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The real truth about Social Security........

Navy Pride

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Many years ago in Seattle, two wonderful neighbors, Elliott and Patty Roosevelt came to my home to swim on a regular basis. They were a great couple full of laughter and stories that today I continue to marvel at. Both are now deceased, but their stories remain. During the years of our friendship we had many, many discussions about his parents (President Franklin D. and Eleanor Roosevelt) and how his father and mother never intended for the Social Security and Welfare programs to turn out the way they are today. Elliott used to say that if his mother returned to earth and saw what the politicians had done to their programs she would have burned all of them in hell.

Here is a story I received today regarding the Social Security Program and I immediately thought of Elliott's comments. Hope you will read this and think about it. Margaret

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to "put away," you may be interested in the following:

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent "Trust" fund and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically controlled House and Senate.

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the "tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the U.S.

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

AND MY FAVORITE:

A: That's right! Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!

Then, after doing all this lying and thieving and violation of the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

And the worst part about it is, uninformed citizens believe it!
 

Comrade Brian

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This is a forum to discuss economics, not for a petty-partisan feud.
 

Iriemon

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I agree SS could use reform. I agree with the Bush Administration that it doesn't make sense to tie the benefit with the growth of wages as opposed to the growth of inflation. SS should provide a minimum benefit just sufficient to maintain basic sustanence for those who have no other form of retirement income. It makes no sense to pay a dole to Warren Buffet; the benefit should be means tested and gradually decreased for those who have ample assets or other income.

SS IMO should be social pension insurance designed to provide benefits to those too elderly to work but without sufficient retirement assets to generate at least an above poverty level of income. That would be a more affordable program that would still incentive retirment savings (unless living your retirement at the poverty line is your satsifactory), while addressing the problem SS was created for -- provide some level of income to those too old to work but without sufficient assets or income.

Privatizing social security doesn't solve the problem of provding basic sustenance to the elderly. What is the answer for those who invest poorly or simply outlive their savings account? By giving the money to family member for those who die young and have a balance in their account, in increases the cost of the program overall, but money will need to come from other sources.
 

Navy Pride

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Comrade Brian said:
This is a forum to discuss economics, not for a petty-partisan feud.

Who died and made you boss? There are other threads in this forum about SS...........Get a clue.......
 

128shot

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Navy Pride said:
Who died and made you boss? There are other threads in this forum about SS...........Get a clue.......


He's not "the boss" but the fact you blame everything on the democratic party is not needed IMO.


However, it still a good post.
 

Navy Pride

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128shot said:
He's not "the boss" but the fact you blame everything on the democratic party is not needed IMO.


However, it still a good post.

My friend I did not make those facts up.......
 

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Navy Pride said:
My friend I did not make those facts up.......


Twisting words now?



I said it was a good post, and that the blatant attack on the democratic party was worthless. However there was substance.
 

Navy Pride

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128shot said:
Twisting words now?



I said it was a good post, and that the blatant attack on the democratic party was worthless. However there was substance.

You are playing both sides of the debate aren't you?

The facts speak for theirselves...........
 

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Navy Pride said:
You are playing both sides of the debate aren't you?

The facts speak for theirselves...........


I'm hardly a one party man.
 

Comrade Brian

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Navy Pride said:
Who died and made you boss? There are other threads in this forum about SS...........Get a clue.......

No one made me "the Boss", but this forum is about economics, not "democrats did this, republicans will do this" type of thing, its very tiresome what you do.
 

Iriemon

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Comrade Brian said:
No one made me "the Boss", but this forum is about economics, not "democrats did this, republicans will do this" type of thing, its very tiresome what you do.

What I want to know is, if all these terrible SS problems are the result of the Democrats, why haven't the Republicans fixed them? They have controlled Congress since 1994, and the WH, House and Senate since 2000.
 

Ivan The Terrible

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Iriemon,


What I want to know is, if all these terrible SS problems are the result of the Democrats, why haven't the Republicans fixed them? They have controlled Congress since 1994, and the WH, House and Senate since 2000.

Well they have been trying. But the people are so hooked to government hand outs that to completely fix it would be down right imposable.
 

Navy Pride

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Comrade Brian said:
No one made me "the Boss", but this forum is about economics, not "democrats did this, republicans will do this" type of thing, its very tiresome what you do.

Since as usual you can't rebutt the truth and facts of the article you attack me........But what else is new...........Sad........
 

Navy Pride

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Iriemon said:
What I want to know is, if all these terrible SS problems are the result of the Democrats, why haven't the Republicans fixed them? They have controlled Congress since 1994, and the WH, House and Senate since 2000.

I don't know what planet you live on but the Republicans have tried to fix SS but have been blocked by the dems using their obstructionist filibuster........
 

Iriemon

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Navy Pride said:
I don't know what planet you live on but the Republicans have tried to fix SS but have been blocked by the dems using their obstructionist filibuster........

You mean, the Republicans, who control a majority in the House and Senate and the White House didn't pass laws to fix it because the minority Democrats opposed their efforts?

Ooooo! Those scary Democrats!

How many Republicans supported the Democrats when they had the guts to pass a tax increase in 1993?
 

Iriemon

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Ivan The Terrible said:
Iriemon,

Well they have been trying. But the people are so hooked to government hand outs that to completely fix it would be down right imposable.

You mean, the Republicans didn't fix the SS problem because it would be unpopular to do so? I think you are on the right tack here. I reckon that goes a long way to explain why the Govt is borrowing $600 billion more debt each year as well.

It would take real political courage to do something like that. Something that has been pretty absent in DC lately.
 

Navy Pride

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Iriemon said:
You mean, the Republicans, who control a majority in the House and Senate and the White House didn't pass laws to fix it because the minority Democrats opposed their efforts?

Ooooo! Those scary Democrats!

How many Republicans supported the Democrats when they had the guts to pass a tax increase in 1993?

Did you even follow the battle for SS in the Senate in 2004? Do you know what the filibuster is? Never mind it is obvious you don't.....
 

Iriemon

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Navy Pride said:
Did you even follow the battle for SS in the Senate in 2004? Do you know what the filibuster is? Never mind it is obvious you don't.....

My understanding of a filibuster is that various members continue debate, and it applies only in certain procedural situations in the Senate. But I'm not sure, so explain it to us. Do the filibuster rules apply to both the House and the Senate? Can it prevent legislation from passing? How could it be used if the Repulbican majority wanted to pass laws gutting social security? Can it be applied to any legislation or just certain procedural situations (like Supreme Court nominations)? Why wasn't it used, for example, in the recent law passed by the Republicans increasing the debt ceiling to $9 trillion?

Thanks.
 

Navy Pride

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Iriemon said:
My understanding of a filibuster is that various members continue debate, and it applies only in certain procedural situations in the Senate. But I'm not sure, so explain it to us. Do the filibuster rules apply to both the House and the Senate? Can it prevent legislation from passing? How could it be used if the Repulbican majority wanted to pass laws gutting social security? Can it be applied to any legislation or just certain procedural situations (like Supreme Court nominations)? Why wasn't it used, for example, in the recent law passed by the Republicans increasing the debt ceiling to $9 trillion?

Thanks.

It is obvious you did not keep upo with the debate on SS so there is no sense in debating with you on the issue, besides this thread is about how democrats have ruined SS....

Try and stay on topic...........Thanks
 

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Navy Pride said:
It is obvious you did not keep upo with the debate on SS so there is no sense in debating with you on the issue, besides this thread is about how democrats have ruined SS....

Try and stay on topic...........Thanks

First you criticize me for not having your great knowledge about filibusters, then you can't tell us how it works. Thanks for the enlightenment. I see nothing has changed with your debating tactics.

I must have missed it 2004 when the Dems defeated the Republicans efforts to gut SS with the filibuster. From what I saw, it appeared to me that most folks in this country wanted nothing to do with Bush's inane privatization proposal, and rather than having the guts to do something unpopular, the Repandercans cut-n-ran.
 

Navy Pride

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Iriemon said:
First you criticize me for not having your great knowledge about filibusters, then you can't tell us how it works. Thanks for the enlightenment. I see nothing has changed with your debating tactics.

I must have missed it 2004 when the Dems defeated the Republicans efforts to gut SS with the filibuster. From what I saw, it appeared to me that most folks in this country wanted nothing to do with Bush's inane privatization proposal, and rather than having the guts to do something unpopular, the Repandercans cut-n-ran.


I have a flash for you..SS is already in deep trouble..........Even your boy Clinton said that in 1998 as did many other dems..............

The republicans offered a plan to fix it without raising taxes.......That is the only way that dems know to solve a problem..Pour more money into a black hole.......

Private SS accounts are the way to go.......If I was a young person I would be jumping all over that.........Its to bad that young people are not informed enough and drink the liberal koolaid.........

Now can we please get back on topic? Thanks.........
 

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Navy Pride said:
I have a flash for you..SS is already in deep trouble..........Even your boy Clinton said that in 1998 as did many other dems..............

The republicans offered a plan to fix it without raising taxes.......That is the only way that dems know to solve a problem..Pour more money into a black hole.......

Private SS accounts are the way to go.......If I was a young person I would be jumping all over that.........Its to bad that young people are not informed enough and drink the liberal koolaid.........

Now can we please get back on topic? Thanks.........

I agree the SS program has problems, thanks to the fact that over $2 trillion has been stolen from the SS trust fund to finance the Republican deficits.
 

Navy Pride

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Iriemon said:
I agree the SS program has problems, thanks to the fact that over $2 trillion has been stolen from the SS trust fund to finance the Republican deficits.

If you were honest you would admit that both parties have stolen from the SS fund........
 

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Navy Pride said:
If you were honest you would admit that both parties have stolen from the SS fund........

I didn't contend otherwise.

But the truth is that the concept of building up a SS trust fund was borne with the SS Act of 1983. The politicians (with amazing foresight) foresaw the problems with SS with the retirement of the boomers. So SS taxes were increased so that SS revenues would be greater than what was necessary to pay SS expenses. The surplus was supposed to go into a SS trust fund. The idea was that the trust fund would have a few trillion dollars in it by the time the boomers started retiring en masse, enough to pay their benefits without a heavy tax increase on future taxpayers.

The SS excess tax payments created by this Act are reported by the CBO, the figures reproduced here:

1985 9.4
1986 16.7
1987 19.6
1988 38.8
1989 52.4
1990 58.2
1991 53.5
1992 50.7
1993 46.8
1994 56.8
1995 60.4
1996 66.4
1997 81.3
1998 99.4
1999 124.7
2000 151.8
2001 163.0
2002 159.0
2003 155.6
2004 151.1
2005 173.5

The amount of extra SS taxes paid over the last 20 years to date exceeds $1.8 trillion; well over $2 trillion if you add in interest.

But, as the president pointed out, there are no funds in the SS trust fund. Instead there is Govt debt, IOUs, just like the president said. The Government took all the money that was supposed to be saved in the trust fund, and put worthless IOUs there instead. Why are they worthless? Because the Govt will have to pay the SS benefits anyway. Having a debt to itself doesn't help pay these expenses.

Where did all the money go? Since 1981, the Govt has ran deficits totalling 7.2 trillion -- that is, it has spent $7.2 trillion than it has taken in through taxes. It has had to borrow this money. Thanks to the earlier law passed by Johnson (I'll take your word on it), the Govt has the authority to take the money that was supposed to go into the SS trust fund, and "borrow" it, and use the extra SS tax payments for general spending. Because of fiscal irresponsibility over most of the past 25 years, the money that was supposed to be building up in a SS trust as instead been used to finance the Republican deficits.

Is it fair to call them the Republican deficits? Of the $7.2 trillion borrowed since 1981, it is true that $1.6 trillion was borrowed during the Clinton administration. But Clinton inherited a $320 billion deficit from Bush 1, and of the last 4 presidents, only his administration successfully reversed the tide of red ink and and balanced the budget, even paying down the debt $100 billion in CY2000. Most of the money borrowed during his administration was during the first few years, as the huge deficit budget he inherited from Bush1 was worked down.

Since Bush2 took office in 2001, the surplus vanished, and another $2.5 trillion in debt has been added.

It's fair to call them the Republican deficits and debt in my book.
 
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