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The Roma repatriation
Gavin Hewitt | 12:00 UK time, Thursday, 19 August 2010
It is a desperate way to survive. In many European cities you can find women begging for money. Many of them are Roma. They squat on the Champs Elysees. They stand by the Brandenburg gate in Berlin or in the square at Alexanderplatz. Many carry children and some have cards asking for money. They sit on the stairs leading out of the metro station at Avenue Louise in Brussels. They crowd around the entrances to the Gare du Nord in Paris.
There is evidence that much of the begging is organised and controlled by men. The women are expected to bring in at least 50 euros a day. Some, like outside the Gare Du Nord, operate in groups of up to 15. The police believed that invalids and children, who are used to gain sympathy, are shared out between the groups.
It is the view of the French president that begging is part of a wider deeper problem involving some of the Roma. He believes that illegal Roma camps on the edge of French cities are a linked to serious crime. The Elysee Palace explained that the Roma camps were "sources of illegal trafficking, profoundly shocking living standards, the exploitation of children for begging, prostitution and crime."
Other countries have recently taken action against Roma groups. Demark has expelled some of them, so has Sweden. Germany has paid some to return to Bulgaria or Romania, where most of them originate from.
Gavin Hewitt: BBC Blog
If they didn't duck paying council tax and didn't steal other peoples' land (amongst other things), they might not have such an image problem.
Make no mistake, this is no Roma problem but a dregs of society problem. It's been aeons since we had PROPER gypsies working on the land and fighting generally groundless accusations of scumbaggery.
--snip-- If militant 'traveller' groups are devious enough to push and exploit the totalitarian dictators' club of the UN classing them as a distinct race, then you know you're dealing with the pros. --
--snip--
As for the anti-social criminals who just barge in and snatch whatever they want for themselves?
I find their plight unfortunate. I know they are involved in petty crime for the sake of survival, and I think they should be punished on a case-by-case basis, but a lot of that survival behavior is based on them having to adapt to the modern world. Nomadic peoples need big swaths of area for migration and their natural livelihood, and it's inevitable that they are going to run into problems in Europe.
It's difficult to explain the situation to people who only see the world as a bordered system of nations. A lot of cultures, particularly nomadic ones, have never seen it that way and continue to roam the land as they always have. France has a lot of social instability right now because of the culture clashes; I find it sad that the Roma are being made scapegoats because of it. Sarkozy is using it as a diversionary tactic.
Most are not nomadic and have not been for a long time. Crime is not for the sake of survival, but a family business for many.
Stop watching Fox NewsThere is not "a lot" of social instability in France.. no more than there is in the US or other nations due to the economic crisis.
I know they are involved in petty crime for the sake of survival....
You can't typecast the entire people based on that.
Um... I'm not some sycophant who watches the news and thinks he knows everything. I've been a student of France's social situation for a while. There have been racial tensions broiling there for a long time now, and now a neo-con is in power.
I don't see why you feel the need to bring the U.S. into it. We already know that the U.S. has economic problems, and that it has issues; right now we are talking about France and the Roma. Pointing out the U.S. doesn't negate anything I've said about France.
It's like me showing you and orange and you point to apple and say "That's a fruit too!" Well thanks for telling me that, but I'm talking about the orange.
Most are not nomadic and have not been for a long time. Crime is not for the sake of survival, but a family business for many.
I couldn't speak for all Roma or Irish Tinkers / Travellers but they did certainly live a nomadic life, the Roma particularly in Eastern Europe were persecuted and then forced to live in govt housing.
As for crime, when you can't get a job or bank account because you don't have a (static) residential address to rceive post at you automatically are reduced to the borderline. I'm sure many will be involved in larger scale crime but inability to pay tax / national insurance automatically puts you in the "criminal category."
Not having a permanent address and having the propensity to move around various states or counties automatically means you can't pay local govt taxes and are again classified as criminal. I just feel we haven't planned to make allowances (as European societies) for peoples whose historical lifestyle does not fit in with our traditions.
They're not liked because no one knows where their money comes from. They all have giant caravans, expensive Mercedes cars...how do they pay that? Where do they work? Most people who work all day long couldn't afford their cars!
According to the British Medical Association, the community has the lowest life expectancy and highest rate of child mortality in the UK. Nomadic Gypsies fare particularly badly when it comes to health care, as the absence of a permanent address makes registering with a GP far more difficult. Ofsted has also reported low levels of educational achievement and high rates of illiteracy among Traveller children, due to a disrupted education and bullying.
The British National Party has said in previous local election campaigns that it will evict Travellers, while the campaigning organisation Minority Rights Group International reports that there have been racist attacks on campsites in the UK, many of which are not reported to the police.
"In my experience, racism against Travellers has definitely got worse over the past 40 years. In some bits of Europe, this is due to the fall of Communism and rise of nationalism, but in the UK, it's probably linked with anti-immigration feelings," said Grattan Puxon, founder of the Gypsy Council and the author of a number of books on the Traveller community, most recently the 2007 novel Freeborn Traveller.
Looks like the UK ones are not so wealthy as the ones in Belguim Bub, certainly if life expentancy has anything to do with it
'No blacks, no dogs,no Gypsies' - Home News, UK - The Independent
The BBC reckons they are the most hated people in Europe, hated even more than asylum haters. Hated indeed as much as when half a million of them were murdered in the holocaust.
BBC NEWS | UK | Gypsies are 'Europe's most hated'
Looks like the UK ones are not so wealthy as the ones in Belguim Bub, certainly if life expentancy has anything to do with it
'No blacks, no dogs,no Gypsies' - Home News, UK - The Independent
The BBC reckons they are the most hated people in Europe, hated even more than asylum haters. Hated indeed as much as when half a million of them were murdered in the holocaust.
BBC NEWS | UK | Gypsies are 'Europe's most hated'
video Partis de Wingene, les Gitans s'installent à Dour - interieur, general - videos lesoir.be
Just watch this video, that was in July, 750 gypsies squatted a field in Dour without asking the farmer. Look at their cars: brand new mercedes vans, the most recent model of large peugeot vans, mini coopers, BMW jeeps and even a huge VW turan at the end of the video.
Since 80% of the people who have a job can't afford these cars, how comes that most of these people, whose job is still mysterious, can buy them?
Dr Smith said: "If we don't learn from the past, we run the risk of repeating its mistakes in the future.
"Sixty years ago, after centuries of persecution, Europe's gypsies faced extermination under the Nazis, simply because of who they were.
"Up to half a million were killed. Yet even after the Holocaust, gypsies remain perhaps the most hated minority in Europe.
"When hysteria is whipped up against a minority by politicians and the media, people get hurt and they are getting hurt, right now."
My mother said that I never should
play with the gysies in the wood
If I did she would say
You naughty little girl to disobey.
Your hair shaln't curl,
Your shoes shaln't shine,
You naughty little gypsie girl
You shaln't be mine.
As far as the vans are concerned I don't know much about such things. They just looked like vans, cars and caravans to me. Bloomin heck, these people live in these. It is all they have. They move around all the time so they need a car that works. Obviously they have some way of earning money to buy them.
It is concerning.
BBC NEWS | UK | Gypsies are 'Europe's most hated'
That I think is possibly the problem. If, and I couldn't understand your clip, but if people were acting in the way you are complaining about all the time it would not make news.
I have seen news of people complaining about them here and I have also seen one or two documentaries on them.
When I was a child I wanted to be a gypsie but my Mum told me there were no gypsies any more. Now that may have been almost true in Europe after the holocaust though it would not of Irish.
She could of course have told me this nursery rhyme.
Clearly the hatred is old and runs deep.
They decide to live differently to us. What are we going to do about it? Exterminate them again or find ways to work with the situation.
It is necessary to provide adequate sites for them to use - clearly that is a high priority if you don't want them camping in your garden. Then work needs to go on to make sure they can receive proper medical care and find possibilities for them to get an education. All these things need to be done while accepting their way of life. We need to create the foundation so that those who wish to join society will have the necessary skills to do so. Some will, some won't some will not be able to get educated and so on. The best way to find their needs is to talk to them then it will be possible to provide services in a manner in which they are likely to use them.
I saw a documentary where kids wanted to go to school but they received so much bullying they changed their mind.
.
They must be subject to the same laws as every one else
Gypsy and Traveller organisations will hold an unprecedented gathering later this month with the aim of bringing together the country's 300,000 Roma, Irish, Welsh and English Gypsies and Travellers in a national federation.
Could we discuss about gypsies/roma without having to talk about the holocaust?
I could not hear what the people were saying but it just sounds like one of those usual things. There is a hated group. A reason is found to justify this hatred.Apparently, some of them claim they "repair chairs" "deliver carpets" and "clean houses"...now tell me how many chairs you have to repair in order to buy a or a Porsche Boxter?
Indeed. When 750 people illegally squat a private property, they're deported, be they Roma, Japanese or Peruvians. And the Japanese and Peruvians won't complain on TV that they're being deported because everyone hates them.
-- Now saying that.. yes the Roma are treated like dirt in Eastern Europe and that is a separate issue, because in Western Europe they have so many possibilities and often live off the state, but refuse to improve themselves.
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