The problem abortion has caused!

[minnie616]

So....when it comes to facts, science, and reason.....you're just

Agreed.

RamFel has been so blinded by his hatered he cannot accept any facts ,science or reason.
He wants to criminalize abortion not, just for providers, but he wants to punish women and mothers who have one and throw them in
prison.

He does not care that many children will no longer have their mother to care for them.
He does not care that many of those children will end Up in protective child services , and not be adoptable.

He dies not care it will cost taxpayers a lot more dollars to lock those those women up and to provide Foster care for those children.

He just wants to punish those women and their born children.

 

[RamFel]

Agreed.

RamFel has been so blinded by his hatered he cannot accept any facts ,science or reason.
He wants to criminalize abortion not, just for providers, but he wants to punish women and mothers who have one and throw them in
prison.

He does not care that many children will no longer have their mother to care for them.
He does not care that many of those children will end Up in protective child services , and not be adoptable.

He dies not care it will cost taxpayers a lot more dollars to lock those those women up and to provide Foster care for those children.

He just wants to punish those women and their born children.

I think not.

It's the same worn out, no longer effective same old same old that I hear.

 

[minnie616]

I think not.

It's the same worn out, no longer effective same old same old that I hear.

You admitted to me in another thread you don't care about the mothers who would go to prison.

Originally Posted by minnie616
Have you even thought about what criminalizing abortion would be like ?

Who will take of all the children while their mom is in jail?

Who will pay for their cost in foster care?

BTW : CPS are already way under budgeted and overburdened by large number of children currently in system.

Since over 60 percent of all women who have an abortion have at least one born child.

Not only will the jails be overflowing with mothers of young children our CPS will overflowing with lots of kids whose mothers are in jail instead doing the best they can to fed and take care of their kids.

Originally posted by RamFel

The feminists should have thought of that before they fought to pass it. Now they would try to use it against criminalization.

Very cunning of them...

Post #444

And post #460

Originally Posted by minnie616
No, the pro life people who want abortion criminalized should wake up to the fact that the US cannot afford to put women behind just because they choose to end an early pregnancy.

Careful what you wish for...

What happens to families when mom goes to jail? - Members - Idaho Press-Tribune - Empowering the Community

...

Now think how it will effect young children when they start questioning why their mom was arrested.

I didn't learn about abortion until I was 11 years and the Thalidomide babies being born missing limbs was on the news and a US pregnant woman who was a mother to 4 or children IIRC was fighting to get a therapeutic abortion because she taken the drug and was afraid.

She finally had to go Sweden to have her abortion and after the abortion she did she find out the fetus was deformed from the Thalidomide drug.

The fact the US would not allow one its citizens to have a therapeutic abortion back in 1961 helped me realize how wrong the
Abortion laws were and that women should be allowed a choice early in pregnancy.

It is the woman who knows her psychical health, her mental health, her finances,if she can care for an infant , and if she wishes to become a parent within the next several months.

It should be the woman's choice to continue a pregnancy or to seek an early abortion.

Originally posted by RamFel

Tsk tsk tsk. ... Hmmm hmmm... the things a girl will do to get rid of her baby. I hate to say this, but she shouldn't have to do all that. She brought all that upon herself. She gets to take the blame for her misfortune, but unfortunately so do her kids.

Link:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/197860-why-abortion-wrong-just-simple-w-875-1181-a-46.html

 

[Dragonfly]

My energies would be better spent taking care of the problem at the source.

The source???

That's exactly what I suggested.

Prevent unwanted pregnancies. No more abortions.

So you are completely supportive of, and totally in favor of:

1) improved and comprehensive sex-ed in schools
2) improving all methods of birth control through research and funding
3) making birth control more affordable
4) improving everyone's access to birth control
5) covering birth control under health care insurance


Right? You support all that completely in your crusade to end abortion. Right?

 

[minnie616]

Your energies would be far better spent on preventing unwanted and unplanned pregnancy.

Which means you should be working for better and more comprehensive sex education in schools, as well as more affordable and more accessible birth control for all.

You should also be working strongly for health insurance to cover birth control costs.

At first I too thought that RamFel really cared about the unborn and wanted to prevent abortions but I have come to realize his goal really is that he wants to punish women who have unwanted pregnancies and chose to have an early abortion.

He wants to punish these women and their born children more than he wants to prevent abortions by helping to stop unwanted pregnancies.

 

[Bodi]

Isn't a "post-birth abortion" a murder?

 

[RamFel]

The source???

That's exactly what I suggested.

Prevent unwanted pregnancies. No more abortions.

So you are completely supportive of, and totally in favor of:

1) improved and comprehensive sex-ed in schools
2) improving all methods of birth control through research and funding
3) making birth control more affordable
4) improving everyone's access to birth control
5) covering birth control under health care insurance


Right? You support all that completely in your crusade to end abortion. Right?

1) - Sex ex in school, no. Who ever said that telling kids about the birds and the bees was the school's job?
2) - Yes, I can support that, but not by the US government. Private scientific and technological corporations should do it.
3) - Why and how? And why should we do that? Let the corporations handle the birth control and make a profit. They would do a better job anyway. That way they can compete and that would bring prices down. And it would create jobs too.
4) - When company's start to produce, then access to birth control will improve.,
5) - If the insurance companies want to that they can. But Uncle Sam needs to do it's job and let us do ours.

 

[Removable Mind]

1) - Sex ex in school, no. Who ever said that telling kids about the birds and the bees was the school's job?
2) - Yes, I can support that, but not by the US government. Private scientific and technological corporations should do it.
3) - Why and how? And why should we do that? Let the corporations handle the birth control and make a profit. They would do a better job anyway. That way they can compete and that would bring prices down. And it would create jobs too.
4) - When company's start to produce, then access to birth control will improve.,
5) - If the insurance companies want to that they can. But Uncle Sam needs to do it's job and let us do ours.

People who don't have the balls to talk to their kids about sex...actually want to the schools to have "the chat" with their kids.

 

[Removable Mind]

Isn't a "post-birth abortion" a murder?

I don't think the term "post birth abortion" is even valid. I don't see how it could be. But if whoever has raised the point - killing anybody after their born would certainly be worthy of an investigation to determine if the killing was justifiable. If not, then I would guess it would be up to a jury to determine what "degree of murder" was committed.

 

[Scrabaholic]

People who don't have the balls to talk to their kids about sex...actually want to the schools to have "the chat" with their kids.

Studies have shown that states that have comprehensive sex ed have a lower teen pregnancy rate. I don't understand how people can be against it.

 

[Removable Mind]

Studies have shown that states that have comprehensive sex ed have a lower teen pregnancy rate. I don't understand how people can be against it.

I can only link such beliefs against sex ed to ignorance. That tells me that people who are willing to risk their children's future - because they can't muster the courage to openly discuss reproduction, which of course require the discussion about sex. And the irony is that the same people apparently can't bear others teaching their kids what they can't bring themselves to do.

Or...some religions don't think it's appropriate for schools to educate kids about sex.

But as I stated in my previous post. A lot of people who have problems discussing sex and reproduction are happy that there is a curriculum that offers the information to their kids.


The link below is dated in Oct 1994, which is titled "The Failure of Sex Ed". It's kind of long...but in reading it...it just make one ask the question - WTF is the matter with supposedly intelligent human beings?

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/politics/family/failure.htm

 

[RamFel]

You admitted to me in another thread you don't care about the mothers who would go to prison.





Post #444

And post #460




Link:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/197860-why-abortion-wrong-just-simple-w-875-1181-a-46.html

Yes, very nice. But it has nothing to do with women. There's a reason why abortion exists. Not because women have babies, and want to get rid of them, but because liberals have figured out that the can get rid of a lot of people who they would love to no longer have around. undesirables. Fat and ugly, limpers and stutterers, people who have hunch backs or deformities such as those with one arm, amputated limbs or just about anybody that is different and make you feel s. Not like us. Simple people who are slow, and don't deserve to live because they're useless or who are argumentative and cause trouble (like me).

What bothers me about debating with liberals is they think they're never wrong. When I first heard about this new story concerning the new way of liberal thinking that liberals have come up with and I come on and start to talk about it, it doesn't take then long to attempt take it apart in an effort to discredit the post, the poster and anybody else who disagrees with them. I've been through the wringer with a lot of you but what I would like to see is somebody from the left humble him/herself and admit that they are wrong. On just one topic. Anything at all! Just to hear and see that I am debating people and not Gods, or geniuses.

Because you are wrong on many things.

 

[RamFel]

People who don't have the balls to talk to their kids about sex...actually want to the schools to have "the chat" with their kids.

But I don't.

 

[minnie616]

Yes, very nice. But it has nothing to do with women. There's a reason why abortion exists. Not because women have babies, and want to get rid of them, but because liberals have figured out that the can get rid of a lot of people who they would love to no longer have around. undesirables. Fat and ugly, limpers and stutterers, people who have hunch backs or deformities such as those with one arm, amputated limbs or just about anybody that is different and make you feel s. Not like us. Simple people who are slow, and don't deserve to live because they're useless or who are argumentative and cause trouble (like ...

Do you really think there are no fat or disabled liberals.
Do you think none of us have family members whom we love dearly who were born with deformities or who have learning disabilities?

You are so blinded by your hatred of liberals that you think abortion is some kind of step to getting rid of some our most beloved and gifted people.

I just cannot believe it.

Did you know that Einstien, Thomas Edison, General Patton, Tom Cruise, and Walt Disney all had dyslexia or other leaning disabilities.

My son in law was born with a club arm and hand.
My son and I have dyslexia.
I have a couple of dear cousins who have fragile X which causes cognitive disabilities.

My grandson has moter skill disabilities due to the HELLP syndrome my daughter had during her pregnancy which almost caused the deaths of both my daughter and my grandson.

Yeah... Liberals want to rid the world of the most desirable, most loving people we hold near and dear to us.

Now tell me another made up fairy tale .

 

[minnie616]

?.. I've been through the wringer with a lot of you but what I would like to see is somebody from the left humble him/herself and admit that they are wrong. On just one topic. Anything at all! Just to hear and see that I am debating people and not Gods, or geniuses.

Because you are wrong on many things.

FYI:

I have admitted many times on this very forum that I was wrong about one think or another.

 

[minnie616]

But I don't.

Then you had the right to opt out of it but I hope you or your wife talked them since if you opt of schools giving sex ed the teens will hear misinformation from their peers.

 

[RAMOSS]

The source???

That's exactly what I suggested.

Prevent unwanted pregnancies. No more abortions.

So you are completely supportive of, and totally in favor of:

1) improved and comprehensive sex-ed in schools
2) improving all methods of birth control through research and funding
3) making birth control more affordable
4) improving everyone's access to birth control
5) covering birth control under health care insurance


Right? You support all that completely in your crusade to end abortion. Right?

I will disagree with one section. There always will be abortions because of medical issues. However, if better prenatal care, and better prepregnancy health options are available though health care, and better access to fresh food rather than boxed, preprocessed food was available to the poor, you would get less health issues of the fetus, or of the mother.

 

[RamFel]

Do you really think there are no fat or disabled liberals.
Do you think none of us have family members whom we love dearly who were born with deformities or who have learning disabilities?

You are so blinded by your hatred of liberals that you think abortion is some kind of step to getting rid of some our most beloved and gifted people.

I just cannot believe it.

Did you know that Einstien, Thomas Edison, General Patton, Tom Cruise, and Walt Disney all had dyslexia or other leaning disabilities.

My son in law was born with a club arm and hand.
My son and I have dyslexia.
I have a couple of dear cousins who have fragile X which causes cognitive disabilities.

My grandson has moter skill disabilities due to the HELLP syndrome my daughter had during her pregnancy which almost caused the deaths of both my daughter and my grandson.

Yeah... Liberals want to rid the world of the most desirable, most loving people we hold near and dear to us.

Now tell me another made up fairy tale .

What do you mean? I don't hate liberals. Just liberalism...

Liberals are destroying this country (in my view) and I would love it if they would just listen.

But other than that, I am a good kind hearted happy camper.

 

[RamFel]

Isn't a "post-birth abortion" a murder?

actually, it's all really murder. But we humans have legalized it so although there are those that will deny it, the deaths just makes fibbers out of them.

 

[Removable Mind]

But I don't.

So, you're in favor of kids wind up doing like a lot of kids and figure it out on their own?

Do you fundamental disagree with the point I made in my post?

Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
People who don't have the balls to talk to their kids about sex...actually want to the schools to have "the chat" with their kids.

 

[CLAX1911]

But I don't.

Private school.

 

[minnie616]

What do you mean? I don't hate liberals. Just liberalism...

Liberals are destroying this country (in my view) and I would love it if they would just listen.

But other than that, I am a good kind hearted happy camper.

Then why do you believe that abortion is not about women and their own decision about what they think is best for them?
Why do you fall into the abortion is about getting rid of what you classify as "undesirables"?( your word, not mine)
No stranger has any influence on a pregnant woman. It is her choice whether or not to continue a pregnancy.
In the rare case where life or health is at risk , her doctor might recommend it but it still her decision in end so how can abortion be about anything or anyone other than the woman?

Genetic testing can predict some disabilities but not all.
There is no way to tell in advance a person will have learning disabilities, be fat, will lose a limb or will become disabled later in life ...that is fairy tale thinking.

 

[Removable Mind]

actually, it's all really murder. But we humans have legalized it so although there are those that will deny it, the deaths just makes fibbers out of them.

Actually, no, its all NOT REALLY MURDER... you make this claim up to suit your beliefs. And there's no sin you subscribing to a certain belief. But you want to see young girls to women...imprisoned for having an abortion merely because its against your beliefs.

I have way more a problem with such a profoundly autocratic belief that you have, which would impact so many more lives - than the numbers of unborn that is aborted.

What's so incredible about your authoritarian belief..you wouldn't have a clue as to how many abortions were ever performed if wasn't for government publishing statistics. It's people who believe as you do that makes me want to crusade to make it unlawful for government to publish such information.

It must be really hard on you having to co-exist among all of the rest of us sinners whom you don't approve of our behaviors. How can you live in such an evil world?

Every once in a while. I run into special people of faith that are a living testament to their faith. They are a living example of their beliefs and faith...and they never have to say a word. They don't talk the talk....they walk the walk. And they never have to throw a single stone. Why? Because it's not their place - because a part of the tenets of their faith tells them they ain't the judge.

 

[year2late]

Y2L,

I welcome your views, but I have my own based on what I see and understand. You are welcome to your views, and I will continue to post my views and there's not much that you can do.

Think what you want. But the recent events of Melissa Harris-Perry's beliefs, Dr. Kermit Gossnell's murder trial and conviction, The answers given by Planned Parenthood (Alisa LaPoit Snow) during questioning, and the ultra left-wing college professors (who have the ears and the rapt attention of our university students) teaching nonsense and on and on, but these events have opened my eyes.

Thank you.

I will give you a hint about Gosnell. Ask the prochoicers on this thread if they agree with his convictions of murder. I do not recall any of them having any issue with his murder conviction.

And what you see and understand is from a very narrow point of view. Your view is so narrow you actually WANT the other side to believe things they do not- just to further your self-righteous crusade.

 

[Removable Mind]

What do you mean? I don't hate liberals. Just liberalism...

Liberals are destroying this country (in my view) and I would love it if they would just listen.

But other than that, I am a good kind hearted happy camper.

It's hilarious to see people claim: I don't hate liberals - just liberalism. I don't hate homo's just homosexual behaviors. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. And I have some swamp land in Arizona to sell ya.