The Poor Are the Engine of Prosperity

[TurtleDude]

We have a higher suicide rate

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

we aren't a welfare paradise though

 

[winston53660]

we aren't a welfare paradise though

So you are suggesting we become one to lower the suicide rate:lamo

 

[upsideguy]

Bring back unions...so union leadership could make more money and dump more into their pockets and political campaigns?

Perhaps a better track would be to reinvigorate the countries industrial base. Starting with 'the unions'....thats a good way to ensure that never happens.

Or, bring back unions because the bifurcation of classes that we have seen over the last 30 years tracks with union decline. It seems reversing that trend would reverse that wage disparity trend.

 

[TurtleDude]

That is dishonest as ****. Once again, you're forgetting that a lot of the tax paying rich is in the form of the extremely high middle class/lower rich class.

The super rich like Romney (effective tax rate of only 14%) are outliers that make your "HALF THE WORLD ZOMG" statement true.

1) her claim about the world has no relevance to the USA

2) the top one percent only make about 22% of the INCOME yet pay 40% of the INCOME tax and ALL of the ESTATE/Death tax which is nothing more than a surcharge added to the income tax

3) the TOP ONE PERCENT don't use anywhere near 22% of the services paid for by the income tax let alone 40% so they are paying more than their fair share

4) even if Romney only pays a 14% effective rate-that is still much higher than most americans and in actual dollars more than 75 million americans pay in income tax

does anyone believe Romney uses more government services than 75 million americans do?

 

[TurtleDude]

So you are suggesting we become one to lower the suicide rate:lamo

in many cases suicide is a benefit to society. you cannot judge suicides in a vacuum

 

[VanceMack]

I have no idea where you got $78/hr. for line operators.

But the idea that it makes macroeconomic sense to stop paying Americans; sent their jobs overseas at a fraction of the wage; then, expect those Americans who are earning less to be able to buy your goods, well, doesn't make sense.

To be able to buy what a company manufactures requires consumers to have enough income. That's why the 10 year olds making $1 a day sewing Nike sneakers can't afford what they manufacture.

I think you need to have a bit more respect for unions. The reason most Americans have a five-day-week and weekends off, is because of unions. As unions declined, so did wages of workers -- all while productivity increased and the share of the top 1%.

Unions have consistently ****ed over their people for cause. Industrial jobs are gone. You want to see how devastating the service unions have been, look no further than the Culinary Unions in Vegas. Every time union management calls the ball, its the workers that get ****ed. Over and over and over.

Unions are done and they are done for a reason. They are corrupt blood suckers that have no value in modern industrial society. Because of their corrupt ties with democrats in this country they have even managed forced unionization of family members that provide for disabled kids in their own home (Illinois, Minnesota, others). The states pay the unions directly from the benefits that would otherwise go to the care of the family members. In return, those unions provide a nice fat kickback to the politicians.

 

[TurtleDude]

The welfare system is here to stay whether you like it or not, not a damn thing you can do about it, as long as you have rich people their will be poor people, only the ignorant can't accept this..

You wanna know something else?? I don't wanna pay for unwinnable wars that drag on forever, isn't that imposing costs on US CITIZENS AND TAXPAYERS??

You don't wanna pay the poor having kids! Tough ****, as long as I have to pay for the USA to lose wars, you will pay for welfare..

the most expensive war we have lost is the war on poverty. and where do you get off saying I want wars? that is even more idiotic than most of the stuff you spew

 

[TurtleDude]

Unions have consistently ****ed over their people for cause. Industrial jobs are gone. You want to see how devastating the service unions have been, look no further than the Culinary Unions in Vegas. Every time union management calls the ball, its the workers that get ****ed. Over and over and over.

Unions are done and they are done for a reason. They are corrupt blood suckers that have no value in modern industrial society. Because of their corrupt ties with democrats in this country they have even managed forced unionization of family members that provide for disabled kids in their own home (Illinois, Minnesota, others). The states pay the unions directly from the benefits that would otherwise go to the care of the family members. In return, those unions provide a nice fat kickback to the politicians.

the only place where unions can survive is the one place where they should have been completely banned to start with-the public sector

 

[Critter7r]

Seeing that there are not nearly enough jobs for everybody in this country, it's mathematically impossible for people not to be on welfare.

why are people who cannot find jobs having children? I think way too many people expect to be GIVEN a job rather than making themselves marketable

Clearest case of moving the goalposts I've EVER seen.

 

[TurtleDude]

Clearest case of moving the goalposts I've EVER seen.

an interesting comment from a conservative (LOL). the fact is most of those in poverty are the offspring of uneducated underage KIDS who got knocked up in their teens. Being born to an uneducated unwed teenage mother is the surest guarantee of being unemployed and poor you can be dealt.

 

[MTAtech]

Unions have consistently ****ed over their people for cause. Industrial jobs are gone. You want to see how devastating the service unions have been, look no further than the Culinary Unions in Vegas. Every time union management calls the ball, its the workers that get ****ed. Over and over and over.

Unions are done and they are done for a reason. They are corrupt blood suckers that have no value in modern industrial society. Because of their corrupt ties with democrats in this country they have even managed forced unionization of family members that provide for disabled kids in their own home (Illinois, Minnesota, others). The states pay the unions directly from the benefits that would otherwise go to the care of the family members. In return, those unions provide a nice fat kickback to the politicians.

You posting style is to post baseless assertions as if they were facts. Your assertion about manufacturing is but one of them in this post. The below graph undercuts that assertion but the rest are equally baseless. Unions have a great deal of value for workers in today's America, as evident by the erosion of worker benefits, such as medical and pensions. But what puzzles me is how someone who probably is a member of the middle class argues against your own self-interest and takes the side of the billionaire capital owners and support the political party that is less likely to protect your worker safety, less likely to protect your job, and less likely to benefit you economically.

 

[VanceMack]

We have a higher suicide rate

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not anymore.

Swedish youth suicides hit 25-year high - The Local

 

[Reformedfindlay]

1) her claim about the world has no relevance to the USA

2) the top one percent only make about 22% of the INCOME yet pay 40% of the INCOME tax and ALL of the ESTATE/Death tax which is nothing more than a surcharge added to the income tax

3) the TOP ONE PERCENT don't use anywhere near 22% of the services paid for by the income tax let alone 40% so they are paying more than their fair share

4) even if Romney only pays a 14% effective rate-that is still much higher than most americans and in actual dollars more than 75 million americans pay in income tax

does anyone believe Romney uses more government services than 75 million americans do?

You're being dishonest. The tax rate is more important than the tax in actual dollars.

If actual dollars meant anything, you would be advocating that Romney have an effective tax rate of less than a single percent.

If one group has to pay 20 or 30% of whatever they make, then all groups should pay that much. Tax deduction laws may be made for those who invest and depending on how much they invest. The idea that the middle and lower rich class should be ****ed because the poor want something to chew and the hyper rich troll with offshore tax havens is moronic, and if you subscribe to that bull****, well, in this case, you know what that makes you.

 

[VanceMack]

You posting style is to post baseless assertions as if they were facts. Your assertion about manufacturing is but one of them in this post. The below graph undercuts that assertion but the rest are equally baseless.

Your posting style is to throw out bull**** posts from places like Mother Jones or graphs which mean absolutely nothing offering the pretense that things are what they arent. Its a trick that worked quite well for the Wizard too...until someone pulled down his curtain and exposed him for the fraud that he was.

"A total of 3.2 million – one in six U.S. factory jobs – have disappeared since the start of 2000. The manufacturing sector of the U.S. economy has experienced substantial job losses over the past several years. In January 2004, the number of such jobs stood at 14.3 million, down by 3.0 million jobs, or 17.5 percent, since July 2000 and about 5.2 million since the historical peak in 1979."

The auto industry was on life support in this country. What saved it? 2 things. 1-Foreign non union auto manufacturing. 2-UAW realized they were dying and got smart and gutted their labor costing to create the possibility for jobs.
The Decline and Resurgence of the U.S. Auto Industry | Economic Policy Institute

Unions have hurt the American worker. Thats just a fact.

 

[ocean515]

Poverty in the US has fallen modestly since LBJ declared war on poverty.

It went from from 19% in 1964 to 15% in 2012.( latest stat)

It would seem that is what the statistics are showing.

So, another $3-4 trillion, and another 40 years, perhaps we can bring poverty levels down to 11-12%?

 

[MTAtech]

...

Unions have hurt the American worker. Thats just a fact.

No, that's an opinion.

 

[minnie616]

It would seem that is what the statistics are showing.

So, another $3-4 trillion, and another 40 years, perhaps we can bring poverty levels down to 11-12%?

While our poverty percentage has only decreased a modest 4 percent from 19 percent to 15 percent we have housing and food stamps avaible for those in property who seek to use it.

Yes , we still have the homeless, most who are either mentally ill or choose not be in one place for whatever reason.

ETA:

What I think would help most is some kind of quality child care for young children of those in poverty.

 

[ocean515]

Add It Up: The Average American Family Pays $6,000 a Year in Subsidies to Big Business | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

Dang I love the Progressive load of BS they publish. You know what I would love to see just once in these dog whistle articles? The economic benefit to the economy businesses, both big and small, provide.

It's always the same pant load of catch phrases. "The US spends $xxxxxx on Corporate Welfare....", "The government gives $xxxx in subsidies".

The government doesn't spend anything on Corporate Welfare. It allows Corporations to retain earnings, rather than tax it.

If Proglibs want to sell this $6k tripe, then they must also present the fact that corporations provide a dollar figure that average families receive as a result.

Without that level of honesty, there is nothing useful to read.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

the wealth vandals think that rich people hide gold coins under their mattresses. The way most rich people stay rich is investing money in businesses that are profitable

But not all "investment" helps the economy. You probably have money invested in the stock market, right? How does that money get to businesses? It doesn't, unless you bought an IPO. When you buy and trade stock, you are just passing money among the well-off. Putting money into a bank likewise does not help business - banks don't lend out your deposits.

So unless you are buying stuff (domestically, hopefully) or investing directly into a business, there is lost demand in there.

 

[minnie616]

Dang I love the Progressive load of BS they publish. You know what I would love to see just once in these dog whistle articles? The economic benefit to the economy businesses, both big and small, provide.

It's always the same pant load of catch phrases. "The US spends $xxxxxx on Corporate Welfare....", "The government gives $xxxx in subsidies".

The government doesn't spend anything on Corporate Welfare. It allows Corporations to retain earnings, rather than tax it.

If Proglibs want to sell this $6k tripe, then they must also present the fact that corporations provide a dollar figure that average families receive as a result.

Without that level of honesty, there is nothing useful to read.

Yeah , I hear ya.
Large Corporations get to retain more of their earnings rather than tax it. But small business owners and medium sized companies get taxed.

All companies including big corporations should be taxed.
Stop letting the few chosen corporations " retain more of their income " rather than tax it.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Yep. OP doesn't know economics. Always strive for a huge middle class and always look out for the middle class first.

And I say that as a person coming from more of an upper class family (low end rich?).

The problem with that theory is that you don't have a healthy middle class without a healthy underclass. The middle class disappears when you get a large disparity in income between ownership and labor - middle class has traditionally been not ownership, but management, upper end labor, and generally jobs where there is some significant demand for your skills. But even our middle class is suffering from a soft labor market. Even our jobs are being lost overseas. But ownership reaps the benefits of a weak labor market, because they simply pay labor less, and pocket the difference. A good labor market starts at the bottom.

 

[TurtleDude]

You're being dishonest. The tax rate is more important than the tax in actual dollars.

If actual dollars meant anything, you would be advocating that Romney have an effective tax rate of less than a single percent.

If one group has to pay 20 or 30% of whatever they make, then all groups should pay that much. Tax deduction laws may be made for those who invest and depending on how much they invest. The idea that the middle and lower rich class should be ****ed because the poor want something to chew and the hyper rich troll with offshore tax havens is moronic, and if you subscribe to that bull****, well, in this case, you know what that makes you.

How is that dishonest? I oppose any and all tax on income. I oppose people being forced to pay more than they use by a substantial margin. and the only reason why I support a flat tax is because, while unfair to the high income bracket-it at least emasculates the ability of the pimps in office to pander to the many by promising them more stuff paid for by raising the marginal rates on the rich

 

[WCH]

At a minimum, we need a steeply progressive income tax. Everyone will pay more but some more than others.

Workforce participation is low and most things are expensive...to bad.

 

[TurtleDude]

The problem with that theory is that you don't have a healthy middle class without a healthy underclass. The middle class disappears when you get a large disparity in income between ownership and labor - middle class has traditionally been not ownership, but management, upper end labor, and generally jobs where there is some significant demand for your skills. But even our middle class is suffering from a soft labor market. Even our jobs are being lost overseas. But ownership reaps the benefits of a weak labor market, because they simply pay labor less, and pocket the difference. A good labor market starts at the bottom.

sounds like the stuff I used to hear in my graduate labor economics class

the professors could never answer-what is the solution to a global labor market unless every laborer in every country demands the same wage for the same work?

 

[TurtleDude]

Nonsense. "Promote the general welfare." It's in the Constitution.

another example of your misunderstanding what the constitution says. that interpretation of yours could just as easily be used to justify the extermination of the weak, the sick and others who are a burden on society