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The Real Reason WHY Obama Is Hated So Much by The Right

I'll speak for myself on this one: I don't hate "him", I hate that he's a big government Marxist, hell bent on "transforming" the greatest nation ever, into something European in philosophical nature. Man's a Marxist, and I don't care how loud and long the left says he's not. Proof is in the pudding, and now America has 4 years of an Obama Presidency to judge.

He lies to women. He lies to minorities. And he uses the politics of fear to garner votes. For instance, he says Romney will take away women's birth control. Lie. BY LAW, Romney cant do that. He can't overturn Roe v. Wade either. Only Congress can do that. He can't ban contraception either. The Supreme Court decided that 50 years ago. But Obama lies to gin up fear among those people. It's a disgrace, and he'll pay for it.

America doesn't wan't to go in the direction of larger debt, bigger and more intrusive government, increased wellfare states, and more spending. America doesn't want to go in the direction of "shared prosperity", which is code for redistribution of wealth. We simply wan't to be left alone to make decisions for our selves. But there is a large chunk of America THAT DOES want things given to them. Those people can keep Obama. Give me liberty, give me tax breaks, give me more of my own earned money. Give me my own freedom to choose whether or not I carry insurance. Give ME THE CHOICE. I don't need a President making decisions for me and mine.

The rest of you can have him.....but have him back in Chicago, where he can gin up as much fear among people as he wants. The country doesn't need that kind of devisive rhetoric anymore. We need a leader. We need an Executive. So long manchild.....

I want you exemplifies his "lies" to women and minorities better than your exaggeration. Actually, by law, Romney can nominate Supreme Court justices who have extremely conservative interpretive perspectives on the Constitution to replace perhaps two with more liberal interpretive perspectives, and they might well overturn Roe v Wade if Congress approves them. If Congress were to go red (= Republican), it could present him with a personhood or human life bill like that voted on in Mississippi last year, and he said he would sign such a bill. The Mississippi bill would have made abortion illegal even in a case of rape or major health threat to the woman, and it would have made it possible to conservatives to outlaw some very popular forms of hormonal birth control. If it had that potential in Mississippi, Ryan's human life bill would have that potential at the federal level. Conservative anti-choicers have been the ones ginning up fear on this issue, that's a disgrace, and they will pay for it.

Various polls (e.g., Updated Tax Polls | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games, Occupy D.C.? Most Back Protests, Surtax - NationalJournal.com, Millionaires Support Warren Buffett) show that both ordinary people and millionaires support higher taxes on the rich and/or a surtax on millionaires/billionaires, and some polls reach a high of 75% support. What Americans want is exactly what the Republicans deprived them of from the time of Reagan, when the rich and upper middle class started to get much richer and the lower middle class and working poor much poorer by the same amount, after which CEO and upper management salaries skyrocketed till an average CEO's annual salary reached over 450 times the average blue collar worker's annual wages in the latter 1990s. They want jobs with equitable pay relative to the cost of living and the pay of higher positions. And if business refuses to lower outrageously high salaries and increase outrageously low wages to show that equity, they want the government to punish outrageously high pay. Moreover, it would be wonderful for everyone to be able to choose whether or not to have insurance - the problem is that outrageous health care costs and health insurance premiums have made it impossible for millions of people to afford it. They want choice just as you do, and we can't fix it without bringing down health care costs and premiums because the market does not work on the health care industry.

Obama is a wonderful leader and a good executive. The only people who can't see that are Republicans and people who are sort of would-be Republicans.
 
I want you exemplifies his "lies" to women and minorities better than your exaggeration. Actually, by law, Romney can nominate Supreme Court justices who have extremely conservative interpretive perspectives on the Constitution to replace perhaps two with more liberal interpretive perspectives, and they might well overturn Roe v Wade if Congress approves them. If Congress were to go red (= Republican), it could present him with a personhood or human life bill like that voted on in Mississippi last year, and he said he would sign such a bill. The Mississippi bill would have made abortion illegal even in a case of rape or major health threat to the woman, and it would have made it possible to conservatives to outlaw some very popular forms of hormonal birth control. If it had that potential in Mississippi, Ryan's human life bill would have that potential at the federal level. Conservative anti-choicers have been the ones ginning up fear on this issue, that's a disgrace, and they will pay for it.

Various polls (e.g., Updated Tax Polls | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games, Occupy D.C.? Most Back Protests, Surtax - NationalJournal.com, Millionaires Support Warren Buffett) show that both ordinary people and millionaires support higher taxes on the rich and/or a surtax on millionaires/billionaires, and some polls reach a high of 75% support. What Americans want is exactly what the Republicans deprived them of from the time of Reagan, when the rich and upper middle class started to get much richer and the lower middle class and working poor much poorer by the same amount, after which CEO and upper management salaries skyrocketed till an average CEO's annual salary reached over 450 times the average blue collar worker's annual wages in the latter 1990s. They want jobs with equitable pay relative to the cost of living and the pay of higher positions. And if business refuses to lower outrageously high salaries and increase outrageously low wages to show that equity, they want the government to punish outrageously high pay. Moreover, it would be wonderful for everyone to be able to choose whether or not to have insurance - the problem is that outrageous health care costs and health insurance premiums have made it impossible for millions of people to afford it. They want choice just as you do, and we can't fix it without bringing down health care costs and premiums because the market does not work on the health care industry.

Obama is a wonderful leader and a good executive. The only people who can't see that are Republicans and people who are sort of would-be Republicans.

Yawn....now let me smash your little argument real quick.

You liberals whine about the salaries of CEO's. lol.....I'm sorry, but you're being a moron. CEO's salaries are paid for WITH PRIVATELY EARNED MONEY! In other words, YOU DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE SALARY OF A CEO, UNLESS YOU'RE DIRECTLY INVESTED IN HIS COMPANY! It's private sector money man!

On the other hand, it's ironic that you failed to mention that you freakin liberals are always increasing the salaries of PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS, to the point, that for the first time in American history, a public sector worker earns more money than a private sector worker! Now do the Math Doogie. If it takes private sector tax payers to fund salaries of public sector workers, how long can the public worker earn more than the actual people paying the taxes?????

Obama isn't an executive, the dude can't even manage a media crisis, much less a financial one. HIs answer for EVERYTHING is the same; more government, more spending.

While majority of Americans support a "rich tax", they also support something else, and if you would dive a little deeper, you'de find it. The vast majority of Americans also say that the government should take NO MORE than 35% of ANY PERSON'S income. Do the math again my friend.....so while they believe the rich should pay more, which by the way, THEY DO, they also believe that anything above a 35% tax is unacceptable. There you have it. Glad you could learn something this evening.
 
Where ya at Boo Radley???? I'm waiting to hear your critiques of Obama's books.....

I'm like the Addicus Finch of your story.....I'm the smart one who's read things. But I'm most interested to hear your thoughts on Obama's books, particularly "Dreams From My Father".

Any day now......
 
What economic results has he generated that warrant another four years? You don't think adding 5.6 trillion to the debt, having 22.7 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, 2% economic results, 47 million Americans on Food stamps warrants firing Obama?

I blame most of the debt increase on how disastrous the results were of Bush wasting money on the Iraq war and deciding to do nation-building there and in Afghanistan, and on Bush not paying attention to Clinton as the latter left office, when Clinton wanted to offer Bush some advice on certain issues. One of those issues would have been keeping an eye on the whole bank-mortgage thing. Bush either did not keep an eye on the latter problem or, more likely, just did nothing, as this problem grew over several years. I admit I was a Hillary supporter because I thought she would get us out of Iraq and probably out of Afghanistan faster.

Unlike you, I don't blame Obama for Obamacare, because what he really wanted, as did most Democrats, was a mandate on health insurance with an option for low-cost, single payer national health insurance, as in Japan, which would compete with the policies of private insurance companies to bring down premiums, and serious reform of the health care industry and its disastrously high price structure, which had never responded to market forces.

Obama wanted, as I did, carrot-and-stick tax policy that would reward businesses for growth of decent-paying job creation in the US and punish them for closing operations here and opening them abroad in unwarranted industries and for outsourcing and offshoring US jobs (Romney actually outsourced to other countries Massachusetts jobs while he was governor there!). The reason so many Americans are on food stamps is because so many people have full-time employment at such low wages that they are actually eligible for them, and this is not Obama's fault - it is the fault of the pay structures at US companies and corporations who should be punished for so warping our economy.

And I will never vote for any candidate for any elective office in the US who is not pro-choice on the issue of continuing or terminating a pregnancy, not for city council, local judge, mayor, not even state comptroller. Why would I vote for one for president? If the Republicans do not just abandon the anti-abortion stance and all the far right-wing idiots who hold it, their party will self-destruct.
 
Like I said, you can say it as loud and as often as you want. Proof is in his books, it's in his speeches, it's in his language, it's in his response to Joe the Plumber, it's in his comments about "shared proserity", it's in his philosophy of "collective salvation", it's in his life's associations with prominant and self-proclaimed Marxists, it's in his upbringing, it's in his influential college professors, it's in his choosing of a Marxist as the man who married him to his wife and who he CHOSE as a spiritual mentor, it's in his comments about America being "mean", "dismissive", and "arrogant", it's in his historical connection to teaching the philosophy of Saul Alinsky in colleges.

You aren't talking to a person with no experience in learning about Obama. I've read his books. I've read his speeches. I've studied his church of 25 years. I've studied Saul Alinsky, and read his books. I've read Frank Marshall Davis. I've read James Cone, who inspired Black Liberation Theology. I've read the philosophy behind "collective salvation", which Obama espouses.

Only weapon you have against me is a very weak one. You simply call me crazy and dismiss the truth. You dismiss the man's entire life. You dismiss his childhood, his upbringing, his CHOSEN mentors, his CHOSEN spiritual mentor and baptizer of him and his children, his books, his speeches, what he means by "fundamentally transforming America". All of it. Jusy bury that head.....

You are mistaking Democrats for Marxian socialists - it's as if the McCarthy movement had been reborn!
 
Like I said before, it's impossible to have a philosophical discussion with liberals these days. They've stopped reading for one reason. They debate purely by their own opinions, as if everyone else is supposed to just bow down and kiss their feet because they uttered words out of their mouths. The regurgitation of talking points gets old. For once, I would like to talk to a liberal that's AT LEAST read Obama's books. Any good debate starts with BOTH PARTIES being somewhat versed on the subject matter. A real life, literal debate is OVER if one opponent proves that the other opponent hasn't done his homework.

So, why do liberals who come here to debate, who haven't bothered to even read Obama's own books, not to mention any others important to political debate, think they can face anyone here knowing they haven't read crap? What is that person going to bring to a debate other than opinion and rhetoric? Amazes me really.....

Liberals: READ OBAMA'S BOOKS!

The ones I have found over the years who have read, are the liberals that agree with him wholeheartedly. They too are "redistributionist", "big government/big entitlement", Marxists. They even admit it most times.

My contention is that millions of Americans don't know "who" Obama is. But they could know, if they would but read him, study him, and put his ENTIRE LIFE into context of his politics. That's when Obama starts to make sense to me. His entire life, he's been raised, mentored, advised, taught, baptized, and even married by Marxists. But liberals here will tell you that his ENTIRE LIFE is coincidental, and just a big conspiracy when Conservatives point it out. That is nothing more than sheer denial.
 
What I notice about Obama supporters is that they seem to care about what others think about this country but never about how you as an individual are viewed by others. Why is having this country liked so important but you not personally liked not so important?

Don't know about you but seems you always want to make things personal. I grew up lower class, worked hard, and succeeded. Therein lies your problem as apparently you need someone else to make things easier for you. I am sure the feeling is mutual as I stand by my statement about the quality of the Obama voter.

Well, god bless you for being so wonderful.:roll:

Because I am a rebel with a cause.
 
What I notice about Obama supporters, is that they really don't know much about the guy! I'm serious! Ask a liberal if they've ever read any one of Obama's two books. Most of them haven't.

Ask them if they've read Saul Alinsky. Most of them haven't. And I mean the vast majority haven't.

It's amazing to me, that a person, who hasn't even bothered to read Obama's own books, think they somehow have the intellectual authority to tell others that "Obama's not a Marxist". Really? Go read "Dreams From My Father", and get back to me on the topic of "collective salvation" then. Tell me THAT'S not a Marxist principle. Go read all the nice and warm things he's written about SELF PROCLAIMED Marxists, then come back and tell me we're just making it all up.

Please....Obama supporters are vastly ignorant of his writings, his speeches, his upbringing, his CHOSEN associations throughout his ENTIRE LIFE. Not just his college years, but HIS ENTIRE LIFE! Coincidental? HA! What a coincidence that he has CHOSEN that many Marxists to mentor him, advise him, school him, hire him, baptize him, marry him, and work with him for so many years. He's like one giant Marxist Magnet I suppose......no no no....he seeks them out because he's like-minded.

collective salvation: the ultimate socialist group hug :D
 
You are mistaking Democrats for Marxian socialists - it's as if the McCarthy movement had been reborn!

lol....oh am I? Thanks professor.

Perhaps you can learn a little something about the "Modern Liberal" movement while you're at it. Gone are the days of textbook "Democrats" my friend. Obama is nothing like Jack Kennedy or LBJ, or even Bill Clinton for that matter.

Just a real simple test here, to see if we can move along in this conversation. Deal?

Tell me which book is more relevant to a political discussion on Obama.....Dreams From My Father? OR The Audacity of Hope? If you've read them, you will know this answer. Tell me which one, and why, and let's move forward in the discussion, because I'm confident, that if you've read them, there are things I can point out to you that will at the very least make you question what I'm saying.
 
More than 50 percent of Democrats think 9/11 was an inside job.

A full 22.6% of Democrats said it was "very likely." Another 28.2% called it "somewhat likely."

That is: More than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks.


More than half of Democrats believed Bush knew - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

Speaking of ignorance....

Evidence was made public on CNN that several months before the attack, the Bush administration had intelligence that related to such an attack, though not its date. Any intelligent person would have known that Al Qaeda was going to attack the WTC with planes next - it was the obvious next step for people whose bomb in the basement was found before it could go off, and I myself predicted that would happen back in the 1990s. The timing would be related somehow to Bush, Sr., because bin Laden hated him for the Gulf War, so when Bush ran for office, I predicted it would occur in his term. And I'm not even a Mid-East area specialist. Anyone would have known, and the fact that the intelligence coming to the WH included information related to such an attack beforehand is far from a surprise. Bush did know. He just didn't necessarily know the date and paid no attention to the need for being alert.
 
Healthcare is a personal responsibility and Obamacare does nothing to assure quality or quantity, SS and Medicare are entitlement programs that has been spent for decades on programs other than Medicare and SS. As for being liked around the world, do you really think radical Islam is ever going to like us? I prefer being respected, not liked.

Watching CNN today, I learned that about 75% of the people in various European countries would vote for Obama if they were American citizens, and I already know that the Japanese very much like Obama and so do the Canadians. I'd say that is good company to be in - very developed, well educated populations.
 
obama is hated because he didnt have a backbone and push through policies his democratic base support. we wanted universal healthcare, we got a privatised money-glut for the 1% in big pharma/big insurance. we wanted the wars to end, we got long-slow-draw downs and we left 20k contractors in iraq that cost the same as having 200k troops there if you check the figures. obama is the moderate from the black lagoon, hated by even those of us who voted for him >_>.

This is a criticism I can understand.
 
choiceone;1061108232]I blame most of the debt increase on how disastrous the results were of Bush wasting money on the Iraq war and deciding to do nation-building there and in Afghanistan, and on Bush not paying attention to Clinton as the latter left office, when Clinton wanted to offer Bush some advice on certain issues. One of those issues would have been keeping an eye on the whole bank-mortgage thing. Bush either did not keep an eye on the latter problem or, more likely, just did nothing, as this problem grew over several years. I admit I was a Hillary supporter because I thought she would get us out of Iraq and probably out of Afghanistan faster.

What you show how little you truly know. The debt did increase from 5.7 trillion to 10.6 trillion during the Bush term and that includes the costs of the wars. The debt today is 16.2 trillion dollars so do the math, 4.9 trillion added to the debt by Bush and 5.6 trillion added by Obama in 4 years. As for ending Iraq, Bush negotiated the Status of Force Agreement that agreed to a withdrawal by the end of last year. Obama didn't end the war he implemented the SOF agreement.

Unlike you, I don't blame Obama for Obamacare, because what he really wanted, as did most Democrats, was a mandate on health insurance with an option for low-cost, single payer national health insurance, as in Japan, which would compete with the policies of private insurance companies to bring down premiums, and serious reform of the health care industry and its disastrously high price structure, which had never responded to market forces.

What he really wanted was the disatrous European healthcare model that has bankrupted those nations. You seem to lack a basic understanding of who pays for the uninsured. Under Obama, the federal taxpayers and in the real world that is a state expense.


Obama wanted, as I did, carrot-and-stick tax policy that would reward businesses for growth of decent-paying job creation in the US and punish them for closing operations here and opening them abroad in unwarranted industries and for outsourcing and offshoring US jobs (Romney actually outsourced to other countries Massachusetts jobs while he was governor there!). The reason so many Americans are on food stamps is because so many people have full-time employment at such low wages that they are actually eligible for them, and this is not Obama's fault - it is the fault of the pay structures at US companies and corporations who should be punished for so warping our economy
.

It isn't the Federal Government's role to punish private business, but rather control govt. greed and growth. We live in a private sector economy that Obama is demonizing. I succeeded in the private sector and you could too but have to change your attitude.

And I will never vote for any candidate for any elective office in the US who is not pro-choice on the issue of continuing or terminating a pregnancy, not for city council, local judge, mayor, not even state comptroller. Why would I vote for one for president? If the Republicans do not just abandon the anti-abortion stance and all the far right-wing idiots who hold it, their party will self-destruct.

Pro Choice doesn't matter because no President can change the law by himself. To me it is a non issue just like the made up war on women. This election should never be this close, Obama should lose in a landslide. What the polls show however is the ignorance of far too many who apparently are in need of Obamanomics. I find it interesting that people who haven't been aborted have firm support for Abortion.
 
Watching CNN today, I learned that about 75% of the people in various European countries would vote for Obama if they were American citizens, and I already know that the Japanese very much like Obama and so do the Canadians. I'd say that is good company to be in - very developed, well educated populations.

Ironically, your examples are also Socialistic! Japan isn't as much, but they do have Single Payer health care. No wonder they love Obama! He's following in their footsteps!

Any chance of you addressing my previous post to you? Do you only watch CNN? Or do you actually READ anything.....ya know, like Obama's own books?
 
Yawn....now let me smash your little argument real quick.

You liberals whine about the salaries of CEO's. lol.....I'm sorry, but you're being a moron. CEO's salaries are paid for WITH PRIVATELY EARNED MONEY! In other words, YOU DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE SALARY OF A CEO, UNLESS YOU'RE DIRECTLY INVESTED IN HIS COMPANY! It's private sector money man!

On the other hand, it's ironic that you failed to mention that you freakin liberals are always increasing the salaries of PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS, to the point, that for the first time in American history, a public sector worker earns more money than a private sector worker! Now do the Math Doogie. If it takes private sector tax payers to fund salaries of public sector workers, how long can the public worker earn more than the actual people paying the taxes?????

Obama isn't an executive, the dude can't even manage a media crisis, much less a financial one. HIs answer for EVERYTHING is the same; more government, more spending.

While majority of Americans support a "rich tax", they also support something else, and if you would dive a little deeper, you'de find it. The vast majority of Americans also say that the government should take NO MORE than 35% of ANY PERSON'S income. Do the math again my friend.....so while they believe the rich should pay more, which by the way, THEY DO, they also believe that anything above a 35% tax is unacceptable. There you have it. Glad you could learn something this evening.

Links or it is fantasy.
 
Links or it is fantasy.

You think links from CNN prove anything? Again, it's really simple here. I'm keeping it simple for you on purpose.

If you want to debate, illustrate YOU'VE READ SOMETHING MEANINGFUL. Hell, I'll even take your word for it, although I'm going to challenge you afterwards.

Simple question: HAVE YOU, OR HAVE YOU NOT READ OBAMA'S BOOKS?

It's a simple question choice, now answer it. You NOT answering is also an answer. It tells me you haven't read them, either of them. So, have you or not?

Everyone notices how you are ignoring the debate. I'm just trying to establish what you HAVE read. You say Obama's not a Marxist, but you haven't even bothered to read Obama in his own words? That proves you aren't credible on the subject. It proves you debate by cruising CNN and watching MSNBC probably, and come here with a mouth full of regurgitated talking points and opinions.

I'm not interested in your opinion until you can illustrate you have a foundation of KNOWLEDGE before you offer up your opinion. Now, have you or have you not read either of Obama's books?
 
Watching CNN today, I learned that about 75% of the people in various European countries would vote for Obama if they were American citizens, and I already know that the Japanese very much like Obama and so do the Canadians. I'd say that is good company to be in - very developed, well educated populations.

Why don't you go and live in their countries if they are such good company to be in?
 
Just my opinion. The conservative pundit vilification campaign of 2008 to today has a lot to do with it. When Clinton was POTUS there was one right-wing radio pundit, Fox News was just getting started as was the Internet blogosphere. During the Bush years the conservative pundits had the opportunity to gain in popularity and solidify a relationship of trust with their audiences. By the time Obama hit the scene the full apparatus of the right-wing media was ready to unleash its full strength on a new target, Barrack Obama. They would feed off of each other and held nothing back in their attempts to use the power of the conservative media to affect the outcome of an election. This included, a combination of unfavorable facts but also seasoned with commentary on those facts that made Obama out to be the enemy of any and all who care anything at all about this country using classic textbook propaganda techniques marrying political agenda with emotion that we all learned about in high school. It didn't work because Obama still won the election but it also worked in that it created an utter hatred for the new President among their audience.

One of the reasons I found this anti-Obama campaign so troubling is years ago as a new Christian who had been hired by a church media ministry my Pastor asked me to read a book as part of my orientation. I honestly forgot the exact name of the book but it was about how Satan uses slander and vilification to destroy the positive opinions people have of others. Satan accuses Christians day and night before God bringing up all of our faults to Him, the Bible teaches. Satan accused God before Eve in the Garden of Eden as not wanting the best for us. One of Satan's tools is to demonize (free pun) people in order to create a dislike for that person and cause divisions. It seemed to me that this was what I was witnessing in 08. I understand in politics we need to know where the candidates stand on the issues and their records but IMHO that's different than saying a fist bump with his wife is an act of terrorism, a speech made by somebody else that was incendiary should be attributed to him, his middle name should imply he's in league with Islamic terrorism, hates white people especially his own mom and grandmother, is deliberately trying to destroy America, etc., etc. etc. It was this behavior that more than anything else caused me, a Republican, to come to his defense and why my favorite political leader in America today is Gov. Chris Christie.
 
Just my opinion. The conservative pundit vilification campaign of 2008 to today has a lot to do with it. When Clinton was POTUS there was one right-wing radio pundit, Fox News was just getting started as was the Internet blogosphere. During the Bush years the conservative pundits had the opportunity to gain in popularity and solidify a relationship of trust with their audiences. By the time Obama hit the scene the full apparatus of the right-wing media was ready to unleash its full strength on a new target, Barrack Obama. They would feed off of each other and held nothing back in their attempts to use the power of the conservative media to affect the outcome of an election. This included, a combination of unfavorable facts but also seasoned with commentary on those facts that made Obama out to be the enemy of any and all who care anything at all about this country using classic textbook propaganda techniques marrying political agenda with emotion that we all learned about in high school. It didn't work because Obama still won the election but it also worked in that it created an utter hatred for the new President among their audience.

One of the reasons I found this anti-Obama campaign so troubling is years ago as a new Christian who had been hired by a church media ministry my Pastor asked me to read a book as part of my orientation. I honestly forgot the exact name of the book but it was about how Satan uses slander and vilification to destroy the positive opinions people have of others. Satan accuses Christians day and night before God bringing up all of our faults to Him, the Bible teaches. Satan accused God before Eve in the Garden of Eden as not wanting the best for us. One of Satan's tools is to demonize (free pun) people in order to create a dislike for that person and cause divisions. It seemed to me that this was what I was witnessing in 08. I understand in politics we need to know where the candidates stand on the issues and their records but IMHO that's different than saying a fist bump with his wife is an act of terrorism, a speech made by somebody else that was incendiary should be attributed to him, his middle name should imply he's in league with Islamic terrorism, hates white people especially his own mom and grandmother, is deliberately trying to destroy America, etc., etc. etc. It was this behavior that more than anything else caused me, a Republican, to come to his defense and why my favorite political leader in America today is Gov. Chris Christie.

Can I ask you a question? It's really simple. Have you read either one of Obama's books? I ask for a reason. No attack here, just want to know. Because you are making some pretty strong accusations about people who want Obama defeated in this election. Comparing Conservative attacks on Obama to Satan's attacks on believers. In a way, you are likening Obama to Christ. Yes, there are some critics who go overboard, but I'm not. I challenge and question the man's philosophy in both life, and politics. That's not Satanic, and it's not akin to Satan attacking Christians or believers.

People like you try to make criticism of Obama out to be something it's not. It's not personal. It's philosophical. WHO ARE WE AS AMERICANS? It sounds like such a trival and cliche question, but it literally MEANS something. WHO ARE WE????

You speak as though you are a Christian. That's great, so am I. Compare Christian principles with the principles of the modern left. They are basically polar opposites. They are conflicting PHILOSOPHIES! That's why I challenge and fight against THE PHILOSOPHIES of the left, not the actual people. I pray for Obama, but I also want him soundly defeated, because I don't believe his philosophies are healthy. Heck, they aren't even possible in America unless you truly do "fundamentally change" this country. I dont want to do that.

Just answer the simple question: have you read either of Obama's books?
 
Of course he hasn't read either of them. Percentage wise, I'd bet only a small number have. Instead, they just go by appearances. 'Hey, the brotha wrote a book! Isht, he wrote TWO books, so he GOTS to be good!'


You think links from CNN prove anything? Again, it's really simple here. I'm keeping it simple for you on purpose.

If you want to debate, illustrate YOU'VE READ SOMETHING MEANINGFUL. Hell, I'll even take your word for it, although I'm going to challenge you afterwards.

Simple question: HAVE YOU, OR HAVE YOU NOT READ OBAMA'S BOOKS?

It's a simple question choice, now answer it. You NOT answering is also an answer. It tells me you haven't read them, either of them. So, have you or not?

Everyone notices how you are ignoring the debate. I'm just trying to establish what you HAVE read. You say Obama's not a Marxist, but you haven't even bothered to read Obama in his own words? That proves you aren't credible on the subject. It proves you debate by cruising CNN and watching MSNBC probably, and come here with a mouth full of regurgitated talking points and opinions.

I'm not interested in your opinion until you can illustrate you have a foundation of KNOWLEDGE before you offer up your opinion. Now, have you or have you not read either of Obama's books?
 
The budget, includes all of it. And Bush did at the end of the day, spend more, as there was no off set.

No, he didn't, and I proved it. You can keep saying it as many times as you want, but he didn't. I have no idea what you think it gets you to keep saying something which isn't true, or how it makes you look credible. :shrug: But keep at it if you like.
 
What you show how little you truly know. The debt did increase from 5.7 trillion to 10.6 trillion during the Bush term and that includes the costs of the wars. The debt today is 16.2 trillion dollars so do the math, 4.9 trillion added to the debt by Bush and 5.6 trillion added by Obama in 4 years. As for ending Iraq, Bush negotiated the Status of Force Agreement that agreed to a withdrawal by the end of last year. Obama didn't end the war he implemented the SOF agreement.

Part of the rise in the debt after Bush was not spending: it was accrual of interest on the debt. The problem was that we were in a much worse recession than anyone at first imagined, and the solution was more money circulating in the economy, but people did not have the money to circulate. We also had the debt, the solution to which is cutting spending and raising revenue. I'm not a big economics girl, but that suggests a double bind, problems with opposing solutions. I'm amazed Obama managed it as well as he did.

I guess my wording on ending the war was not precise enough for you. But Hillary would have pulled out in January of that year, because she was adamant about that.

What he really wanted was the disatrous European healthcare model that has bankrupted those nations. You seem to lack a basic understanding of who pays for the uninsured. Under Obama, the federal taxpayers and in the real world that is a state expense.

Actually, he did not emphasize the Euro model; he gave Congress free reign to work a policy out even though he stated a preference for what I said. The Japanese model allows private insurance to just continue on, while public insurance is available at such a low cost that people on low incomes and people working for small businesses that do not provide insurance can afford it. It isn't great insurance, so there is an incentive to seek higher paying employment or work at larger companies that can afford to offer better insurance, but it isn't bad and covers an annual physical exam, two annual dental exams/cleanings a year, emergency care, etc., etc. It would have forced insurance companies to compete. Meanwhile, health care reform was supposed to target the outrageous pricing and also the problem of malpractice suits and exorbitant malpractice insurance. Pelosi and a few other Congressional Dems were the ones who insisted unrealistically that the insurance coverage be as good as that which Congress gets. They were terrible. Obama was not.

It isn't the Federal Government's role to punish private business, but rather control govt. greed and growth. We live in a private sector economy that Obama is demonizing. I succeeded in the private sector and you could too but have to change your attitude.

I disagree. I think that we live in a democratic republic which allows a private sector economy to operate as a free enterprise system with some capitalism. But as John Stuart Mill knew, politics always trumps economics, because a democratically governed population can decide at any time to change what it allows and does not allow in the way of economic activity. Capitalism does not even equal free enterprise, and it certainly does not equal democracy. It is what happens when some individuals, through free enterprise, have already reached a level where they have subsistence in the form of food, clothing, housing, including necessary heat and water and, in contemporary life, modern facilities for sewage, electricity, and means of communication, e.g., phone or internet, as well as basic education and health care, and a level of well being that allows aspiration beyond in meaningful free enterprise. Beyond that stage of meaningful enterprise, using some money as play money occurs, and that is true capitalism, money making money for no other reason than making money. It is not, after all, meaningful activity and its only utility is that some of the money can be used for better subsistence or more meaningful enterprise. When it becomes destructive of overall subsistence, it can certainly be punished.

What makes you think I didn't ever succeed in the private sector? I have worked for a multinational corporation, taught in private colleges on two sides of the Pacific, and supported myself and a private research project through self-employment for nine years, if not lucratively. Quite a few millionaires are Democrats. But I don't think that chasing money for its own sake is success. I think it's shallow and when done the way Romney did it, it becomes vulture capitalism. Ick. Success as a person is about meaningful activities, not money.

Pro Choice doesn't matter because no President can change the law by himself. To me it is a non issue just like the made up war on women. This election should never be this close, Obama should lose in a landslide. What the polls show however is the ignorance of far too many who apparently are in need of Obamanomics. I find it interesting that people who haven't been aborted have firm support for Abortion.

Pro-choice doesn't matter to you. It matters to me. No people have ever been aborted. Only embryos and fetuses have been aborted, and they are not people. The point of that right to choose is not just as a safety net for girls and women in a country with a high rape rate and those who want to plan their families. It is for equality under the law and for human dignity and ownership of one's own body. If you can't understand that, you can't understand anything about private property, because there is no property of any woman more private than her own sex organs and immune system.
 
choiceone;1061108578]Part of the rise in the debt after Bush was not spending: it was accrual of interest on the debt. The problem was that we were in a much worse recession than anyone at first imagined, and the solution was more money circulating in the economy, but people did not have the money to circulate. We also had the debt, the solution to which is cutting spending and raising revenue. I'm not a big economics girl, but that suggests a double bind, problems with opposing solutions. I'm amazed Obama managed it as well as he did.

Do you have any idea what the debt service on the National debt was during the Bush and Obama years? what I see from you is someone who wants to believe what you are told but doesn't seem to have the ability to do your own research to verify the rhetoric. You also pick and choose what Obama says that you want to believe. How about in 2009 after being in office saying that if he didn't generate better results this would be a one term proposition? The results today are worse than they were when he took office.

It is obvious that you have no concept of leadership because leaders cannot delegate responsibility. The results today are no one else's fault but Obama

I guess my wording on ending the war was not precise enough for you. But Hillary would have pulled out in January of that year, because she was adamant about that.

That is what she said but we will never know what she would have done. Again rhetoric that you want to believe but results you want to ignore.

Actually, he did not emphasize the Euro model; he gave Congress free reign to work a policy out even though he stated a preference for what I said. The Japanese model allows private insurance to just continue on, while public insurance is available at such a low cost that people on low incomes and people working for small businesses that do not provide insurance can afford it. It isn't great insurance, so there is an incentive to seek higher paying employment or work at larger companies that can afford to offer better insurance, but it isn't bad and covers an annual physical exam, two annual dental exams/cleanings a year, emergency care, etc., etc. It would have forced insurance companies to compete. Meanwhile, health care reform was supposed to target the outrageous pricing and also the problem of malpractice suits and exorbitant malpractice insurance. Pelosi and a few other Congressional Dems were the ones who insisted unrealistically that the insurance coverage be as good as that which Congress gets. They were terrible. Obama was not.

He shut out the Republicans who actually had some good ideas. You cannot have true healthcare reform without addressing tort reform and allowing insurance to be sold across state lines. What you and other liberals still don't understand is that you don't pay for the uninsured in my state and I don't pay for the uninsured in your state. Why should that change?


I disagree. I think that we live in a democratic republic which allows a private sector economy to operate as a free enterprise system with some capitalism. But as John Stuart Mill knew, politics always trumps economics, because a democratically governed population can decide at any time to change what it allows and does not allow in the way of economic activity. Capitalism does not even equal free enterprise, and it certainly does not equal democracy. It is what happens when some individuals, through free enterprise, have already reached a level where they have subsistence in the form of food, clothing, housing, including necessary heat and water and, in contemporary life, modern facilities for sewage, electricity, and means of communication, e.g., phone or internet, as well as basic education and health care, and a level of well being that allows aspiration beyond in meaningful free enterprise. Beyond that stage of meaningful enterprise, using some money as play money occurs, and that is true capitalism, money making money for no other reason than making money. It is not, after all, meaningful activity and its only utility is that some of the money can be used for better subsistence or more meaningful enterprise. When it becomes destructive of overall subsistence, it can certainly be punished.

We have a current regulated capitalistic economy and we have 50 independent states. We also have a 3.8 trillion dollar Federal Govt. that duplicates some of the state expenses. We have a President now that demonizes capitalism and individual wealth creation. Currently 53% of income earners pay for the cost of that federal govt. including the debt service with Obama saying that isn't enough. Sound fair to you?

What makes you think I didn't ever succeed in the private sector? I have worked for a multinational corporation, taught in private colleges on two sides of the Pacific, and supported myself and a private research project through self-employment for nine years, if not lucratively. Quite a few millionaires are Democrats. But I don't think that chasing money for its own sake is success. I think it's shallow and when done the way Romney did it, it becomes vulture capitalism. Ick. Success as a person is about meaningful activities, not money.

Then you have my apology, you just don't sound like someone who understands capitalism at all. We know Obama doesn't and yet you and others will give him four more years. The question is why? What is it about the obama record that deserves four more years?



Pro-choice doesn't matter to you. It matters to me. No people have ever been aborted. Only embryos and fetuses have been aborted, and they are not people. The point of that right to choose is not just as a safety net for girls and women in a country with a high rape rate and those who want to plan their families. It is for equality under the law and for human dignity and ownership of one's own body. If you can't understand that, you can't understand anything about private property, because there is no property of any woman more private than her own sex organs and immune system.

That is your opinion and an opinion that will have to be reconsiled with your creator someday. What you do is your expense and your problem. Don't ask the Federal Taxpayer to pay for your personal choice issue. I saw the ultra sound of my grandkids and can tell you that they weren't an embryo and fetus but again your choice, take responsibility for it.

Seems that choice is something that you want to define by your standards.
 
Can I ask you a question? It's really simple. Have you read either one of Obama's books? I ask for a reason. No attack here, just want to know. Because you are making some pretty strong accusations about people who want Obama defeated in this election. Comparing Conservative attacks on Obama to Satan's attacks on believers. In a way, you are likening Obama to Christ. Yes, there are some critics who go overboard, but I'm not. I challenge and question the man's philosophy in both life, and politics. That's not Satanic, and it's not akin to Satan attacking Christians or believers.

People like you try to make criticism of Obama out to be something it's not. It's not personal. It's philosophical. WHO ARE WE AS AMERICANS? It sounds like such a trival and cliche question, but it literally MEANS something. WHO ARE WE????

You speak as though you are a Christian. That's great, so am I. Compare Christian principles with the principles of the modern left. They are basically polar opposites. They are conflicting PHILOSOPHIES! That's why I challenge and fight against THE PHILOSOPHIES of the left, not the actual people. I pray for Obama, but I also want him soundly defeated, because I don't believe his philosophies are healthy. Heck, they aren't even possible in America unless you truly do "fundamentally change" this country. I dont want to do that.

Just answer the simple question: have you read either of Obama's books?

No I have never read either of Obama's books. Neither do I wish to come across as saying Obama's policies and track record are for some reason above criticism. All I'm saying is to ME most of the criticism of Sen. Obama in 2008 had little to do with policies and was focused on personal demonization, at least the criticism that I recall. As far as the books go, I have heard quotes here and there that to be honest I have paid little attention to. The reason for this is the sources of so much of his non-policy related vilification have effectively eliminated almost all credibility to ME due to their treatment of him in other areas where they have proved to be expert in taking ones own words completely out of context in order to personally slander decent people in support of their political agenda; the Shirley Sherrod situation comes to mind as an example. I realize Brietbart has passed away and God rest his soul but that is one example. Again, not saying Obama's policies and track record are above criticism.
 
That YOU'VE found. Tell me, how did you like "Dreams From My Father"? Did you enjoy the book? How about "Audacity of Hope"? Did you enjoy that one too?

Tell me what you like most about either of them.....

Have you even read them? Please tell me you've at least read Obama's own books before you decided to debate someone else who has.....Please don't be another one of "those" guys, who forms opinions based on.....well, nothing more than their own cracker jack interpretations of how they think Obama is in real life.

So, just tell me what you liked most about either of the books.....

It's based on knowing what a Marxist is, definition of the word, and actions of the elected politician. Any nutter can misread words, impose their nutter interpretation to what they quote, lose context, and pretend that is evidence. Anyone spending five seconds on a site like this understands how this works.
 
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