The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight until Islam reigns supreme.

[Simon W. Moon]

The

iirc, the Bible says to sell all your belongings and count on your treasure in Heaven instead


Are all the Christians you know without belongings?


Or is following a religion not quite like that?

 

[stevecanuck]

Understanding a Difficult Verse, Qur'an 4:34: Additional Translations | The Feminist Sexual Ethics Project | Brandeis University

You found one interpreter who decided (apropos of nothing) that Allah was speaking metaphorically, and that "beat them" actually means have sex with them. He then had to deal with the glaring contradiction in the previous phrase that says to sleep apart from them. How to fix that? Presto, just invent another metaphor. This was disingenuous word play at its best.

Now, compare that to these translations and count how many use words like beat and strike. It's not even close.

Ayah an-Nisa` (Women) 4:34

 

[stevecanuck]

iirc, the Bible says to sell all your belongings and count on your treasure in Heaven instead


Are all the Christians you know without belongings?


Or is following a religion not quite like that?

Sorry, but my whataboutism bin is already overflowing.

Do you have an actual comment on the subject at hand, or did you just want to demonstrate that you're yet another drive-by artist?

 

[Lovebug]

You found one interpreter who decided (apropos of nothing) that Allah was speaking metaphorically, and that "beat them" actually means have sex with them. He then had to deal with the glaring contradiction in the previous phrase that says to sleep apart from them. How to fix that? Presto, just invent another metaphor. This was disingenuous word play at its best.

Now, compare that to these translations and count how many use words like beat and strike. It's not even close.

Ayah an-Nisa` (Women) 4:34

Give it another glance. It has more than one interpretation.
Same with the one I posted yesterday.

 

[stevecanuck]

Give it another glance. It has more than one interpretation.
Same with the one I posted yesterday.

I saw that. It then went on to explain how Ahmed Ali had a different take, which I thought was the point of your post. If it wasn't, what was?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Sorry, but my whataboutism bin is already overflowing.

lol
Maybe you think this is whataboutism because it mentions adherents of another religion.

My comment does not suggest that Christians are even worse or are doing the same thing as a whataboutist comment would do.


I made a point about the nature of the relationship between human behavior and scripture
by asking you to observe the relationship as it appears in your own context.

Do you have an actual comment on the subject at hand, or did you just want to demonstrate that you're yet another drive-by artist?

the relationship between humans and their religious texts is an unspoken but incredibly essential element of you argument.


If humans always go full bore and do everything their religion tells them, then quoting some verses is an excellent argument that the verses are indicative of people's behavior.

Does that make sense to you?

---

However, if humans tend to pick and choose which religious precepts they embrace cafeteria style,
then merely posting verses is insufficient to show that the the verses are indicative of people's behavior.

You would also need to show that people are actually adding those particular verses to their cafeteria tray.

Does that make sense to you?

---

iow, ​

​

If humans usually choose to follow every single thing in the Bible,​

then it is likely humans would also choose to follow every single thing in the Quran.​

​

If humans choose not to follow every single thing in the Bible,​

then it is likely humans would also choose not to follow every single thing in the Quran.​

 

[stevecanuck]

No, actually - the Quran doesn’t call anyone who isn’t Muslim “the lowest of God’s creatures” or anything else you have claimed.

Why do you post lies?


You don’t believe what they believe - that’s fine. But you consistently try to slander their religion and broadbrush an entire religion, why?

And verse 98:6

Sahih International: Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.

Pickthall: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.

Yusuf Ali: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

Shakir: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.

Muhammad Sarwar: The disbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans will dwell forever in hell; they are the worst of all creatures.

Mohsin Khan: Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

Arberry: The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolaters shall be in the Fire of Gehenna, therein dwelling forever; those are the worst of creatures.


Go ahead and challenge me on any other claim I've made. I'm ready, willing, and able to put your mind at ease.

 

[BirdinHand]

And verse 98:6

Sahih International: Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.

Pickthall: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.

Yusuf Ali: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

Shakir: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.

Muhammad Sarwar: The disbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans will dwell forever in hell; they are the worst of all creatures.

Mohsin Khan: Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

Arberry: The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolaters shall be in the Fire of Gehenna, therein dwelling forever; those are the worst of creatures.


Go ahead and challenge me on any other claim I've made. I'm ready, willing, and able to put your mind at ease.

My mind isn’t the one troubled

 

[stevecanuck]

lol
Maybe you think this is whataboutism because it mentions adherents of another religion.

Well, given that the thread title is The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight until Islam reigns supreme, I would say that talking about other religions is the very definition of whataboutism.

If humans usually choose to follow every single thing in the Bible,​

then it is likely humans would also choose to follow every single thing in the Quran.​

​

If humans choose not to follow every single thing in the Bible,​

then it is likely humans would also choose not to follow every single thing in the Quran.​

Silly word game.

The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight until Islam reigns supreme.
There are more than enough Muslims who try to obey those commands to be causing problems around the world.

If only 5% of Muslims fit that description, there would be 80,000,000 devout bloodthirsty jihadists/jihad supporters. What more do you need to understand?

 

[stevecanuck]

My mind isn’t the one troubled

I know it isn't. Your blissful, willful ignorance keeps you happy, and I'm okay with that. Just don't try to tell me I'm wrong simply because you don't want to face the hard truth. You made a direct statement about what the Qur'an doesn't say, and I proved you wrong. Deal with it.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Well, given that the thread title is The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight until Islam reigns supreme, I would say that talking about other religions is the very definition of whataboutism.

feel free to say it.

You're wrong.

but feel free to say it anyway.

Silly word game.

lol

I haven't told you your conclusions are wrong.

I am pointing out the deficiencies in your argument.

If you were able or willing to understand the weak points of your argument, you could improve your argument.

 

[stevecanuck]

feel free to say it.

You're wrong.

but feel free to say it anyway.



lol

I haven't told you your conclusions are wrong.

I am pointing out the deficiencies in your argument.

If you were able or willing to understand the weak points of your argument, you could improve your argument.

I see you only quoted the part that you could gratuitously deny and left out the bit at the end. Hmmmm, I wonder why.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I see you only quoted the part that you could gratuitously deny and left out the bit at the end. Hmmmm, I wonder why.

It was irrelevant to what I said.

I have only addressed the structure of your argument, not the conclusion you are trying to prove with your argument.

Addressing the part I left out would be talking about a whole new argument of yours.

I am glad to do it next.

 

[stevecanuck]

It was irrelevant to what I said.

I have only addressed the structure of your argument, not the conclusion you are trying to prove with your argument.

Addressing the part I left out would be talking about a whole new argument of yours.

I am glad to do it next.

Sure. So you can give me another "you're wrong"? I'll pass. Bye.

 

[stevecanuck]

Meanwhile, shit like this keeps happening while the world examines its shoes:

MSN

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Sure. So you can give me another "you're wrong"? I'll pass. Bye.

Once again, I did not tell you were wrong.

An argument is something distinct and different than a conclusion.
I did not talk about your conclusion

I said that the structure of your argument needed work.

 

[reinaert]

The US is probably one of the best places on earth to be trans. In Muslim countries, there is zero tolerance and they help you to the other side rather quickly.

So, not true.

Iran recognizes trans people, and subsidizes sex re-assignment.

Iran.

 

[Phys251]

The following four verses command Muslims to fight until Islam reigns supreme. Ongoing insurgencies in the African Sahel and elsewhere are a direct result of Islam's clearly stated goal of ruling the world. Unitalicized comments in square braces are mine added for clarity and context:

2:193 - "And fight them until persecution [rejection of Islam] is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist [cease their opposition to Islam], then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers [those who continue to oppose Islam]."

8:39 - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is seer of what they do." [Same definitions as above]

9:29 - "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians] as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."

9:33 - "He it is Who hath sent His messenger [Mohamed] with the guidance [the Qur'an] and the Religion of Truth [Islam], that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse."

And what do we do about this? Bomb bomb bomb Iran?

 

[stevecanuck]

Once again, I did not tell you were wrong.

An argument is something distinct and different than a conclusion.
I did not talk about your conclusion

I said that the structure of your argument needed work.

Okay, go ahead. What’s on your mind?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Okay, go ahead. What’s on your mind?

what would you like me to go ahead and do?

 

[stevecanuck]

what would you like me to go ahead and do?

Tell me how the structure of my argument can be improved.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Tell me how the structure of my argument can be improved.

Please see my previous posts where I did just that.

This one has the more detailed explanation

Post in thread 'The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight until Islam reigns supreme.'

Tuesday at 6:14 PM

Sorry, but my whataboutism bin is already overflowing.

lol
Maybe you think this is whataboutism because it mentions adherents of another religion.

My comment does not suggest that Christians are even worse or are doing the same thing as a whataboutist comment would do.


I made a point about the nature of the relationship between human behavior and scripture
by asking you to observe the relationship as it appears in your own context.

Do you have an actual comment on the subject at hand, or did you just want to demonstrate that you're yet another drive-by artist?

...

• Simon W. Moon

• 

 

[stevecanuck]

Please see my previous posts where I did just that.

This one has the more detailed explanation

Post in thread 'The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight until Islam reigns supreme.'

Tuesday at 6:14 PM

Sorry, but my whataboutism bin is already overflowing.

lol
Maybe you think this is whataboutism because it mentions adherents of another religion.

My comment does not suggest that Christians are even worse or are doing the same thing as a whataboutist comment would do.


I made a point about the nature of the relationship between human behavior and scripture
by asking you to observe the relationship as it appears in your own context.

Do you have an actual comment on the subject at hand, or did you just want to demonstrate that you're yet another drive-by artist?

...

• Simon W. Moon

• 

So your revelation is that not all 'adherents' to a given religion actually adhere? Pretty sure everybody already knows that.

 

[LittleNipper]

And what do we do about this? Bomb bomb bomb Iran?

They (Iran) are developing ATOMIC weapons and their intent is to use them --- on who do you think? The one thing I can say is that ISRAEL retaliates, it doesn't pick the fight. It has always been the one who was attacked first. Various groups may say that the Israelis were taking land from that Palestinians; however, before, during WW II and afterwards, the area known as Palestine was a largely uninhabited wasteland. https://i2i.org/what-palestine-was-like-before-it-was-the-state-of-israel/

 

[Girlpower]

That's why Hitler admired islam. He saw it as a masculine and militaristic religion, which he believed would have suited the german people better than christianity.

Why did Hitler want to be a Muslim?

"It is our bad luck that we have chosen the wrong faith." This is what Hitler once complained to his architect, Albert Speer. "Why should we have Christianity, with its gentleness and wisdom?", he asked. For the Nazi leader, Islam was the "religion of men" (Männerreligion) - pure, too. The...

telegrafi.com

Today leftists luv and defend islam, even as gay people are being thrown off of buildings to their death.

Hitler did not admire Islam lol.