions for their aircraft.
 
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