The price of gas depends on ???

[Matt Foley]

Yeah that's true but I would rather live in my mentality than your's .

At least in my mentality we are trying to push forward.
Your mentality, you would have scientific advancement stand in concrete, and yelling slow down while they don't move.eace

You know wishing for something doesn't make it so Dorothy.

 

[Matt Foley]

Which half does America buy?lol, trick question.eace

LOL LOL. Actually America produces half the oil it consumes, lol lol, so which half are you refering to? lol lol lol

 

[Matt Foley]

Huh? I wasn't talking about tractor trailer tankers ,I was talking about cargo tanker ships.

Cargo ships probably have a 1:1000 ratio or more. For every 1,000 gallons of fuel moved 10,000 miles, it takes 1 gallon.

 

[Matt Foley]

They way America is going now a 1,000 years in the future, the advance technological stuff would be a new improved iphone, or maybe a droid phone or wonder of wonders a new improved droid phone. loleace

You all have such an entitlement mentality when it comes to science. Probably star trek's fault.

 

[Matt Foley]

Become the world's public enemy number one for short term gains (the American way)? Or, develop alternatives to burning declining affordable fossil fuel supplies? It appears, China was smart enough to choose the latter.

You can't just flip a switch and "develop alternatives". This isn't a game of Civilization II where you adjust sliders to increase science funding and invent stuff.

 

[Matt Foley]

The status quo dependent on fossil fuel burning for transportation is indeed unsustainable. We've known that for decades but sat on our ass and did nothing about it, so I have little patience with those who cry about gas prices now.

No, the status quo is blowing billions on Green Crap, and Globalized Cannibal Capitalism. YOU are the status quo. You *points at you*

*points at you again*

 

[Matt Foley]

Let's bring those numbers up to date, shall we, instead of relying on out of date information:
US total solar 2011: 4.0 GW
China total solar 2011: 3.1 GW

In other words, they've installed a hell of a lot more solar than we have in the past four years.

Hey Mathematical genius...

Solar power in the People's Republic of China is a growing industry. China has over 400 photovoltaic (PV) companies. In 2007 China produced 1.7 GW of solar panel capacity, nearly half of the world production of 3.8 GW, although 99% was exported.

....those are exports. Yeaaaah. China does not spend their own tax dollars on Green Crap, they just manufacture the stuff for the idiots that do (that's us and europe). Just like China manufactures BARNEY TOYS for American rugrats, it doesn't mean the Chinese government is investing in BARNEY TOYS.

 

[Matt Foley]

Instead of being delusional and decadent like the Greenheaded Americans, China should make its military more than pay for itself by seizing the Islamic price-gouging Indonesian oil.

Don't give them any ideas.

 

[Matt Foley]

Greedheads and Greenheads are grinding us into the gutter.

Actually the Cannibal Capitalists are doing more damage, but in the future maybe the Green Flagellants can take the title for biggest dickheads.

 

[Matt Foley]

I don't. I'm saying don't even use it. How does stopping the use of something make it more expensive?

Wouldn't that push down demand and make it cheaper? [/rhetorical question]

Trying to get you Greens to admit they are happy when gasoline is more expensive, is like trying to get a Libertarian to admit they are really Anarchists.

 

[Catawba]

You can't just flip a switch and "develop alternatives". This isn't a game of Civilization II where you adjust sliders to increase science funding and invent stuff.

You need to read up on government funded research and what it has helped develop throughout history.

Why The Government Needs To Invest In Innovation

"fundamental innovations that can result in decades-long economic expansion need research funding for years in order to evolve – and even after a first successful prototype, 10 to 15 more years to enter the marketplace. This time line is inherent to fundamental innovation, even when done optimally, for the process is not linear from research to development to product in the market. Efficient innovation is a highly iterative process, in which innovators repeatedly cycle through many factors in the areas of Technology, Market and Implementation – until the right pieces come together. As technology is shaped and prodded over this timeline, advantages and benefits change; meanwhile, markets change and other new technologies appear. For corporations in global competition, it is unlikely that a research investment with a 15 or 20 year horizon will result in a return for that specific organization. However, for a government, the exact organization or sector through which the innovation arrives is irrelevant for realizing its economic returns. President Obama captured this when he said: “Our free enterprise system is what drives innovation. But because it’s not always profitable for companies to invest in basic research, throughout our history, our government has provided cutting-edge scientists and inventors with the support that they need.” A healthy national innovation pipeline:

Must rely on the nation to invest in early innovative research because free-market actors cannot do so profitably by themselves;
Must rely on the free-market to competitively finish the later part of the innovation process because the nation cannot realize its return on research investment otherwise
The two sides of the innovation system are necessarily co-dependent, and such clarity should eliminate the extreme options that are dominating the national discourse."

Why The Government Needs To Invest In Innovation - Forbes

 

[MoSurveyor]

Hey Mathematical genius...

Solar power in the People's Republic of China is a growing industry. China has over 400 photovoltaic (PV) companies. In 2007 China produced 1.7 GW of solar panel capacity, nearly half of the world production of 3.8 GW, although 99% was exported.

....those are exports. Yeaaaah. China does not spend their own tax dollars on Green Crap, they just manufacture the stuff for the idiots that do (that's us and europe). [...]

A little short on reading comprehension are we???

Like I said 2011, not your out-dated 2007 information. China's been busy installing solar for their own use.

As of 2011, about 3.1 GW of photovoltaics contribute towards power generation in China.

For more 2011 information refer back to post #1335, where the above quote is also referenced.

 

[Catawba]

No, the status quo is blowing billions on Green Crap, and Globalized Cannibal Capitalism. YOU are the status quo. You *points at you*

*points at you again*

Thanks for the Luddite perspective!:2wave:

 

[Matt Foley]

Thanks for the Luddite perspective!:2wave:

Forcing the poor and middle class to ride bicycles cause you made gasoline too expensive is Luddite.

 

[Matt Foley]

A little short on reading comprehension are we???

Like I said 2011, not your out-dated 2007 information. China's been busy installing solar for their own use.

For more 2011 information refer back to post #1335, where the above quote is also referenced.

Nope, that's the photolviacs they sell to the 1st world.

 

[Matt Foley]

You need to read up on government funded research and what it has helped develop throughout history.

Why The Government Needs To Invest In Innovation

"fundamental innovations that can result in decades-long economic expansion need research funding for years in order to evolve – and even after a first successful prototype, 10 to 15 more years to enter the marketplace. This time line is inherent to fundamental innovation, even when done optimally, for the process is not linear from research to development to product in the market. Efficient innovation is a highly iterative process, in which innovators repeatedly cycle through many factors in the areas of Technology, Market and Implementation – until the right pieces come together. As technology is shaped and prodded over this timeline, advantages and benefits change; meanwhile, markets change and other new technologies appear. For corporations in global competition, it is unlikely that a research investment with a 15 or 20 year horizon will result in a return for that specific organization. However, for a government, the exact organization or sector through which the innovation arrives is irrelevant for realizing its economic returns. President Obama captured this when he said: “Our free enterprise system is what drives innovation. But because it’s not always profitable for companies to invest in basic research, throughout our history, our government has provided cutting-edge scientists and inventors with the support that they need.” A healthy national innovation pipeline:

Must rely on the nation to invest in early innovative research because free-market actors cannot do so profitably by themselves;
Must rely on the free-market to competitively finish the later part of the innovation process because the nation cannot realize its return on research investment otherwise
The two sides of the innovation system are necessarily co-dependent, and such clarity should eliminate the extreme options that are dominating the national discourse."

Why The Government Needs To Invest In Innovation - Forbes

One of my favorite Civ II tunes.

 

[EagleAye]

Nope, that's the photolviacs they sell to the 1st world.

Got links to back that up? I can guarantee you can't.

Meanwhile, I do have links...

China Becomes Number 1 in Wind Installation

Beijing, 15.01.2011

According to new data released today the Chinese Renewable Energy Industries Association (CREIA), China installed 16 GW of new wind power capacity in 2010, bringing its total capacity to 41.8 GW – thus making it the largest wind-installation country in the world. However,to translate these installations into massive utilization, serious challenges such as grid access difficulties must be immediately and effectively tackled.

China Becomes Number 1 in Wind Installation - REEEP - The Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency Partnership

China is prepared to do more with Wind (in China):

China Installing Wind-power Capacity As Fast As It Can

Beijing, China -- China is on track to install as much as 18 GWs of wind-power capacity this year as the world's second-biggest economy continues to diversify its energy resources, according to officials at Chinese Renewable Energy Industry Association
[...]
If all goes well, the country will end 2011 with a total of 58 GWs of installed capacity, moving ahead with plans to install as much as 150-230 GWs over the next decade. China already has the world's largest installed wind capacity.

The new capacity will be state built and financed, like much else in China. According to observers, five national power companies - China Power Investment Group, Guodian, Datant, Huanent and Huadian will build the largest wind farms. So far, the largest of them is Datant's 400 MW farm in the Jiling province.

China Installing Wind-power Capacity As Fast As It Can | Renewable Energy News Article
I suppose you'll try to claim "Jiling province" is actually in Mississippi, right? Otherwise, you'll have to admit these installations are happening in China.

China is prepared to do more with solar (in China):

According to Green Tech Media, in an interview with Dr. Peng Fang, the CEO of vertically integrated solar giant JA Solar Holdings, China is set to install anywhere from 4 gigawatts to 8 gigawatts of photovoltaic panels in China throughout 2011, up from the 2 gigawatts it installed in 2011.

Germany, China, and US Could Install Record Amount of Solar in 2012 - CleanTechnica

I hate being outperformed by China. It's embarassing. But as long as we have Luddites and Foleys to block American production and advancement, we'll have to let our competitors win.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Nope, that's the photolviacs they sell to the 1st world.

Nope that's what they've installed at home. I posted the link, sorry you're having trouble reading it.

 

[MoSurveyor]

I hate being outperformed by China. It's embarassing. But as long as we have Luddites and Foleys to block American production and advancement, we'll have to let our competitors win.

It's sad those Dummies in DC would let this happen - and they'll no doubt continue to let it happen the short-sighted A-holes ...

 

[washunut]

You need to read up on government funded research and what it has helped develop throughout history.

Why The Government Needs To Invest In Innovation

"fundamental innovations that can result in decades-long economic expansion need research funding for years in order to evolve – and even after a first successful prototype, 10 to 15 more years to enter the marketplace. This time line is inherent to fundamental innovation, even when done optimally, for the process is not linear from research to development to product in the market. Efficient innovation is a highly iterative process, in which innovators repeatedly cycle through many factors in the areas of Technology, Market and Implementation – until the right pieces come together. As technology is shaped and prodded over this timeline, advantages and benefits change; meanwhile, markets change and other new technologies appear. For corporations in global competition, it is unlikely that a research investment with a 15 or 20 year horizon will result in a return for that specific organization. However, for a government, the exact organization or sector through which the innovation arrives is irrelevant for realizing its economic returns. President Obama captured this when he said: “Our free enterprise system is what drives innovation. But because it’s not always profitable for companies to invest in basic research, throughout our history, our government has provided cutting-edge scientists and inventors with the support that they need.” A healthy national innovation pipeline:

Must rely on the nation to invest in early innovative research because free-market actors cannot do so profitably by themselves;
Must rely on the free-market to competitively finish the later part of the innovation process because the nation cannot realize its return on research investment otherwise
The two sides of the innovation system are necessarily co-dependent, and such clarity should eliminate the extreme options that are dominating the national discourse."

Why The Government Needs To Invest In Innovation - Forbes

First let me say that I agree that there is a very important role in the government investing in basic research and some of our biggest breakthroughs came from it.

That being said, I do disagree with the way this government is spending money on future fuels etc. Investing in basic research would gave been giving grants to a bunch of scientists as an example to explore ways to make solar panels more efficient in the percent of energy they can capture. Finding different potential fuels like the algie experiment people like to laugh at. We need to understand when we fund basic research like this most projects will fail, they will take a long time to being commercially successful but over time we have a good track record of hitting some home runs. That is not was done when we fund a company whose purpose was not to do basic research but to try and compete in the current market space,

This is what I think is the basic flaw of this administration's efforts. Who cares if China is the biggest supplier of a product that will be obsolete in 10 years. We should help find the real answers of the future and only then help companies bring them to market.

 

[Catawba]

Forcing the poor and middle class to ride bicycles cause you made gasoline too expensive is Luddite.

I now control the supply and demand of oil on the world market??? Thirty years of short-sighted thinking like yours is what left us facing high energy costs without alternatives.

 

[Catawba]

First let me say that I agree that there is a very important role in the government investing in basic research and some of our biggest breakthroughs came from it.

That being said, I do disagree with the way this government is spending money on future fuels etc. Investing in basic research would gave been giving grants to a bunch of scientists as an example to explore ways to make solar panels more efficient in the percent of energy they can capture. Finding different potential fuels like the algie experiment people like to laugh at. We need to understand when we fund basic research like this most projects will fail, they will take a long time to being commercially successful but over time we have a good track record of hitting some home runs. That is not was done when we fund a company whose purpose was not to do basic research but to try and compete in the current market space,

This is what I think is the basic flaw of this administration's efforts. Who cares if China is the biggest supplier of a product that will be obsolete in 10 years. We should help find the real answers of the future and only then help companies bring them to market.

I disagree. Since the President also has a pressing need to encourage the increase of manufacturing jobs. It made sense to do in an area that also helps us reduce our dependence on the high cost of fossil fuels, including the military cost to keep the oil flowing from the middle east. The Iraq war alone cost us $2 trillion dollars!

The amount provided to encourage manufacturing just a small part of the the overall investment in alternative energy and conservation as noted here:

Federal Stimulus Provides Major Funding for Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation

 

[presluc]

The business tyranny owns academic science, the Goose that Lays the Golden Eggheads. However, the superior minds we need can't develop under such slavish conditions, all of which are designed to make them submissive to the businessmen's 100% ownership of corporate patents. Subservient to these parasites, the eggheads rot in their shells.[/QUOTE

Like I said American intellectuals would never be smart enough or even take the risk at finding an alternative fuel, it would be too HARD for them.
What business tyranny owned Bill gates?eace

 

[presluc]

Interesting reading from the site, "How stuff works." Seems perhaps an answer to the OP.




HowStuffWorks "Gas Price Breakdown"

Don't know about the other parts of the country, but gas hit 4.19 a gallon in Michigan.eace

 

[presluc]

You know wishing for something doesn't make it so Dorothy.

Names preslluc, but you are right about one thing wishing doesn't make it so, scarecrow.eace