The only credible security guarantee for Ukraine is NATO membership

[Airyaman]

This thread is based on just a tweet, but it's not news, it's just a statement.



Do you agree or disagree?

I've always agreed. Ukraine must be part of NATO to stop Putin's aggression.

The Budapest Memorandum, with the US and UK as signatories, did nothing to stop Putin from invading Ukraine multiple times.

But there is one caveat: if Trump pulls us from NATO (with a compliant MAGA GOP Congress), all bets are off.

Thoughts?

 

[VySky]

I disagree. Ukraine still has much work to do in cleaning up corruption prior to any consideration given to joining NATO

 

[Airyaman]

I disagree. Ukraine still has much work to do in cleaning up corruption prior to any consideration given to joining NATO

As a Russian apologist, you'll always claim Ukraine is too corrupt.

Dismissed.

 

[Mycroft]

This thread is based on just a tweet, but it's not news, it's just a statement.



Do you agree or disagree?

I've always agreed. Ukraine must be part of NATO to stop Putin's aggression.

The Budapest Memorandum, with the US and UK as signatories, did nothing to stop Putin from invading Ukraine multiple times.

But there is one caveat: if Trump pulls us from NATO (with a compliant MAGA GOP Congress), all bets are off.

Thoughts?

Disagree.

The notion of Ukraine being in NATO is what started this mess.

A better solution...if Ukraine could ever get their shit together...is to be admitted into the EU.

 

[Airyaman]

Disagree.

The notion of Ukraine being in NATO is what started this mess.

A better solution...if Ukraine could ever get their shit together...is to be admitted into the EU.

How does being a EU member solve anything?

 

[j brown's body]

Disagree.

The notion of Ukraine being in NATO is what started this mess.

A better solution...if Ukraine could ever get their shit together...is to be admitted into the EU.

Their joining the EU is what started this mess.

The mess has caused more countries to join NATO. Why not Ukraine?

 

[Luce]

No.

The other option is the destruction of Russia as a single political entity.

 

[Luce]

Disagree.

The notion of Ukraine being in NATO is what started this mess.

A better solution...if Ukraine could ever get their shit together...is to be admitted into the EU.

Putin started this mess.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Putin started this mess.

Absolutely true, yet the (proposed) ‘deal’ seems to be rewarding that effort with Putin being allowed to keep (at least) all territory taken by force from Ukraine.

 

[Mycroft]

How does being a EU member solve anything?

Because it would remove the US from responsibility toward protecting Ukraine and place the responsibility directly on the European member countries of the EU.

Any attack by Russia on Ukraine would be an attack on the EU. I don't think Russia would risk attacking the EU directly.

In any case, this is really useless speculation because it is doubtful Ukraine will ever get their political and economic shit together enough to meet the EU's requirements for membership.

 

[Airyaman]

Because it would remove the US from responsibility toward protecting Ukraine and place the responsibility directly on the European member countries of the EU.

Any attack by Russia on Ukraine would be an attack on the EU. I don't think Russia would risk attacking the EU directly.

In any case, this is really useless speculation because it is doubtful Ukraine will ever get their political and economic shit together enough to meet the EU's requirements for membership.

If the US was not part of NATO, would you still hold this stance?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Other - a ‘NATO like’ security agreement (perhaps including various permanent sanctions on Russia) should suffice. Of course, anything which effectively rewards Putin (and Russia) for taking Ukrainian territory is a significant win for Putin (and Russia).

Note that Xi is watching closely, while still contemplating a military ‘solution’ to his lack of control over Taiwan (as part of a ‘one China’) problem.

 

[j brown's body]

Because it would remove the US from responsibility toward protecting Ukraine and place the responsibility directly on the European member countries of the EU.

Any attack by Russia on Ukraine would be an attack on the EU. I don't think Russia would risk attacking the EU directly.

In any case, this is really useless speculation because it is doubtful Ukraine will ever get their political and economic shit together enough to meet the EU's requirements for membership.

Trump could simply blame the NATO or EU country for starting the war and then abandon them, like he is doing in Ukraine.

 

[j brown's body]

Other - a ‘NATO like’ security agreement (perhaps including various permanent sanctions on Russia) should suffice. Of course, anything which effectively rewards Putin (and Russia) for taking Ukrainian territory is a significant win for Putin (and Russia).

Note that Xi is watching closely, while still contemplating a military ‘solution’ to his lack of control over Taiwan (as part of a ‘one China’) problem.

The world is watching the US abandon its commitment.

 

[Mycroft]

If the US was not part of NATO, would you still hold this stance?

Don't know. Perhaps.

 

[phoenix2020]

This thread is based on just a tweet, but it's not news, it's just a statement.



Do you agree or disagree?

I've always agreed. Ukraine must be part of NATO to stop Putin's aggression.

The Budapest Memorandum, with the US and UK as signatories, did nothing to stop Putin from invading Ukraine multiple times.

But there is one caveat: if Trump pulls us from NATO (with a compliant MAGA GOP Congress), all bets are off.

Thoughts?

Disagree. The only credible security guarantee for Ukraine are nuclear weapons. NATO membership is close but if you want absolute guarantees, then nukes are the way to go.

 

[phoenix2020]

As a Russian apologist, you'll always claim Ukraine is too corrupt.

Dismissed.

I for one am disappointed that we didn’t get some Hunter Biden stuff from @VySky. That was all we wanted from him on a thread like this, but he couldn’t even stick that landing. Sad.

 

[Brusan]

I disagree. Ukraine still has much work to do in cleaning up corruption prior to any consideration given to joining NATO

Strange that all the decades rife with very overt Russian corruption don't seem to bother you in the slightest.

 

[Tigerace117]

No.

The other option is the destruction of Russia as a single political entity.

Which the U.S. lacks the power to do in the first place.

 

[Tigerace117]

Strange that all the decades rife with very overt Russian corruption don't seem to bother you in the slightest.

Russia was never being invited into NATO, because that would render NATO’s existence meaningless.

Therefore, the “comparison” is weak.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Yep

 

[humbolt]

Who is willing to supply the military assets necessary to push Russia out of eastern Ukraine right now?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Who is willing to supply the military assets necessary to push Russia out of eastern Ukraine right now?

Nobody, thus Putin knows he can keep Ukrainian territory taken by force (so far) and possibly get a bit more if he can (further) delay making a ‘deal’.

 

[Loulit01]

Disagree.

The notion of Ukraine being in NATO is what started this mess.

A better solution...if Ukraine could ever get their shit together...is to be admitted into the EU.

What nonsense. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and has every right to join NATO if they and NATO agree.

E.U. membership has been in the works since 2022.

Accession of Ukraine to the European Union​

On 14 December 2023, the European Council decided to open accession negotiations with Ukraine. Accession negotiations officially opened on 25 June 2024, at the same time as those with Moldova. This signified another milestone in this country's ongoing efforts to align more closely with Western nations and diminish Russia's influence. If Ukraine becomes a member of the EU, it will be another former Soviet country after Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, which all joined the EU in 2004.

Accession of Ukraine to the European Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[j brown's body]

Nobody, thus Putin knows he can keep Ukrainian territory taken by force and possibly get a bit more if he can (further) delay making a ‘deal’.

As he schemes to take the rest of Ukraine. But peacefully.