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The Price Of Justice - for some

specklebang

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This crooked bastard destroyed thousands of lives, wiping out their employees and investors alike. But gee, using his stolen money he was able to buy a discount on his punishment.

This is proof that justice is bought and sold. If you sold some LSD to a cop, you'd get 25 years and you wouldn't get a 10 year discount. But here is the rich buying their way through the system.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/06...ex-enron-ceo-skilling-cut-by-10-years-2/?_r=0
The prison sentence of Jeffrey K. Skilling, the former chief executive of Enron who spearheaded the pervasive fraud that destroyed the energy company, was reduced by 10 years on Friday after a federal judge approved a deal between his lawyers and prosecutors
Must be nice, huh? Think Bush will send a limo for him when he gets out?
 

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Is it just people that deal in money that you hate getting out early or are you just as pissed when some rapist/murderer gets let go early for good behavior?
 

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This crooked bastard destroyed thousands of lives, wiping out their employees and investors alike. But gee, using his stolen money he was able to buy a discount on his punishment.

This is proof that justice is bought and sold. If you sold some LSD to a cop, you'd get 25 years and you wouldn't get a 10 year discount. But here is the rich buying their way through the system.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/06...ex-enron-ceo-skilling-cut-by-10-years-2/?_r=0


Must be nice, huh? Think Bush will send a limo for him when he gets out?
It's all for the corporate establishment and the protection of the new aristocracy. This is old hat. Republocrats get us exactly this situation, there is no surprise.
 

specklebang

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No, I think we should release all the rapists and murderers and keep the cells open for the rich people, the "job creators".



Is it just people that deal in money that you hate getting out early or are you just as pissed when some rapist/murderer gets let go early for good behavior?
 

specklebang

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Free Bernie Madoff! imgres.jpeg




It's all for the corporate establishment and the protection of the new aristocracy. This is old hat. Republocrats get us exactly this situation, there is no surprise.
 

Ikari

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Wouldn't be surprised. In fact, I was surprised that he was brought to justice; but it was just too large a ponzi scheme that was too well known and even caught up a few of the aristocrat's protected pets. Can you imagine the jail population if we went after all these scheming bastards?
 

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Joseph Milanowski - most victims - retirees. Sentence 11 years. (I'm a victim of this guy - USA Capital).
Jeff Skilling - most victims - employees. Sentence 24 years discounted to 14 years.
Bernie Madoff - most victims - millionaires. Life in prison without parole.

If we have enough room in prison for dope sellers, we have enough room for the scum/scam artists. Notice that the richer the victim, the longer the sentence.




Wouldn't be surprised. In fact, I was surprised that he was brought to justice; but it was just too large a ponzi scheme that was too well known and even caught up a few of the aristocrat's protected pets. Can you imagine the jail population if we went after all these scheming bastards?
 

Ikari

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Joseph Milanowski - most victims - retirees. Sentence 11 years. (I'm a victim of this guy - USA Capital).
Jeff Skilling - most victims - employees. Sentence 24 years discounted to 14 years.
Bernie Madoff - most victims - millionaires. Life in prison without parole.

If we have enough room in prison for dope sellers, we have enough room for the scum/scam artists. Notice that the richer the victim, the longer the sentence.
That's a very interesting fact you point out. Protection of the aristocracy is a primary goal of our current corporate government.

I'd rather throw the dope dealers out and throw thieves into jail.
 

specklebang

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Yes. Exactly. That might upset Mr. Truckstop but you and I agree completely on this. We are indeed an Oligarchy and denying that is just plain silly. But for some reason, the Oligarchs have found support not just from their fellow Royalty, but from a population of ignoramuses that defend them and demand lower taxes for them. They have privilege, we have rules.

In a country where 80% of the population believes in angels, I shouldn't be too surprised.

Now, if I can just talk you into getting a cat......;):kitty::)

That's a very interesting fact you point out. Protection of the aristocracy is a primary goal of our current corporate government.

I'd rather throw the dope dealers out and throw thieves into jail.
 

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Yes. Exactly. That might upset Mr. Truckstop but you and I agree completely on this. We are indeed an Oligarchy and denying that is just plain silly. But for some reason, the Oligarchs have found support not just from their fellow Royalty, but from a population of ignoramuses that defend them and demand lower taxes for them. They have privilege, we have rules.

In a country where 80% of the population believes in angels, I shouldn't be too surprised.

Now, if I can just talk you into getting a cat......;):kitty::)

Not sure how we went from white collar crime to bashing religion and lower taxes. I was just curious if a murderer can do something to get let out early, is it that crazy that a con man could? If we give the same sentence to someone who steals from someone as someone that kills someone why not just kill the people you are stealing from. Everyone I know would rather lose money than life. Seems dumb that the sentences would be even close to similar.

By the way, I would like to keep locking up drug dealers over thieves. I have lost friends due to drug dealers. Never to a con man.
 

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We are indeed an Oligarchy and denying that is just plain silly. But for some reason, the Oligarchs have found support not just from their fellow Royalty, but from a population of ignoramuses that defend them and demand lower taxes for them. They have privilege, we have rules.

In a country where 80% of the population believes in angels, I shouldn't be too surprised.

Now, if I can just talk you into getting a cat......;):kitty::)
By the way, if we are and oligarchy why do these people go to jail in the first place? That would make anyone calling it an oligarchy an idiot by default. We do deserve the idiots that get elected. Look at the idiots voting.
 

specklebang

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Lets make sure we are discussing the same thing:
Oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία (oligarkhía); from ὀλίγος (olígos), meaning "few", and ἄρχω (arkho), meaning "to rule or to command")[1][2][3] is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people. These people could be distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, education, corporate, or military control.

So, it only has a little to do with who we vote for. ...and only some people are idiots and that depends on POV which is entirely subjective. An oligarchy doesn't really have anything to do with who goes to jail UNLESS it is one of the Oligarchs or has affected directly one of the Oligarchs.

I'll respectfully point out that no drug dealer killed your friends. They killed themselves. Just as a gun does not cause a suicide, drugs kill nobody unless they use them excessively or improperly. OTOH, a thief harms you without your consent or participation.

Our justice system is very complex and often flawed.

I didn't mean to bring religion into this. I used belief in angels as an example of poples willingness to believe things that aren't exactly real.


Not sure how we went from white collar crime to bashing religion and lower taxes. I was just curious if a murderer can do something to get let out early, is it that crazy that a con man could? If we give the same sentence to someone who steals from someone as someone that kills someone why not just kill the people you are stealing from. Everyone I know would rather lose money than life. Seems dumb that the sentences would be even close to similar.

By the way, I would like to keep locking up drug dealers over thieves. I have lost friends due to drug dealers. Never to a con man.
By the way, if we are and oligarchy why do these people go to jail in the first place? That would make anyone calling it an oligarchy an idiot by default. We do deserve the idiots that get elected. Look at the idiots voting.
 

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Lets make sure we are discussing the same thing:
Oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία (oligarkhía); from ὀλίγος (olígos), meaning "few", and ἄρχω (arkho), meaning "to rule or to command")[1][2][3] is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people. These people could be distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, education, corporate, or military control.

So, it only has a little to do with who we vote for. ...and only some people are idiots and that depends on POV which is entirely subjective. An oligarchy doesn't really have anything to do with who goes to jail UNLESS it is one of the Oligarchs or has affected directly one of the Oligarchs.

I'll respectfully point out that no drug dealer killed your friends. They killed themselves. Just as a gun does not cause a suicide, drugs kill nobody unless they use them excessively or improperly. OTOH, a thief harms you without your consent or participation.

Our justice system is very complex and often flawed.

I didn't mean to bring religion into this. I used belief in angels as an example of poples willingness to believe things that aren't exactly real.
While I find myself agreeing with you a lot, I thought you were implying that his early release was due to his inclusion in some oligarchy. Seemed odd that someone running the show would be imprisoned at all given the fact they supposedly rule over us and have the power.

And I would respectfully point out that the drug dealer that kicked in the door of the wrong apartment and shot my friends did indeed kill them. I understand what you were thinking, but I would guess that there are several instances where the drug dealer did do the killing. And just because I know no one that has been killed by a con man doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that it hasn't happened to me.
 

specklebang

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Sorry. Misunderstood the drug dealer thing. To me, murder is murder and I'm not OK with murder.

These massive frauds do take lives. Suicide is a viable option when you've lost everything to some con artist and you are too old to start over. I empathize because I've been a victim although fortunately I didn't lose everything.

I should be emotionally invested in the Skilling case but if I were a victim of his, I'd be pretty upset that he's getting out because he used his own ill gotten gains to manipulate the system while most people do serve their sentences.

Now that we are in agreement, I hope you have a cat. Cat people are wiser than dog people you know.:2dance:=0 :kitty: =+100.





While I find myself agreeing with you a lot, I thought you were implying that his early release was due to his inclusion in some oligarchy. Seemed odd that someone running the show would be imprisoned at all given the fact they supposedly rule over us and have the power.

And I would respectfully point out that the drug dealer that kicked in the door of the wrong apartment and shot my friends did indeed kill them. I understand what you were thinking, but I would guess that there are several instances where the drug dealer did do the killing. And just because I know no one that has been killed by a con man doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that it hasn't happened to me.
 

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I think folks need to read up on the case before we go off on tangents about oligarchies. Here's the wiki. Being rich didn't help him in his original trial, in fact it worked against him, even the liberal justices on the SCOTUS noted that upon review.

The 10 year reduction in sentence probably came as a result of prosecutor negotiatons to end the appeals. Prosecutors make these sorts of deals all the time with poor folks too. Anyone who can make a little noise and potentially tie up the prosecutor's office beyond the win. He's not going to be a young man when he gets out (he'll be 74).

Where his wealth did help him was in the quality of his representation. To get that sort of representation you generally have to be either rich or poor with a cause celeb.

The problem I have with the prosecution of these sort of crimes is that they let the thief keep a portion of the wealth. They let them keep their multi-million dollar home and other assets. He should owe every cent he's ever accumulated and add in a few million just in case he gets out and makes more.
 

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Currently down to just one from 3. :( We do have the 2 dogs though. They are good to point and laugh at sometimes.

I think that part of the problem is that most DON"T serve their sentences. Personally I think we should get away from all the loopholes and crap and if you are sentenced for 20 you do 20. Take some of the politicking and who you know, or get to, out of it. And that goes for everything from fraud to murder, set the sentence and stick with it. A child molester that can get out early for good behavior is stupid, its punishment for what you did, I could care less how you act during the punishment. Your behavior outside the walls is what you obviously need work on not your behavior while men with guns watch your every move.
 
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