The other mass shooting yesterday ...

[Bodi]

Different but the same. Far more dead bodies in the day to day ops realm. During that time off the top of my head I know of a 9 year old executed in Chicago, a 3 month old killed in a drive by in Cleveland, a 20 month old again in Chicago, a 20 year old woman just a victim of a stray gunshot from one gang banger to another. 17 - 1726. I know where our emphasis OUGHT to be.

Not saying the San Bernadino story isnt big news. Its just a shame the other stories arent as well.

You want a 24/7 Murder News Show talking about all this? I don't.

If my crazy ex murders me I don't expect to make the news...
If my crazy ex comes to my work and murders 15 people in an effort to kill my I would expect that to make the news...

 

[Bodi]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up 1000 rounds of XM193 for $329 so they're really not all that expensive. They're the same per round as I pay for .45 ACP range rounds.

Now multiply that by 15o million or so people... his point is valid.

 

[Lutherf]

Now multiply that by 15o million or so people... his point is valid.

Well, I was only buying 1000 rounds. My understanding is that you get a better discount if you're buying a billion rounds.

 

[Bodi]

Well, I was only buying 1000 rounds. My understanding is that you get a better discount if you're buying a billion rounds.

:lol:

.

 

[Fledermaus]

Quick link ...

Of course the headline shooting unfolds yet as almost every week we have other mass shootings. This one was really buried. I wonder if we loosen gun laws … just hand out assault rifles to everyone … it will stop the insanity of senseless mass murders?
(BTW I am am in favor of the second amendment … and work in a high risk position and feel very comfortable without any weapons on my person).


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-that-happened-today-in-the-united-states/

Who (other than the military) has assault rifles?

 

[Montecresto]

Sure. Lots can be done. Of course...Id start with people like you joining Duece and the other peace brigade types and go door to door and start seizing weapons from those that holdd them illegally. But since THATS not likely to happen...

Ive said all this before. Simple minded solutions like picking a cause (oh...say...mental health) and promoting that as a solution to anything is ridiculous. There needs to be a climate of change created by senior leadership in political offices, in communities, and businesses. There needs to be a commitment to universal change and that ios going to mean some real hard core decisions. Start spreading the news...no more excuses. I dont care if your great great great great great grandma is the decendent of a slave. I dont care if you live in poverty. I dont care if you live in West Chicago or a trailer park in the Appalachian mountains. You commit a violent crime you are going to big boy prison for a loooooooooooooong long time. Sure...lets reform those prisons. No more prison sentences solely for drug use. Build new schools that focus on actual education and not social engineering. Encourage economic growth and development by bringing together politicians, businesses, industry, and labor. Hell...invest in tearing down crime infested abandoned neighborhoods and building new housing, new business opportunities. Oh...and did we mention the mandatory minimum prison sentences for dealers and organized criminal enterprises that tend to follow those kinds of developmental ventures/

Most importantly...just stop what we are doing. Stop the excuses. Stop the blaming. Stop the whining about yesterday.

Or...dont.

Theres a massive gaping wound. Quick...apply another bandage.

Gun confiscation is not a solution, and not just because Duece and I won't do it. Your list of ideas, glad to see that you finally developed one, isn't all that bad, but lots of it, while it may be helpful for some things, won't have any bearing on mass murder by mentally ill. These guys generally have no criminal record and their first event is their last event. These are people that often (but certainly not always) have been in and out of contact with mental health professionals throughout their lives, but there's no connecting the dots. An EMR database for mental health, just as we now have for physical health, would help to do that. The prescription drug abuse became so problematic that a data base has been created to track that now. I propose similar.

 

[Lursa]

During their coverage of the San Bernardino shootings yesterday, our local news said that the definition used for mass shootings was 4 or more.

No idea how widely used that definition is but they made it sound 'official.'

 

[VanceMack]

Gun confiscation is not a solution, and not just because Duece and I won't do it. Your list of ideas, glad to see that you finally developed one, isn't all that bad, but lots of it, while it may be helpful for some things, won't have any bearing on mass murder by mentally ill. These guys generally have no criminal record and their first event is their last event. These are people that often (but certainly not always) have been in and out of contact with mental health professionals throughout their lives, but there's no connecting the dots. An EMR database for mental health, just as we now have for physical health, would help to do that. The prescription drug abuse became so problematic that a data base has been created to track that now. I propose similar.

See...thats your problem (not that we didnt know it already). You dont give a **** about mass murders...or killings, or gun violence in general. Its well established...all you care about is just another camels nose in the tent form of gun control. Do us both a favor and stop lying about it. You dont even care about the mental health issue in general. As soon as it is PROVEN that those mentally ill people pose a FAR greater risk to children, you vanish.

Want even MORE proof? I mean...other than your admission in the previous thread?

Three instances. Colorado, San Bernadino, Savannah. All three of them find you pimping your ridiculous cause. All three of them...would have not been impacted in the least by your ridiculous charade of concern. Does it matter that it would have no relative bearing? Of course not. Does that stop you? Of course not. Because hey...never let a tragedy go to waste...right?

 

[Montecresto]

See...thats your problem (not that we didnt know it already). You dont give a **** abotu mass murders...or killings, or gun violenc e in general. Its well established...all you care about is just another camels nose in the tent form of gun control. Do us both a favor and stop lying about it.

Want even MORE proof? I mean...other than your admission in the previous thread?

Three instances. Colorado, San Bernadino, Savannah. All three of them find you pimping your ridiculous cause. All three of them...would have not been impacted in the least by your ridiculous charade of concern. Does it matter that it would have no relative bearing/ Of course not. Does that stop you? Of course not. Because hey...never let a tragedy go to waste...right?

I've never made suggestions for dealing with crimes such as the one in San Bernadino. That's a far greater problem to arrest than mass murder by the mentally ill. I don't support more gun laws and some that we already have probably aren't helpful. People determined to commit gun violence can get around gun laws. I'm interested in mentally ill people control and preventing them from walking into a gun shop and legally buying guns and ammo to then commit their mass murder with.

 

[VanceMack]

I've never made suggestions for dealing with crimes such as the one in San Bernadino. That's a far greater problem to arrest than mass murder by the mentally ill. I don't support more gun laws and some that we already have probably aren't helpful. People determined to commit gun violence can get around gun laws. I'm interested in mentally ill people control and preventing them from walking into a gun shop and legally buying guns and ammo to then commit their mass murder with.

Youve jumped into every thread you can find trying to pimp your 'reasonable' gun control knowing fully well nothing you were proposing was, then or now, relevant to the thread. Because its not about the incidents, its about the promotion of your cause.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You do that too.

OK, don't interfere with the 2A.

 

[VanceMack]

You want a 24/7 Murder News Show talking about all this? I don't.

If my crazy ex murders me I don't expect to make the news...
If my crazy ex comes to my work and murders 15 people in an effort to kill my I would expect that to make the news...

If your crazy ex wife kiled you, it would be a story. If she killed a bunch of people it would also be a story.If she killed them to strike terror into the hearts of school teachers everywhere it would be a very different kind of story but still a story.

I do want those incidents being pumped every minute until people wake up. Then I want to see action. I want community leaders to be put on the spot. I want to see solutions...real solutions.

 

[Turin]

You think murderers care about following gun laws? Have some common sense.

Heck no they do not care about law.

 

[TurtleDude]

Heck no they do not care about law.

The only way to stop active killers (who almost always know they are going to die at the end of their killings) is to kill them as soon as possible after they start their murder spree

pretending that the consequences of being convicted and punished deters them is as silly as believing Kamikaze pilots were worried about being taken POW by the US navy in WWII

 

[Montecresto]

Youve jumped into every thread you can find trying to pimp your 'reasonable' gun control knowing fully well nothing you were proposing was, then or now, relevant to the thread. Because its not about the incidents, its about the promotion of your cause.

I've never advocated gun control. That's your continual straw man. I'm about mentally ill people control, and have been clear about that. For reasons beyond mass murder. Most homeless people btw are mentally ill. We haven't addressed the mental illness in America as we should.

 

[Montecresto]

OK, don't interfere with the 2A.

That's how you're going to prevent mass murder by gun, lol. It's odd that you guys aren't interested in preventing mentally ill people from walking into Walmart and buying guns and ammo to then go kill 20 people. :roll:

 

[ttwtt78640]

That's how you're going to prevent mass murder by gun, lol. It's odd that you guys aren't interested in preventing mentally ill people from walking into Walmart and buying guns and ammo to then go kill 20 people. :roll:

I am not willing to allow those found by a court to be mentally ill to even walk freely among us, much less legally buy guns, ammo, flammable liquids or explosives. The idea that we should allow folks deemed to be so dangerous (by due process of law) to walk freely among us and then seek to prevent any of them from gaining access to guns, flammable liquids or explosives is not working out well. Placing people on lists and then denying almost everyone access to those lists is a problem - not a solution.

 

[Montecresto]

I am not willing to allow those found by a court to be mentally ill to even walk freely among us, much less legally buy guns, ammo, flammable liquids or explosives. The idea that we should allow folks deemed to be so dangerous (by due process of law) to walk freely among us and then seek to prevent any of them from gaining access to guns, flammable liquids or explosives is not working out well. Placing people on lists and then denying almost everyone access to those lists is a problem - not a solution.

What do you mean by "denying almost everyone access to those lists"?

 

[ttwtt78640]

What do you mean by "denying almost everyone access to those lists"?

As far as I know, FFL dealers are the only non-government employees allowed to do NICS database queries. If I, as a private gun seller or even as a clerk in a beer, bait and ammo store, cannot know who is on the current "no gun" list then how would I know not to sell to those "bad guys"?

 

[VanceMack]

I've never advocated gun control. That's your continual straw man. I'm about mentally ill people control, and have been clear about that. For reasons beyond mass murder. Most homeless people btw are mentally ill. We haven't addressed the mental illness in America as we should.

:lamo

Bull****. Thats a lie and you know it. You have been challenged to apply your mental health database and controls universally to people that represent threats. You scoff at the notion. You laughingly replied that you will worry about it when THEY represent a greater threat than mass shooters. I showed you the facts in absolute numbers that mental health in partents kills over 10 times those due to 'mass shootings'-that it is already happening. You even admit the ridiculous plan you keep pimping would have zero impact on these last three incidents...yet that hasnt stopped you from pushing it. Your intent is clear. And you know it. And it will be pointed out every time.

 

[Erod]

What's your plan?

Shoot back.

 

[Visbek]

Of course the headline shooting unfolds yet as almost every week we have other mass shootings. This one was really buried. I wonder if we loosen gun laws … just hand out assault rifles to everyone … it will stop the insanity of senseless mass murders?

Most mass shootings (4 or more people injured or killed) get ignored. There's more than 1 per day now in the US. (Big splashy news coverage is closer to once or twice a month.)

About half of mass shootings involve someone shooting a current or former partner. Half of the victims of these incidents are women, whereas for all homicides women are only 15% of the victims. By the way, somewhere around 60% of mass shooters are young white males.

Mass shootings only make up a tiny portion of firearm-related homicides in the US. In 2015 so far, 462 people were killed in mass shootings, whereas the total number of firearm-related homicides this year is around 10,000. That's less than 5%.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that increasing gun ownership is going to change this. Are you going to carry a loaded AR-15 to your company's holiday party? Are you going to keep a .45 trained on your romantic partner at all times, because there is a statistically insignificant chance that he will go crazy and try to kill everyone in your home? How many people are genuinely trained to deal with shooters, who plan their killings in advance?

 

[Montecresto]

As far as I know, FFL dealers are the only non-government employees allowed to do NICS database queries. If I, as a private gun seller or even as a clerk in a beer, bait and ammo store, cannot know who is on the current "no gun" list then how would I know not to sell to those "bad guys"?

I wasn't aware of that and would agree with you that that needs repair.

 

[Montecresto]

:lamo

Bull****. Thats a lie and you know it. You have been challenged to apply your mental health database and controls universally to people that represent threats. You scoff at the notion. You laughingly replied that you will worry about it when THEY represent a greater threat than mass shooters. I showed you the facts in absolute numbers that mental health in partents kills over 10 times those due to 'mass shootings'-that it is already happening. You even admit the ridiculous plan you keep pimping would have zero impact on these last three incidents...yet that hasnt stopped you from pushing it. Your intent is clear. And you know it. And it will be pointed out every time.

I don't have a problem with you putting controls on anybody that poses threats. What are you talking about. Go lobby for that all you wish. I'm just focused on the mentally ill being sold firearms and ammo that they then go out and use to kill 20 people. I'm sick of this stupidity, and I want it stopped. If we don't stop selling crazy people guns, they will continue buying them and killing us with them.

 

[Montecresto]

Shoot back.

Most teachers oppose the responsibility.