The OSHA vaccine mandate is reality!

[Ethel2]

It’s lega

It's contentious if you care about the rule of law.

lts legal until it’s declared otherwise by the courts
Only if you are a covidiot is it a problem

 

[NatMorton]

It’s lega

lts legal until it’s declared otherwise by the courts
Only if you are a covidiot is it a problem

Yes, but the question is whether it is ultimately legal. Do you think anyone who questions OSHA's authority in this matter is a "covidiot?"

 

[Ethel2]

Yes, but the question is whether it is ultimately legal. Do you think anyone who questions OSHA's authority in this matter is a "covidiot?"

I think anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated and is eligible is a covidiot

 

[NatMorton]

I think anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated and is eligible is a covidiot

That's nice, but is there a reason you're not answering the question I actually asked?

 

[Ethel2]

That's nice, but is there a reason you're not answering the question I actually asked?

Sure
Question all you want.
And accept that for now it’s legal

 

[Slartibartfast]

Okay .. I'll humor you. Biden made the announcement earlier this year on company mandates ... earlier this year .. like months ago. You're suggesting the wait is because of business adopting this .. yet .. it's only been recently that Biden set a firm date. The very large organization I am employed, already had this up and running within a couple weeks .. You feel organizations aren't capable of aligning this in 3? 5? 6 months? How many organizations will drop employees to fall below the 100 mark? Why are unions, like the USPO exempt?

The company I work for would take at least a month to set this up. It’s a multinational based on Europe

 

[MAGAnificent]

Well, I am excited that Pfizer has come up with a pill, and I hope his predictions are correct but it's not approved here yet, and I do hope that Trumpers are on board with this new therapy. It's not like we didn't have a vaccine from the same company that could have saved those thousands of vaccine hesitant's who died the last 6 months.
The problem was their refusal of what they thought was a human experiment by the government working with a drug company, they didn't trust it. I don't think they were just afraid of needles. So, what hope do you have that they'll take it?
Does it depend on the next FB Pfizer pill conspiracy story? Or do you think they'll be desperate enough once in the hospital to pop down any old thing?

You are falsely assuming that Trumpers in general opposed the vaccines or are vaccine hesitant. You are also falsely mistaking anti-mandate for anti-vaccine. I am a Trumper in a deep red state and just do not see significant vaccine hesitancy in the Trump world. It was Trump's "Operation Warp Speed that delivered the vaccine in record time to begin with. And according to the governors of the deep red states, vaccine is not a red vs blue issue. It's a socio-economic issue. The hesitancy is primarily in the poor inner city and poor rural areas. Perhaps they were influenced by Dopey Joe Biden and Cackling Kamela Harris sowing distrust in the vaccine if it was developed while Trump was still in office,

 

[MAGAnificent]

Sure

FYI, a federal judge has just issued a stay on the Oval Office turd's vaccine mandate, at least in Texas.

 

[Callen]

FYI, a federal judge has just issued a stay on the Oval Office turd's vaccine mandate, at least in Texas

A stay until when?

 

[MAGAnificent]

A stay until when?

Until the lawsuit filed by Texas makes it through the courts.

 

[eohrnberger]

You are falsely assuming that Trumpers in general opposed the vaccines or are vaccine hesitant. You are also falsely mistaking anti-mandate for anti-vaccine. I am a Trumper in a deep red state and just do not see significant vaccine hesitancy in the Trump world. It was Trump's "Operation Warp Speed that delivered the vaccine in record time to begin with. And according to the governors of the deep red states, vaccine is not a red vs blue issue. It's a socio-economic issue. The hesitancy is primarily in the poor inner city and poor rural areas. Perhaps they were influenced by Dopey Joe Biden and Cackling Kamela Harris sowing distrust in the vaccine if it was developed while Trump was still in office,

Taking this sentiment a little further, being anti-mandate is not the same as being anti-vaccine.
Being anti-mandate has more to do with appropriately limiting government power, enabling the individual to make their own choice without retribution, coercion, or by force.

 

[jdog]

• Reasons why the Mandate will never be enforced and will be thrown out by every judge who rules on it.
• OSHA claims this is an "Emergency" and requires immediate action. However, it wasn't an emergency 11 months ago. Nor was it one in September, when there were many, many more cases and deaths than there are today. It also isn't one now until January 2nd, directly after a number of industry groups complained about the impact of it on the holidays. Note that the alleged "authority" that OSHA has to deal with workplace insults and risks when it comes to an ETS depends on it being an actual emergency. OSHA cannot deliberately decide to sacrifice employees "up to a specific date because its inconvenient for their employers." Indeed that act alone invalidates the ETS as it makes clear there is no emergency at all and the claim of one is a pretext.
  
  
• OSHA's regulatory authority is limited to workplaces. A risk that is diffuse and beyond the workplace in at least equal quality and severity is beyond their mandate. A respiratory virus is in that category. Can OSHA mandate asbestos regulations or concentrations of chemicals in the factory or other working environment? Sure. Can they mandate that which is in the outside air in the ordinary environment at the same level of risk? No. There is no specific and articulable risk within general employment that is not present everywhere else in ordinary life.
  
  
• OSHA is required to back up their findings and claims with actual science. They can't. Specifically there is no evidence that being jabbed is superior to being infected -- in fact, its the other way around. Even if it is superior at some point in time the alleged "rule" does not differentiate and, in the instant case, the evidence is that those who were jabbed in January of last year either lost all protection or actually have negative protection .vs. someone who was never vaccinated at all. This, incidentally, makes their entire argument pretextual (and which the administration has admitted.)
  
  
• OSHA is required to use the least-invasive means to address whatever it claims needs addressing. Demanding an invasive and permanent medical procedure is not the least-invasive means. For example they might be able to get away with a mask rule provided those medically-contraindicated are exempted or moved to other jobs and provided the employer pays for the masks; there are protocols for safe use of same which are in fact required in other industries and certain atmospheres. That's reasonable and carries no negative risk of temporary, permanent or catastrophic harm.
  
• OSHA has admitted that a less-invasive means exists through their "mask and test" option and thus is required to issue that, if they issue anything. The Civil Rights Act does not give you the right to put murder others. As such OSHA cannot mandate a jab if an alternative that is less-intrusive, which they admit to, is deemed acceptable. They deemed it reasonable, acceptable and effective. Their mandate thus falls by their own hand.
  
  
• OSHA further cannot mandate you play Russian Roulette in order to keep a job nor can they mandate your employer force you to playing Russian Roulette, even if they assert there is some other risk they're mitigating by doing so. They can put in place a standard that carries no identifiable risk, and do -- for example there is no identifiable risk to mandating guards on a punch press, hard hats on a construction site, air circulation standards in a factory where potential dust or other contamination is present, and similar. This mandate is for an invasive medical procedure that carries risk and it does not matter how small the risk is. OSHA simply has no authority to issue a rule that your employer must demand you risk grievous injury or death under penalty of fining them if you refuse.

 

[jotathought]

The company I work for would take at least a month to set this up. It’s a multinational based on Europe

and? 1 month? That's it? yet it's been nearly 3 - 5 months since the idea was pledged and another 2 - 3 months to implement? If your multinational company can implement in a month .. smaller companies can easily follow suit.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

No kidding about that broken record. Every freaking day.
It's not like a vaccine mandate will stop this virus. The vaccines (the current ones) just didn't live up to what the world hoped they would. Vaccinated people are getting and spreading the virus and variants are forming as the virus looks to work its way around the vaccines, just as viruses do. Some countries in Europe are in Covid hell right now with case numbers and plenty of these countries have had vaccines for as long as we have.
The how many "dead Americans are acceptable to you" question is just a stupid question because, like it or not, this world doesn't have a cure for Covid and a vaccine mandate isn't a cure. It's just an authority/control grab for the sake of authority/control. Also, since it's expected Covid may reduce to an endemic, it's a Biden type (stupid) tactic to then try to use a natural virus decline to try to link that to a mandate. So, it doesn't make sense to ask anyone what is acceptable to them. No countries have any way to meet any "acceptability death number" criteria. The virus has control of that narrative.
This is not a virus of the unvaccinated or the vaccinated. It spreads among all of us. And it further mutates as it works its way through the vaccinated group.

<SARC>You are absolutely correct. Why just look at the trend lines for the US since the vaccines were introduced. See how they are zooming upwards:

​

and take a look at the countries that are in the same economic class as the US, can't you see how much worse they are doing than the US is:

​

- don't those show how absolutely perfectly correct your evaluation is?</SARC>

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

None of my rights have been violated because I have not been fired from my job. Anyone who has been fired from their job for not being vaccinated has been denied their rights according to the 1st, 9th, and 10th amendments.

Get back to us when someone who has some actual knowledge of the law, and is in a position to make a definitive ruling on that, says the same thing.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Taking this sentiment a little further, being anti-mandate is not the same as being anti-vaccine.
Being anti-mandate has more to do with appropriately limiting government power, enabling the individual to make their own choice without retribution, coercion, or by force.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Mycroft]

Well, this didn't take long...

https://therightscoop.com/breaking-u-s-appeals-court-has-put-a-stop-to-bidens-vaccine-mandate/

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I'm still waiting for one person that I've asked, who are against vaccinations and/or safety, to give a number. Will you give one?

Note: I've been asking people for a number for so long that I do realize their number has probably increased and increased and increased over time. Try to give one that will not make you look bad in 6 months.

As I understand it, for the people who are doing everything that they can do to ensure that people die from COVID-19, the number was (as of Saturday, November 6, 2021) around of America is 333,611,885±5 (which would leave them and their immediate family alive).

 

[jdog]

Get back to us when someone who has some actual knowledge of the law, and is in a position to make a definitive ruling on that, says the same thing.

That will happen the minute the law actually is put into effect. Thousands of attorneys and I believe 11 states already have their paperwork ready. Of course they cannot sue until the law is actually put in force Jan 2nd. and my guess will be that Biden is playing chicken and will back out at the last minute.
If he does not, it will be interesting to see OSHA try to explain why a dire emergency that is so serious it requires the nullification of civil rights and the firing of thousands of employees was able to be postponed for 9 mos. since the vaccines release and the arbitrary date of Jan 2. Does not really seem that big of an emergency if it can be delayed so long. They may want to also explain why they agreed to postpone it until after the holidays on the request of the retailers. I think this is going to be fun.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Your ignorance of the law is monumental. First the right to free speech states the Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.
If you for any reason feel the fake vaccines, are against your religious beliefs, or that they harm you in any way, you are under your rights to refuse the vaccine without any legal repercussion. Anything done to you, in the way of a reprisal for your decision is a violation of your Constitutional rights, and therefore a violation of your Civil Rights and a actionable tort. It is exactly the same as firing you for being Catholic or Jewish.
No company rule, or code, or even Congressionally passed law can deprive you of your Constitutional rights. OSHA has no jurisdiction whatsoever in the area of communicable diseases, they are tasked with workplace safety practice, and have no authority to enforce any rules (not law) concerning vaccines or any other health related issue.
Joe Biden is pulling a big scam, and one even he has freely admitted is unconstitutional and will not stand up to SCOTUS review. His plan is to bluff as many people as he can into the death shots before his actions are actually put to the judicial test, at which point he knows they will be ruled unconstitutional.
In the mean time, the drug companies will make hundreds of billions of dollars and pay of dirty Joe and most State governors so they all will be filthy rich for the rest of their lives, and millions of people world wide will die from their immune systems being irreversibly damaged from the experiment.
The smart will live, and the stupid will die. It is simply Darwinism playing out in real life.

"No company rule, or code, or even Congressionally passed law can deprive you of your Constitutional rights."

Tell that to the American citizens who are legislatively prohibited from owning firearms and/or are legislatively denied the right to vote.

That being said, have a nice millennium.

 

[MAGAnificent]

That will happen the minute the law actually is put into effect. Thousands of attorneys and I believe 11 states already have their paperwork ready. Of course they cannot sue until the law is actually put in force Jan 2nd. and my guess will be that Biden is playing chicken and will back out at the last minute.
If he does not, it will be interesting to see OSHA try to explain why a dire emergency that is so serious it requires the nullification of civil rights and the firing of thousands of employees was able to be postponed for 9 mos. since the vaccines release and the arbitrary date of Jan 2. Does not really seem that big of an emergency if it can be delayed so long. They may want to also explain why they agreed to postpone it until after the holidays on the request of the retailers. I think this is going to be fun.

Taliban Joe is desperately racing to try to take credit when the pandemic ends in a couple months with or without the mandate.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Well, this didn't take long...

https://therightscoop.com/breaking-u-s-appeals-court-has-put-a-stop-to-bidens-vaccine-mandate/

If you understood the rules governing the issuing of "stays" then you would understand that this is no "big deal".

It's even less of a "big deal" when an order that isn't going to come into effect for more than four weeks gets "stayed".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That will happen the minute the law actually is put into effect. Thousands of attorneys and I believe 11 states already have their paperwork ready. Of course they cannot sue until the law is actually put in force Jan 2nd. and my guess will be that Biden is playing chicken and will back out at the last minute.
If he does not, it will be interesting to see OSHA try to explain why a dire emergency that is so serious it requires the nullification of civil rights and the firing of thousands of employees was able to be postponed for 9 mos. since the vaccines release and the arbitrary date of Jan 2. Does not really seem that big of an emergency if it can be delayed so long. They may want to also explain why they agreed to postpone it until after the holidays on the request of the retailers. I think this is going to be fun.

As I said, "Get back to us when someone who has some actual knowledge of the law, and is in a position to make a definitive ruling on that, says the same thing.".

PS - "Staying" a rule that isn't going to be in effect for several weeks is no "big deal". It's sort of like applying the brakes of a car that isn't moving.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The poster claimed that no one had actually filed a lawsuit.... soooo...

The number of lawsuits that are "won" without being filed is really pretty small.

 

[Ethel2]

• Reasons why the Mandate will never be enforced and will be thrown out by every judge who rules on it.
• OSHA claims this is an "Emergency" and requires immediate action. However, it wasn't an emergency 11 months ago. Nor was it one in September, when there were many, many more cases and deaths than there are today. It also isn't one now until January 2nd, directly after a number of industry groups complained about the impact of it on the holidays. Note that the alleged "authority" that OSHA has to deal with workplace insults and risks when it comes to an ETS depends on it being an actual emergency. OSHA cannot deliberately decide to sacrifice employees "up to a specific date because its inconvenient for their employers." Indeed that act alone invalidates the ETS as it makes clear there is no emergency at all and the claim of one is a pretext.
  
  
• OSHA's regulatory authority is limited to workplaces. A risk that is diffuse and beyond the workplace in at least equal quality and severity is beyond their mandate. A respiratory virus is in that category. Can OSHA mandate asbestos regulations or concentrations of chemicals in the factory or other working environment? Sure. Can they mandate that which is in the outside air in the ordinary environment at the same level of risk? No. There is no specific and articulable risk within general employment that is not present everywhere else in ordinary life.
  
  
• OSHA is required to back up their findings and claims with actual science. They can't. Specifically there is no evidence that being jabbed is superior to being infected -- in fact, its the other way around. Even if it is superior at some point in time the alleged "rule" does not differentiate and, in the instant case, the evidence is that those who were jabbed in January of last year either lost all protection or actually have negative protection .vs. someone who was never vaccinated at all. This, incidentally, makes their entire argument pretextual (and which the administration has admitted.)
  
  
• OSHA is required to use the least-invasive means to address whatever it claims needs addressing. Demanding an invasive and permanent medical procedure is not the least-invasive means. For example they might be able to get away with a mask rule provided those medically-contraindicated are exempted or moved to other jobs and provided the employer pays for the masks; there are protocols for safe use of same which are in fact required in other industries and certain atmospheres. That's reasonable and carries no negative risk of temporary, permanent or catastrophic harm.
• OSHA has admitted that a less-invasive means exists through their "mask and test" option and thus is required to issue that, if they issue anything. The Civil Rights Act does not give you the right to put murder others. As such OSHA cannot mandate a jab if an alternative that is less-intrusive, which they admit to, is deemed acceptable. They deemed it reasonable, acceptable and effective. Their mandate thus falls by their own hand.
  
  
• OSHA further cannot mandate you play Russian Roulette in order to keep a job nor can they mandate your employer force you to playing Russian Roulette, even if they assert there is some other risk they're mitigating by doing so. They can put in place a standard that carries no identifiable risk, and do -- for example there is no identifiable risk to mandating guards on a punch press, hard hats on a construction site, air circulation standards in a factory where potential dust or other contamination is present, and similar. This mandate is for an invasive medical procedure that carries risk and it does not matter how small the risk is. OSHA simply has no authority to issue a rule that your employer must demand you risk grievous injury or death under penalty of fining them if you refuse.

FoxNews talking points
Yawwwwwn