The reliability of the climate change consensus and where to go from there

[Batcat]

Yep.

They have lost their credibility, because of their outrageous claims.

And I agree. What are we not looking at now in the world and politics because we are focused on Covid-19?

A few weeks ago I saw an attempt to tie COVID-19 to Global Warming. That must have been a stretch too far as I haven’t heard it again.

I personally suspect the Chinese were enhancing (weaponizing) the virus and it escaped.

 

[istodolez]

A few weeks ago I saw an attempt to tie COVID-19 to Global Warming. That must have been a stretch too far as I haven’t heard it again.

I personally suspect the Chinese were enhancing (weaponizing) the virus and it escaped.

So tying COVID to climate change (the link between environment and ecosystem) was too much of a stretch of the imagination but the idea that COVID is a germ weapon created by the Chinese (despite the fact that virtually no virologist thinks this is rational based on the genetics of the COVID virus) is perfectly reasonable?

OK.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Wind and solar are on the rise

But they are still a small part of power, and increasing electric vehicles will easily be needing more power than the subsidized renewable energy will provides.

 

[Batcat]

So tying COVID to climate change (the link between environment and ecosystem) was too much of a stretch of the imagination but the idea that COVID is a germ weapon created by the Chinese (despite the fact that virtually no virologist thinks this is rational based on the genetics of the COVID virus) is perfectly reasonable?

OK.

You summed up my suspicions fairly well. The virus might have been enchanted for research purposes and if so was not a weapon. However I wouldn’t put it past the Chinese to weaponize such a virus.

Here’s a long but interesting article.

The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin

 

[istodolez]

You summed up my suspicions fairly well.

Too bad the SCIENCE doesn't line up with it.

Here's How Scientists Know Coronavirus Wasn't Made in a Lab

(But I suspect that science has nothing to do with your "opinion")

 

[Batcat]

Too bad the SCIENCE doesn't line up with it.

Here's How Scientists Know Coronavirus Wasn't Made in a Lab

(But I suspect that science has nothing to do with your "opinion")

The article I linked to came from Independent Science Review. If you know anything about science you would be aware that scientists often do not agree with each other.

Here’s another article for you to read if you wish. ...

What It Means When Scientists Disagree
What It Means When Scientists Disagree - Scientific American Blog Network

 

[istodolez]

The article I linked to came from Independent Science Review. If you know anything about science

If I knew anything about science! :lamo

you would be aware that scientists often do not agree with each other.

Bet I know it better than you do.

 

[Batcat]

If I knew anything about science! :lamo




Bet I know it better than you do.

Well then it seems my scientists disagree with your scientists.

Another factor is in this situation we may be mixing science and politics. That leads to junk science. If it was proven beyond any doubt that China was enhancing a virus and either accidentally released it or released it on purpose it would create significant political problems.

Notice Trump says he is not quite as fond of Xi Jinping as he was before the China virus.

Trump says 'great' bond with China's Xi changed after COVID-19
Trump says 'great' bond with China's Xi changed after COVID-19 - Reuters

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Yep.

Plug your car into an infrastructure that is mostly coal powered, instead of burning gasoline that burns clean....

Even US with a president that wants to save coal are starting get more electricity from renewables than fossil fuels.

Renewables Surpass Coal in Both the U.S. and U.K. in Historic Firsts

While EU countries got 40 percent of their electricity from renewables and 34 percent from fossil fuels in the first half of this year.

While just wind and solar power there 64 percent in Denmark, 49 percent in Ireland and 42 percent in Germany.

EU Electricity Analysis H1-2020 - Ember

That even red Texas sees the great benefits of renewable energy.

Texas is embracing renewable energy – and its wind power is soaring | World Economic Forum

 

[istodolez]

Well then it seems my scientists disagree with your scientists.

Hmmm, I'm not particularly convinced by the Independentsciencenews story. A great deal of it seems to be circumstantial in nature mainly around the following points:

1. The scientists are not 100% certain of every step in the zoonotic transfer
2. Some of the early cases can't be directly linked to the wet market in Wuhan
3. There's a coronavirus lab in Wuhan! <--this appears to be the biggest link for them.

The last part is essentially the definition of circumstantial evidence.

It's clear that the WIV lab cannot be definitively proven to NOT be the source but it's really not that helpful to propose that it is the source because it exists.

I'm not going to say 100% that a release from WIV wasn't the source, but by the same token I am fascinated by your original claim that climate change linkage "was a stretch too far", but you'll gladly go with this.

If it was proven beyond any doubt that China was enhancing a virus and either accidentally released it or released it on purpose it would create significant political problems.

IF. Let's always keep that in mind. IF.

Notice Trump says he is not quite as fond of Xi Jinping as he was before the China virus.

Trump is a brain-damaged moron. Trump will say or do literally ANYTHING that serves his needs at the direct moment. I doubt very highly Trump could find China on a map with a Chinese Geography Teacher helping him.

Let's leave the bigot-moron-in-chief out of the discussion.

 

[cabse5]

One thing that might help convince the doubters is if the global warming advocates stopped making predictions that simply don’t come true.

For example 20 years from now when we are all still here and there still are blizzards in Ohio people will remember AOC’s prediction that we only had 12 years to save the planet.

It would also help if China and India were forced to reduce their pollution. We can reduce our level to zero and the level of CO2 in the atmosphere will still be increasing. Of course there is little chance if that ever happening. China would engineer and “accidentally” release another virus before they would curb their use of fossil fuel.

What will curb global warming is the development of fusion power plants.

Fusion Energy Is Coming, and Maybe Sooner Than You Think
Fusion Energy Is Coming, and Maybe Sooner Than You Think

SIAP. Even though fusion power has zero carbon emissions, fusion power plants are nuclear power plants. Environmentalists aren't any more happy with nuclear fuel than fossil fuel because of the threat to the ecology.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Even US with a president that wants to save coal are starting get more electricity from renewables than fossil fuels.

Renewables Surpass Coal in Both the U.S. and U.K. in Historic Firsts

While EU countries got 40 percent of their electricity from renewables and 34 percent from fossil fuels in the first half of this year.

While just wind and solar power there 64 percent in Denmark, 49 percent in Ireland and 42 percent in Germany.

EU Electricity Analysis H1-2020 - Ember

That even red Texas sees the great benefits of renewable energy.

Texas is embracing renewable energy – and its wind power is soaring | World Economic Forum

You night want to look at what the EIA is calling Renewable. Coal is ~24%, nuclear ~19%, wind and solar only about 6%.

 

[Batcat]

SIAP. Even though fusion power has zero carbon emissions, fusion power plants are nuclear power plants. Environmentalists aren't any more happy with nuclear fuel than fossil fuel because of the threat to the ecology.

True but a fusion power plant is FAR less dangerous than the nuclear power plants we use today. No meltdown.

ADVANTAGES OF FUSION
Advantages of fusion

 

[Batcat]

Hmmm, I'm not particularly convinced by the Independentsciencenews story. A great deal of it seems to be circumstantial in nature mainly around the following points:

1. The scientists are not 100% certain of every step in the zoonotic transfer
2. Some of the early cases can't be directly linked to the wet market in Wuhan
3. There's a coronavirus lab in Wuhan! <--this appears to be the biggest link for them.

The last part is essentially the definition of circumstantial evidence.

It's clear that the WIV lab cannot be definitively proven to NOT be the source but it's really not that helpful to propose that it is the source because it exists.

I'm not going to say 100% that a release from WIV wasn't the source, but by the same token I am fascinated by your original claim that climate change linkage "was a stretch too far", but you'll gladly go with this.




IF. Let's always keep that in mind. IF.



Trump is a brain-damaged moron. Trump will say or do literally ANYTHING that serves his needs at the direct moment. I doubt very highly Trump could find China on a map with a Chinese Geography Teacher helping him.

Let's leave the bigot-moron-in-chief out of the discussion.

Your last statement reveals you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome. “ I doubt very highly Trump could find China on a map with a Chinese Geography Teacher helping him.” Since Trump suspects the virus came from a Chinese lab you automatically disagree. Trump can never be right about anything.

If Trump is so stupid how did he manage to defeat Hillary (the most qualified candidate to ever run for the president) according to Obama.)

 

[istodolez]

Your last statement reveals you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

No it reveals I made it past high school and got a college education.

“ I doubt very highly Trump could find China on a map with a Chinese Geography Teacher helping him.” Since Trump suspects the virus came from a Chinese lab you automatically disagree. Trump can never be right about anything.

Are you one of those Trump Supporters who fantasizes that he's capable of 3Dimensional Chess? LOL.

If Trump is so stupid how did he manage to defeat Hillary (the most qualified candidate to ever run for the president) according to Obama.)

OMG! Seriously? Trump's campaign team knew how to work the electoral rich areas. Hillary's campaign did, indeed, mess up, but c'mon, you can't honestly believe that Trump had a CLUE how the electoral college works, can you?

The same man who thinks Article II of the Constitution gives him unlimited powers? The same guy who decided that he could explain uranium thusly:

Trump Explains Uranium - YouTube

General Mattis, after working with Trump, suggested Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader.”

Trump actually suggested doctors look into injecting bleach as a means of treating COVID.

Remember, Trump had someone else take his SAT's to get into Wharton! There's a reason for that.

 

[Lord of Planar]

True but a fusion power plant is FAR less dangerous than the nuclear power plants we use today. No meltdown.

ADVANTAGES OF FUSION
Advantages of fusion

We don't know that.

What if the quarks bow up?

 

[Lord of Planar]

No it reveals I made it past high school and got a college education.



Are you one of those Trump Supporters who fantasizes that he's capable of 3Dimensional Chess? LOL.



OMG! Seriously? Trump's campaign team knew how to work the electoral rich areas. Hillary's campaign did, indeed, mess up, but c'mon, you can't honestly believe that Trump had a CLUE how the electoral college works, can you?

The same man who thinks Article II of the Constitution gives him unlimited powers? The same guy who decided that he could explain uranium thusly:

Trump Explains Uranium - YouTube

General Mattis, after working with Trump, suggested Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader.”

Trump actually suggested doctors look into injecting bleach as a means of treating COVID.

Remember, Trump had someone else take his SAT's to get into Wharton! There's a reason for that.

Unproven allegations.

 

[istodolez]

Unproven allegations.

The video was literally a video of Trump speaking.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The video was literally a video of Trump speaking.

Where does he say:

Trump actually suggested doctors look into injecting bleach as a means of treating COVID.

Remember, Trump had someone else take his SAT's to get into Wharton! There's a reason for that.

 

[istodolez]

Where does he say:

Trump actually suggested doctors look into injecting bleach as a means of treating COVID.

Oh that wasn't in that video. But your blanket statement of unproven allegations was wrong.

The bleach thing was in a press conference. You may not watch the news but I did. I watched it in real time.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Oh that wasn't in that video. But your blanket statement of unproven allegations was wrong.

The bleach thing was in a press conference. You may not watch the news but I did. I watched it in real time.

Do you mean the one where he was asking a question to medical experts if that could be a possibility?

Did he specify bleach? I recall him saying disinfectant. There are several types of disinfectants. Bleach is more specific.

Again, words have meaning.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Is this a clip from that press conference?



Here is the entire press conference:

President Trump with Coronavirus Task Force Briefing | C-SPAN.org

Please note that starting at 25:21, what is discussed. The president is then asking questions starting at 27:02, and that is where the disinfectant lie the media reports is misconstrued from.

You progressives are really fooled easily by the fake media.

 

[Batcat]

No it reveals I made it past high school and got a college education.



Are you one of those Trump Supporters who fantasizes that he's capable of 3Dimensional Chess? LOL.



OMG! Seriously? Trump's campaign team knew how to work the electoral rich areas. Hillary's campaign did, indeed, mess up, but c'mon, you can't honestly believe that Trump had a CLUE how the electoral college works, can you?

The same man who thinks Article II of the Constitution gives him unlimited powers? The same guy who decided that he could explain uranium thusly:

Trump Explains Uranium - YouTube

General Mattis, after working with Trump, suggested Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader.”

Trump actually suggested doctors look into injecting bleach as a means of treating COVID.

Remember, Trump had someone else take his SAT's to get into Wharton! There's a reason for that.

You say Trump had someone else take his SATs like it is a proven fact.

The Media Is Ignoring a Huge Hole in the 'Trump Cheated on His SATs' Allegation
BY MATT MARGOLIS JUL 24, 2020 11:45 AM EST

Since the release of Mary Trump’s tell-all “memoir,” a whole slew of allegations has been repeated unquestionably by the media and on social media. One such allegation is that Trump paid a proxy to take the SAT exam for him, helping him earn admission into the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton Business School.

***snip***

But, according to Raw Story, the Joe Shapiro who allegedly took Trump’s SATs for him, was, in fact, the Joe Shapiro who died 21 years ago, and whom Trump didn’t meet until after he started at UPenn. Other outlets have similarly profiled the late Joe Shapiro as the subject of Mary Trump’s allegation. It’s been over two weeks since Joe Shapiro’s widow debunked Mary Trump’s most explosive claim, yet no other Joe Shapiro has come forward nor has another otherwise been identified.

Mary Trump nevertheless insists her claim is true, even though she can’t prove it. Mary herself doesn’t even know if the “real” Joe Shapiro is even alive.

Despite the obvious falsity of this allegation, many still repeat it as if it were true. For the media, when it comes to Trump, or frankly, any Republican, it’s the seriousness of the charge that matters above anything else, not the veracity, that merits wall-to-wall coverage.

If journalism today had standards, this allegation would have never gotten the attention it did because it fell apart so quickly. If publishing had any standards, Mary’s book would have never seen the light of day.
The Media Is Ignoring a Huge Hole in the 'Trump Cheated on His SATs' Allegation

 

[istodolez]

Do you mean the one where he was asking a question to medical experts if that could be a possibility?

Yeah, there's a point at which one displays ignorance on a level of "toddler trying to sound like a big boy at the dinner party" and that was one of many Trump Toddler Moments.

Did he specify bleach? I recall him saying disinfectant.

You're right. ALong with getting "light inside the body". Doesn't change it much. Either way you know he's a moron. Honestly, you must admit, no matter how much you like him that he really isn't technically sharp on much of anything.

I don't understand ANYONE's defense of Trump but most of the time the defenses make the defender look bad. How one can twist and alter reality to somehow come to the conclusion that Trump is good at what he's doing or that he's done much of anything of lasting good as president is truly amazing. How one can defend his naked, non-stop bigotry and stupidity and general sociopathy is beyond me.

It's like watching someone who can't bear the fact that they might be in error on something simply assuming that the majority of the earth is wrong and that they are really the ones in the right. Even if it requires some overarching cabal of people coordinating across the globe and across time to hide the truth.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Yeah, there's a point at which one displays ignorance on a level of "toddler trying to sound like a big boy at the dinner party" and that was one of many Trump Toddler Moments.



You're right. ALong with getting "light inside the body". Doesn't change it much. Either way you know he's a moron. Honestly, you must admit, no matter how much you like him that he really isn't technically sharp on much of anything.

I don't understand ANYONE's defense of Trump but most of the time the defenses make the defender look bad. How one can twist and alter reality to somehow come to the conclusion that Trump is good at what he's doing or that he's done much of anything of lasting good as president is truly amazing. How one can defend his naked, non-stop bigotry and stupidity and general sociopathy is beyond me.

It's like watching someone who can't bear the fact that they might be in error on something simply assuming that the majority of the earth is wrong and that they are really the ones in the right. Even if it requires some overarching cabal of people coordinating across the globe and across time to hide the truth.

For someone who claims to be a scientist, you sure get a lot of things wrong.