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The Real Agenda Is Oh So Apparent

One is that if Flynn lied to the FBI, that's a felony. Not good.


What lie did Flynn tell the FBI? The hilarious outrage seems to be that Flynn lied to the Vise President, not the FBI. Is that a felony?
 
Another is that Flynn's behavior may be the tip of the iceberg. We don't know if he was acting on his own, or at the request of Bannon or Trump or someone else. We don't know all of Flynn's ties to Russia or the Kremlin. We don't know if the campaign was getting some kind of aid from Russian intelligence.

When you find all of that out, let me know, OK?
 
Please wake up. The federal government is leaking all over the place, because there are serious issues relating to Russian influence, and no one in the White House or Congress is doing anything about it.




Now you’re identifying the actual felony. It’s a felony for people in the intelligence agencies to leak classified information to the media. Where’s your outrage about that?


Given that several major campaign staffers are now implicated -- Flynn, Manafort and Stone -- and that the President's behavior has been strange to say the least ("We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country is so innocent?”) -- this could turn out to be very, very serious.


Then you have no problem with America’s CIA backing the Baath party in Iraq and aidng THE MASS KILLER Saddam to come to power, right? You have no problem with America’s CIA aiding and abetting the overthrow of an elected leader in Iran only to replace him with the BRUTAL KILLER Shah of Iran, right? Or the Kennedy order to have Fidel Castro assassinated right?


Oh wait! Maybe Trump was right, huh?
 
Yes! Identify me ideologically please. I have disagreements with both right and left, capitalist and socialist, Republicans and Democrats and every other political party, atheist and religionist, males, females and people of every religion, skin color and nationality. If there's a definition of partisan that relates to "absolute individualist," let me know. I don't believe in human or government perfection. I only believe that all government is force by definition and the BIGGER the government the BIGGER the force.

That is an ideological stance.
 
That is an ideological stance.

It's not a particular political ideological position, it's simply the truth!

If I said George Washington was our first President, would that be a political ideological position?
 
"May have?" You mean it's not even clear yet that any law was broken?



I still don't know what the so-called law is yet, do you? I only know that the Democrats, national leftist media and the neo-cons John McCain and Lindsey Graham are screaming bloody murder to make a federal case out of it and totally ignoring the REAL crime.

The Logan Act.. And no I am NOT sure if he broke any laws. That's why i said he 'may have' and I am calling for an investigation. To find out if any laws were broken. While all you are doing is just calling this a big leftist media/Dem conspiracy to get Trump. And now because Trump has an (R) after his name you want to give him a pass and blame everyone else but him.

Are you afraid of an investigation?
 
It's not a particular political ideological position, it's simply the truth!

If I said George Washington was our first President, would that be a political ideological position?

No, you believe that all government is force by your definition. That is not the factual definition of government. That is a philosophical position. How society should be organized (or even if it should be organized at all) is a philosophical position. Are you an anarchist?
 
What lie did Flynn tell the FBI? The hilarious outrage seems to be that Flynn lied to the Vise President, not the FBI. Is that a felony?

Soon after the Jan. 23 briefing, James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, sent agents to interview Mr. Flynn. If he told the agents what he said publicly for more than a week after that interview — that his conversations with the ambassador had been innocuous and did not involve sanctions — then he could face legal trouble. If the authorities concluded that he knowingly lied to the F.B.I., it could expose him to a felony charge.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/fbi-interviewed-mike-flynn.html
 
I don't believe that for a second.

Why not? It is perfectly possible to be a conservative without being a republican. I am one of those. I also hate political parties but I am conservative.
 
Yeah, I saw Trump complaining about the leaks on Twitter as well. ...You know, I don't seem to recall Mr. Trump or his supporters complaining about the FBI leaking info about Hillary Clinton's email investigation about ten days out from the election such as to tip it in his favor. Could this be a...double-standard?

If that can be done to Hillary Clinton with the full and explicit support of Donald Trump and his followers, then this can be done to Donald Trump without their hypocritical complaint, I say!

The FBI leaked the information to Congress, the people who leaked the info. on Flynn leaked it to the press. One is a valid execution of the functions of their job, the other is a violation of Fed. law. But don't let a little thing like the truith get in the way of your hate.
 
The FBI leaked the information to Congress, the people who leaked the info. on Flynn leaked it to the press. One is a valid execution of the functions of their job, the other is a violation of Fed. law. But don't let a little thing like the truith get in the way of your hate.

No actually, that was of questionable legality, as the Senate Majority Leader suggested. Furthermore, what about the advance leaks to Rudy Giuliani and so forth?

And enough with the idiotic personal jabs if you don't mind. I say that to both you and the rest of the forum's rightists.
 
The deliberate and intentional effort to destroy this Administration before it has any chance to accomplish any of the basic expectations that put it into power is unAmerican, hateful, and there is nothing to commend it.
lol

Sorry, but the impulse to do the same to Obama was just as strong. The difference is that Obama was nowhere near as incompetent as Trump; had nowhere near the same level of conflicts of interest; wasn't reviewing classified documents in the middle of a club, using cell phones as flashlights; and his campaign was not calling the Kremlin twice a week; and did not offend the entire federal bureaucracy before taking office.

Trump's opponents were not the ones who forced him to hire Manafort, Stone, Flynn, Tillerson, Conway and Bannon. They did not write a poorly drafted travel ban. They didn't force him to make an argument that executive action on immigration was "unreviewable by the courts" to the courts. They didn't tell Flynn to talk to the Russian ambassador before he took office. They didn't tell Flynn to potentially lie to the FBI.

Trump has no one but himself to blame for all these issues.


The ironic thing is that we have a President who is non-partisan, not an ideologue, and who has no agenda other than making America more prosperous, stronger, safer, better. But the left intends to destroy him just the same because he has the wrong letter following his name.
PLEASE.

Trump is deeply divisive and partisan. The divide is simply a little different -- the alignment is "with Trump" or "against Trump."


And I don't care who you are. To destroy somebody just because they belong to the wrong party is just wrong.
I agree. However, it's fully justified to oppose a President because they are utterly incompetent, because their policies may damage America, because they do nothing whatsoever to resolve rampant conflicts of interest, because they offend our allies and detract from our interests, are apparently in the pocket of an authoritarian leader like Putin, and treat the Constitution like a tissue. To name just a few of his issues.
 
I’ll say it again, I’m no Donald Trump fan. I didn’t vote for him and I think he’s a radical egotistical narcissist. And I despise Hillary Clinton and didn’t vote for her either.


Having said that, I just want to say that as a true nonpartisan, (I despise political parties), I’m appalled at what I see going on politically. It’s oh so apparent that leftist media and even America’s security and intelligence agencies are hell bent on bringing this President down.


If an incoming National Security Advisor talking to a foreign nations leaders before he actually takes the position officially, is a crime, there’s something screwed up with the law.


When Democrats, major leftist media and the neo-cons John McCain and Lindsey Graham scream bloody murder for investigations and hearings to attempt to crucify Flynn and Trump because of Flynn’s so-called crime, and nary a word is mentioned about the real crime whereby somebody in the intelligence agencies leaked the classified material to the media, then priorities are ass backwards and or the only REAL agenda is to embarrass and bring down Trump.


It’s disgusting and enraging and it would be sad if it weren’t so damned pathetic!

Such displays of profound corruption from the elite as we see now are the dictionary definition of "Winning the battle but losing the war".
 
SO what? Flynn was the incoming NSA. Why shouldn’t he be able to discuss whatever he wanted with whoever he wanted?
Because he was still a private citizen, and the Obama administration was still setting policy. He was undermining the White House even as it was issuing new sanctions.

And again: As per usual, the cover-up turns out to do more damage than the crime. He allegedly lied to the White House, Vice President, and the American people. He may have also lied to the FBI about it, which would be a felony.

Another major issue is that Flynn has been in the pocket of the Kremlin for quite some time now, as indicated not just by that specific call, but lots of communication with Russian officials (possibly including Russian intelligence), but by working for RT, and sitting with Putin at a gala dinner in December 2015.
 
More with Benghazi[emoji849]

The entire problem with Benghazi was the cover up via blaming the thing on a video. If Clinton had simply said "we were attacked and we didn't anticipate it" the whole deal would have been over in a day or two but, in the interests of supporting the Obama reelection, she felt the need to lie and to cover up.

It's ALWAYS about lying...
 
I’ll say it again, I’m no Donald Trump fan. I didn’t vote for him and I think he’s a radical egotistical narcissist. And I despise Hillary Clinton and didn’t vote for her either.


Having said that, I just want to say that as a true nonpartisan, (I despise political parties), I’m appalled at what I see going on politically. It’s oh so apparent that leftist media and even America’s security and intelligence agencies are hell bent on bringing this President down.


If an incoming National Security Advisor talking to a foreign nations leaders before he actually takes the position officially, is a crime, there’s something screwed up with the law.


When Democrats, major leftist media and the neo-cons John McCain and Lindsey Graham scream bloody murder for investigations and hearings to attempt to crucify Flynn and Trump because of Flynn’s so-called crime, and nary a word is mentioned about the real crime whereby somebody in the intelligence agencies leaked the classified material to the media, then priorities are ass backwards and or the only REAL agenda is to embarrass and bring down Trump.


It’s disgusting and enraging and it would be sad if it weren’t so damned pathetic!


I'm STILL appalled that the GOP via Ken Starr blew over $50 million US tax payer dollars on investigating Whitewater & Horn Dog Willie Clinton for years and all they could come up with was a lie about an extramarital affair; talk about a classified national security issue .......
 
OK, name some so we all can be hysterical about WWIII. What moron that ever became President or ran for resident WASN'T an egotistical, narcissistic whack job? it's a prerequisite for the insane job! Trump could be at his wonderland in Florida playing golf and chasing his attractive wife around the mansion. What idiot wants to be President and be hated by at least half of the people and have a target on his back and secret service thugs guarding his toilet while he relieves himself?

Was Obama an egotistical maniac? No-brainer! An astounding YOU BETCHA!

So all world leaders are dangerous narcissists/fools/egomaniacs to the same degree with the same risk, and they are just particularly picking on Trump due to a partisan agenda? No way at all that he displays those traits to a far greater, more reckless, and more dangerous degree, than is normative among world leaders or tolerable, and that is what warrants the proportionate reaction? No way that could be the case.....right?
 
lol

Sorry, but the impulse to do the same to Obama was just as strong. The difference is that Obama was nowhere near as incompetent as Trump; had nowhere near the same level of conflicts of interest; wasn't reviewing classified documents in the middle of a club, using cell phones as flashlights; and his campaign was not calling the Kremlin twice a week; and did not offend the entire federal bureaucracy before taking office.

Trump's opponents were not the ones who forced him to hire Manafort, Stone, Flynn, Tillerson, Conway and Bannon. They did not write a poorly drafted travel ban. They didn't force him to make an argument that executive action on immigration was "unreviewable by the courts" to the courts. They didn't tell Flynn to talk to the Russian ambassador before he took office. They didn't tell Flynn to potentially lie to the FBI.

Trump has no one but himself to blame for all these issues.



PLEASE.

Trump is deeply divisive and partisan. The divide is simply a little different -- the alignment is "with Trump" or "against Trump."



I agree. However, it's fully justified to oppose a President because they are utterly incompetent, because their policies may damage America, because they do nothing whatsoever to resolve rampant conflicts of interest, because they offend our allies and detract from our interests, are apparently in the pocket of an authoritarian leader like Putin, and treat the Constitution like a tissue. To name just a few of his issues.

This President doesn't have 30 days in office yet. At least let him get his cabinet in place and everything organized before you assume hie is incompetent and the policies they will propose will be the end of the world as we know it.

I would imagine you could poll every conservative at DP, and not one of them was out to destroy Obama before he was given a chance.
 
What lie did Flynn tell the FBI? The hilarious outrage seems to be that Flynn lied to the Vise President, not the FBI. Is that a felony?
We don't yet know if he actually broke the law.

Flynn was questioned about the calls to the Russian ambassador shortly after the inauguration.

If he told the FBI the same type of lies that he told Mike Pence, then he could be charged with lying to the FBI and/or obstruction of justice.

He can lie all he wants to the VP, that's not a crime. Lying to law enforcement? That's a felony.

Needless to say, this would not be the first time that the cover-up was worse than the offense.
 
We don't yet know if he actually broke the law.

Flynn was questioned about the calls to the Russian ambassador shortly after the inauguration.

If he told the FBI the same type of lies that he told Mike Pence, then he could be charged with lying to the FBI and/or obstruction of justice.

He can lie all he wants to the VP, that's not a crime. Lying to law enforcement? That's a felony.

Needless to say, this would not be the first time that the cover-up was worse than the offense.

Lying to the rest of the team is a good way to get kicked off Team Trump. He considers that disloyalty to the team.
 
Now you’re identifying the actual felony. It’s a felony for people in the intelligence agencies to leak classified information to the media. Where’s your outrage about that?
It's in the same location as Trump's outrage about the DNC and Clinton campaign hacks. Neither of which produced felony charges, by the way.


Then you have no problem with America’s CIA backing the Baath party in Iraq and aidng THE MASS KILLER Saddam to come to power, right?
Nope, not happy about that. Or the US giving the nod to the Iranian coup that put the Shah into power. Or the US backing the nullification of elections in Vietnam, and backing a string of coups and authoritarian goons.

That's not a partisan thing. I'm opposed to any nation interfering in any sovereign elections.


Or the Kennedy order to have Fidel Castro assassinated right?
Yes, definitely against that. Assassinating foreign leaders is an absolutely terrible idea.

All options in dealing with brutal authoritarian regimes are bad. The "least bad" option these days is usually to have UN support to do what needs to be done.

Moreover, none of what you're saying justifies Russian interference in US elections -- or in the US government doing absolutely nothing about foreign interference in US elections.
 
This President doesn't have 30 days in office yet. At least let him get his cabinet in place and everything organized before you assume hie is incompetent and the policies they will propose will be the end of the world as we know it.
Pass.

He touted his lack of experience as a positive during the campaign. It's turned out to be a total disaster, and there is no one to blame except the guy in charge.


I would imagine you could poll every conservative at DP, and not one of them was out to destroy Obama before he was given a chance.
I'm afraid my time machine is broken. :mrgreen:

Perhaps I'll try to do a search for posts in mid-February 2009. But I seriously doubt they gave him much of a chance.
 
I’ll say it again, I’m no Donald Trump fan. I didn’t vote for him and I think he’s a radical egotistical narcissist. And I despise Hillary Clinton and didn’t vote for her either.


Having said that, I just want to say that as a true nonpartisan, (I despise political parties), I’m appalled at what I see going on politically. It’s oh so apparent that leftist media and even America’s security and intelligence agencies are hell bent on bringing this President down.


If an incoming National Security Advisor talking to a foreign nations leaders before he actually takes the position officially, is a crime, there’s something screwed up with the law.


When Democrats, major leftist media and the neo-cons John McCain and Lindsey Graham scream bloody murder for investigations and hearings to attempt to crucify Flynn and Trump because of Flynn’s so-called crime, and nary a word is mentioned about the real crime whereby somebody in the intelligence agencies leaked the classified material to the media, then priorities are ass backwards and or the only REAL agenda is to embarrass and bring down Trump.


It’s disgusting and enraging and it would be sad if it weren’t so damned pathetic!

You're oh so wrong.

No, it's not illegal for NSA director to speak with other nations before taking office. It is unethical, however, for one with inside information because of his connection with intelligence, to unethically and possibly illegally GIVE that information to an enemy foreign country, and have a discussion about it....and then lie about it afterwards. He had multiple communications with Russia and discussed the sanctions (which were a United States secret at that time) at length with them.

The news organizations are merely reporting what the Trump administration is doing and saying. If you find it appalling, that's because what htey have said and done IS appalling. It's historical, in fact.

Can you think of one other instance where a political operative who has the President's ear (and is of the inner circle) has the belief, and then hte nerve to say to the country, that they WILL not be questioned about their actions? That's dictator talk. In America, we not only have the right to question the actions of the government branches, we have the duty to question them.

Notice that no one is going on tv and claiming Trump wasn't born in America. Remember that the birther movement arose and went on for YEARS against Obama. A totally false claim, aimed at egging on their supporters, creating hatred toward the black President, undermining his Presidency. TRUMP WAS A BIRTHER. He didn't admit that Obama was born in the U.S. until 2016. That is not what is going on with this administration.

What is going on is reporting of extremely unusual behavior by the administration, so much so that the mental health of Trump is being questioned by his own Party members. There is something wrong with him.

He calls a press conference after inauguration. Instead of talking procedures or policies, he rant in anger that they are showing unflattering pictures of him and are being unfair to him. Very bizarre. Such things should be reported to the public.

He is attacking the very democracy he has a duty to protect, when he attacks the judiciary and the free press. This is important...and unprecedented.

I think you've missed a lot of what is going on in the administration.

Did you know, for instance, that Trump knew a month ago about Flynn's conversations with Russia, where he told them the sanctions that were supposedly confidential, and that Trump knew that Flynn had lied about that to others including the V.P.? If the press didn't report this, you wouldn't know. This is important. This is unethical, if not illegal, behavior by the President of the United States. It matters.

There is a real issue with the fact that a presidential campaign worked with an enemy foreign nation to interfere with America's democracy and election process. This is very serious and cannot be overstated. This goes to the very security of our democracy. This goes beyond political party and would apply if the President were Trump or Obama or Bush or Clinton.
 
Talking with anyone, including foreign officials, is not a crime. Saying that when your man is President, he intends to do X or Y, is a crime, and it should be. Lets potentially hostile foreign powers get the jump on what we plan to do.

Since General Flynn having been an intelligence guru in the army and he absolutely had to know that his communications with the Russians were being listened to by the FBI, I don't know about you, but I'll be very surprised if anything in the FEB transcripts can pin a crime on Flynn.

I'll also be very surprised if the intell/FBI shadow government will ever be uncovered and anybody prosecuted and jailed for the leak.
 
This President doesn't have 30 days in office yet. At least let him get his cabinet in place and everything organized before you assume hie is incompetent and the policies they will propose will be the end of the world as we know it.

I would imagine you could poll every conservative at DP, and not one of them was out to destroy Obama before he was given a chance.

Well he is getting EOs blocked by the Judiciary, an appointment blocked by the Congress, a cabinet member who had to resign, upset foreign relations, pissed off the intelligence community, etc. all within that first month. I mean, there's already measurement on the matter.
 
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