The problem abortion has caused!

[RAMOSS]

What do you mean? I don't hate liberals. Just liberalism...

Liberals are destroying this country (in my view) and I would love it if they would just listen.

But other than that, I am a good kind hearted happy camper.

Funny, it is my view that it is the conservatives that are destroying the country.

 

[RamFel]

Funny, it is my view that it is the conservatives that are destroying the country.

Well, when I look at same sex marriage, and abortion, and probably a multitude of other things they're doing, I get that same feeling about the left.

 

[RamFel]

Private school.

Yes. but only if the government doesn't tax YOU because your KID doesn't attend public school. That would be the right thing to do.

 

[year2late]

Well, when I look at same sex marriage, and abortion, and probably a multitude of other things they're doing, I get that same feeling about the left.

You think it is only people on left that get abortions or are gay?:lamo

 

[RamFel]

Then why do you believe that abortion is not about women and their own decision about what they think is best for them?
Why do you fall into the abortion is about getting rid of what you classify as "undesirables"?( your word, not mine)
No stranger has any influence on a pregnant woman. It is her choice whether or not to continue a pregnancy.
In the rare case where life or health is at risk , her doctor might recommend it but it still her decision in end so how can abortion be about anything or anyone other than the woman?

Genetic testing can predict some disabilities but not all.
There is no way to tell in advance a person will have learning disabilities, be fat, will lose a limb or will become disabled later in life ...that is fairy tale thinking.

At a certain point, I have to stop explaining it. It has been explained enough already and you already know why I feel animosity to the abortion process.

You know why abortion is wrong. But you want to support it just the same. But I cannot imagine anybody seriously telling me that he supports it for the women.Because that is just not believable.

 

[RAMOSS]

Yes. but only if the government doesn't tax YOU because your KID doesn't attend public school. That would be the right thing to do.

Absolutely not.. There is one thing I really don't want in this country, and that is ignorant kids.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yes. but only if the government doesn't tax YOU because your KID doesn't attend public school. That would be the right thing to do.

Why should people who take their kids out of public schools get a tax brake when people that don't have kids still have to pay?

If you are in favor of getting rid of public schools all together, than just say it. But if you think you should get special tax exempt status because you are too sensitive for public school, sorry kid.

 

[minnie616]

At a certain point, I have to stop explaining it. It has been explained enough already and you already know why I feel animosity to the abortion process.

You know why abortion is wrong. But you want to support it just the same. But I cannot imagine anybody seriously telling me that he supports it for the women.Because that is just not believable.

Elective abortion is about unwanted pregnancies.
Criminalizing/Banning elective abortion are not going to make unwanted pregnancies wanted.

If a woman does not want a pregnacy she will find a way to be rid of it even if it means putting her life at risk, trying to self abort, getting an illegal abortion or yes , even if means she might get caught and end up going to prison.

From: How I lost faith in the Pro life Movement:

The cause of abortions is unwanted pregnancies.
If you get rid of unwanted pregnancies the number of people who seek abortions will drop like a rock.
Simply banning abortion leaves women stuck with unwanted pregnancies.
Banning abortion doesn’t make those pregnancies wanted.
Many women in a situation like that will be willing to do anything to end that pregnancy,
even if it means trying to induce their own abortions (say, with a coat hanger or by drinking chemicals) or seeking out illegal abortions.
I realized that the real way to reduce abortion rates, then, was to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
And the way to do that is with birth control, which reduces the number of unwanted pregnancies by allowing women to control when and if they become pregnant.
I realized that the only world in which opposing birth control made any sense was one in which the goal was to control women’s sex lives. After all, birth control allows women to have sex without having to face the “consequences” of sex. But I had never opposed abortion in an effort to make women face the “consequences” of having sex.

I had always opposed abortion out of a desire to save the lives of unborn babies. As a child, I had been moved to tears by the image of millions of babies murdered by abortion each year

<SNIP>

I realized, then, that if the goal is to cut the abortion rate, the pro-life movement should be working to make sure that women can afford to have and care for children.
After all, a full three quarters of women who have abortions say they could not afford a child. If we found a way to offer more aid to parents, if we mandated things like paid maternity leave, subsidized childcare, and universal health insurance for pregnant women and for children, some women who would otherwise abort would almost certainly decide to carry their pregnancies to term.




<SNIP>

The reality is that so-called pro-life movement is not about saving babies.
It’s about regulating sex. That’s why they oppose birth control.
That’s why they want to ban abortion even though doing so will simply drive women to have dangerous back alley abortions.
That’s why they want to penalize women who take public assistance and then dare to have sex, leaving an exemption for those who become pregnant from rape.
It’s not about babies.
If it were about babies, they would be making access to birth control widespread and free
and creating a comprehensive social safety net so that no woman finds herself with a pregnancy she can’t afford.
They would be raising money for research on why half of all zygotes fail to implant and working to prevent miscarriages.
It’s not about babies. It’s about controlling women.
It’s about making sure they have consequences for having unapproved sex.
But I am very sure that there are other dupes out there.

If you’re sitting there reading this thinking “but I really am in it to save unborn babies,” I am sure you’re not alone.
After all, I was one of you.
If you are one who has been a part of the pro-life movement
because you really do believe in “saving unborn babies,” it’s time to cut your ties with the movement.
You may be an honest and kind-hearted person, but you’ve been had. You’ve been taken in.
It’s time to let go. ...

Read more: How I Lost Faith in the “Pro-Life” Movement

 

[minnie616]

No females in my family would do such a terrible thing.

From the following article:

Abortion Opponents Underestimate The Number Of Women They Know Who Had One


One in three U.S. women will have an abortion in her lifetime —
a statistic that’s familiar to the advocates working in the field of reproductive health,
but that might surprise many Americans who are less involved in the issue.
And this data point might be particularly surprising for the people who consider themselves to be pro-life.

That’s because people who are opposed to abortion are less likely to hear about the abortions
that the women in their life have had, compared to the people who describe themselves as pro-choice,
according to a new study published in the Sociological Science journal. Unsurprisingly,
that leads abortion opponents to underestimate the number of women they know who have had abortions.

Abortion Opponents Underestimate The Number Of Women They Know Who Had One | ThinkProgress

 

[Dragonfly]

1) - Sex ex in school, no. Who ever said that telling kids about the birds and the bees was the school's job?
2) - Yes, I can support that, but not by the US government. Private scientific and technological corporations should do it.
3) - Why and how? And why should we do that? Let the corporations handle the birth control and make a profit. They would do a better job anyway. That way they can compete and that would bring prices down. And it would create jobs too.
4) - When company's start to produce, then access to birth control will improve.,
5) - If the insurance companies want to that they can. But Uncle Sam needs to do it's job and let us do ours.

SEX ED = EDUCATION about sex.

Absolutely the schools job, and it needs to start earlier than when kids hit puberty.

Parents are fools, lazy, frightened, and close-minded about talking to their kids about sex. If you haven't learned that yet you truly are blind to reality.

So babies and prevention of pregnancy and everything you believe in or against is all about PROFITS for BIG CORPORATIONS. :roll:


Fabulous. You're as much a part of the problem as any abortion clinic anywhere.


I'm done here. You're a lost cause. Just know this. Thanks to you I'll never stop supporting a woman's right to having options and choices.
You frighten me enough to give me the resolve to always counter your vote for as long as I'm alive.
We will cancel each other out. Meaning your efforts will be for naught.

 

[Ocean007]

At first I too thought that RamFel really cared about the unborn and wanted to prevent abortions but I have come to realize his goal really is that he wants to punish women who have unwanted pregnancies and chose to have an early abortion.

He wants to punish these women and their born children more than he wants to prevent abortions by helping to stop unwanted pregnancies.

Totally agree. His hatred for women who either don't want to be mothers at all or who are done having kids and don't want any more comes across very clearly in his posts, to me anyway.

Personally, I think that no matter what the century we live in, there are some guys who truly believe in that 19th century (or earlier) "cult of true womanhood" nonsense; that a "true woman" (according to them) is one who lives to serve men and nothing more. Luckily for all women in the United States, we aren't forced to live by such regressive and oppressive rules. Sadly, women in some other countries aren't nearly as fortunate.

 

[Ocean007]

What do you mean? I don't hate liberals. Just liberalism...

Liberals are destroying this country (in my view) and I would love it if they would just listen.

"Just listen" to you, no doubt, and accept your regressive extremist beliefs as "facts." Nope, not a chance. Thank goodness that no one else has to do that either.

 

[RamFel]

Elective abortion is about unwanted pregnancies.
Criminalizing/Banning elective abortion are not going to make unwanted pregnancies wanted.

If a woman does not want a pregnacy she will find a way to be rid of it even if it means putting her life at risk, trying to self abort, getting an illegal abortion or yes , even if means she might get caught and end up going to prison.

From: How I lost faith in the Pro life Movement:

Read more: How I Lost Faith in the “Pro-Life” Movement

Thanks for the information.

 

[RamFel]

From the following article:




Abortion Opponents Underestimate The Number Of Women They Know Who Had One | ThinkProgress

Thanks again.

 

[RamFel]

You think it is only people on left that get abortions or are gay?:lamo

I have a gay nephew. I love him just the same. I don't approve but I just don't tell him that. Why fight?

And although we still get along, that doesn't make being gay right.

And it certainly doesn't make gay marriage right. And every time you tell me how wrong I am, it turns me more and more against it because I know what is right and what is wrong. That's why you can't win. Because it's so one sided. There is no right or wrong.

Only wrong.

 

[Removable Mind]

I have a gay nephew. I love him just the same. I don't approve but I just don't tell him that. Why fight?

And although we still get along, that doesn't make being gay right.

And it certainly doesn't make gay marriage right. And every time you tell me how wrong I am, it turns me more and more against it because I know what is right and what is wrong. That's why you can't win. Because it's so one sided. There is no right or wrong.

Only wrong.

But you want to put women in prison...right? I guess because gay men can't get pregnant that they are somehow a less of a sinner in your eyes.

You are right "in your own mind". It's called "opinion".

 

[RamFel]

SEX ED = EDUCATION about sex.

Absolutely the schools job, and it needs to start earlier than when kids hit puberty.

Parents are fools, lazy, frightened, and close-minded about talking to their kids about sex. If you haven't learned that yet you truly are blind to reality.

So babies and prevention of pregnancy and everything you believe in or against is all about PROFITS for BIG CORPORATIONS. :roll:


Fabulous. You're as much a part of the problem as any abortion clinic anywhere.


I'm done here. You're a lost cause. Just know this. Thanks to you I'll never stop supporting a woman's right to having options and choices.
You frighten me enough to give me the resolve to always counter your vote for as long as I'm alive.
We will cancel each other out. Meaning your efforts will be for naught.

The schools job? Since when? And tell me, do I have a say in this? Do you realize that you're telling me that the school system (hence the Feds, shadowed by eager liberals wringing their hands in anticipation) decides? I am very suspicious about why liberals want the responsibility so badly. Why do YOU want it so badly?

 

[RamFel]

But you want to put women in prison...right? I guess because gay men can't get pregnant that they are somehow a less of a sinner in your eyes.

You are right "in your own mind". It's called "opinion".

You think you know me well, but you don't know me.

 

[Removable Mind]

You think you know me well, but you don't know me.

I can only go by how you describe your beliefs and values.

 

[RamFel]

I can only go by how you describe your beliefs and values.

Well, that wasn't very good then.

 

[Removable Mind]

Well, that wasn't very good then.

So if you don't actually walk the walk...about your beliefs and values that you espouse to have...then you're just giving us lip service...or talking the talk. What other measure would I, or anyone else, have to go by in this environment?

 

[RamFel]

So if you don't actually walk the walk...about your beliefs and values that you espouse to have...then you're just giving us lip service...or talking the talk. What other measure would I, or anyone else, have to go by in this environment?

what is happening is that you are judging my behavior by your values. Right wingers, despite what you believe are not necessarily haters. If abortion is wrong, then it is wrong. If homosexuality is wrong, then it is wrong. You simply have to let your belief system adapt to a more realistic set of values.

 

[RamFel]

Totally agree. His hatred for women who either don't want to be mothers at all or who are done having kids and don't want any more comes across very clearly in his posts, to me anyway.

Personally, I think that no matter what the century we live in, there are some guys who truly believe in that 19th century (or earlier) "cult of true womanhood" nonsense; that a "true woman" (according to them) is one who lives to serve men and nothing more. Luckily for all women in the United States, we aren't forced to live by such regressive and oppressive rules. Sadly, women in some other countries aren't nearly as fortunate.

I don't really don't believe that what I believe in doesn't come across as clearly as you think. I'm really a very nice guy.

But I think that all you have to do is just don't use your values to judge me. Just open your eyes.

 

[Removable Mind]

what is happening is that you are judging my behavior by your values. Right wingers, despite what you believe are not necessarily haters. If abortion is wrong, then it is wrong. If homosexuality is wrong, then it is wrong. You simply have to let your belief system adapt to a more realistic set of values.

Ahhhhh...Ram...have you ever seen me inject any political affiliation philosophy as part of my posts?

Besides...I'm not talking about ALL Right lean folks. My comments were directly related to you...your beliefs and values that you've commented on frequent. I don't care about "everybody" else.

 

[D_NATURED]

Callousness
TRENDING: More college students support post-birth abortion

A trend seen by prolife activists that frequently engage college students on campuses nationwide is the growing acceptance of post-birth abortion, or killing the infant after he or she is born, campus prolife outreach leaders tell The College Fix.

Anecdotal evidence by leaders of prolife groups such as Created Equal and Survivors of the Abortion Holocaust said in interviews that not only do they see more college students willing to say they support post-birth abortion, but some students even suggest children up to 4 or 5-years-old can also be killed, because they are not yet “self aware.”

“We encounter people who think it is morally acceptable to kill babies after birth on a regular basis at almost every campus we visit,” said Mark Harrington, director of Created Equal. “While this viewpoint is still seen as shocking by most people, it is becoming increasingly popular.”

Campuses where the high school, college students, local activists and staff members of Created Equal have encountered this opinion include Purdue, University of Minnesota, and University of Central Florida. And at Ohio State earlier this year, the group captured a debate on video between one of its members and an older woman on campus who defended infanticide.

“This is the whole problem with devaluing human life at any stage—it will naturally grow to include other groups of humans; in this case, born humans as well as preborn humans,” Harrington said. “ talked with one young man at the University of Minnesota who thought it was alright to kill children if they were under the age of 5 years old, as he did not consider them persons until that age.”

Of course this post is rife with the sort of creative definitions that the holy-Christian-anti-woman movement is known for. "Post-birth-abortion" is one of the new ones, though, and I must admit I hadn't heard that one before. Abortion, by definition, cannot be "post-birth". That is ignorant on its face. The whole post is ignorant but that part especially.

I think what is happening is that the anti-woman movement cannot generate sufficient hysteria with facts about legal, safe abortions and must now expand their frightening fetal fixation to include non-fetuses. Thus, the same geniuses who call safe, legal abortions "infanticide" must now call ACTUAL infanticide post-birth-abortion. What a load of crap.

I wonder if the author is aware of how many "post-birth-abortions" have been committed by American servicemen upon Iraqi (and other) babies in our various foreign adventures, or how many post-birth-abortions get committed every day, vicariously, by our greed?

I do find one part of this encouraging, though, and that is that it implies our young people are considering a more utilitarian ethic to be guided by rather than foolishly clinging to the dogma of their parents.