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I'm not pointing fingers, calling people out or saying names . . . I'm just discussing something I've noticed.
Why is it that when someone from another country comes to this forum - a serious debate forum (and other forums - this isn't the only one I've seen this happen in) - and asks a question or makes a statement, obviously wanting to satisfy curiosity or understand something that they don't get about American culture (etc etc, you get my point) . . . People seem compelled to respond to them with the most ridiculous and asinine comments?
I really don't care how stupid or silly their question, debate or issue might *seem* to us - we should still show others a bit of respect and at least take a serious effort at explaining the issue or answering their question.
You know - just maybe some people could grow up for a moment with their responses?
Perhaps if we all replied maturely and seriously to their comments and questions they might come away from their occasional shoulder-brush with Americans with a more favorable opinion.
Anyone agree or see what I see?
People are more worried about being played for fools, than about coming off as assholes.
They think some of these "foreigners" are trolls, asking stupid questions so that they can laugh at us when we try to answer them earnestly.
As for myself personally, I can promise that I wouldn't think less of anyone who attempted to respond to a foreigner's question or comment politely and earnestly, even if that foreigner later turned out to be a troll, and made fun of the respondent.
There is no shame in trying to be helpful and cordial to strangers, even if your helpfulness and cordiality is met by mockery and ridicule. At least you tried.
Well hell, if you foreigners can't even spell the American language right, why should I listen to your opinion?My favourite is "your not American, you can't hold an opinion on domestic matters"
Well hell, if you foreigners can't even spell the American language right, why should I listen to your opinion?
:ind:
Almost two-thirds of us say that spelling among adults is on the decline; a quarter acknowledged that they were simply bad spellers. About a third said they got nervous filling out official forms or formal documents without a computer-based spell checker or at least a dictionary.
Well hell, if you foreigners can't even spell the American language right, why should I listen to your opinion?
:ind:
I admire:
- the assumption that anyone can realise their dreams and become a success in life (however defined) through hard work and their own merit. It energises and motivates everyone to give of their best and to be ambitious in the best way.
- The lack of cynicism towards society as a whole. When an American put his/her hand on their heart and pledges alleigance, you can be certain it is a genuine expression of alleigance. You can't say that about every nation.
- That this genuine pride in their nation makes Americans generous hosts and welcoming of any visitor to the US with genuine, heart-felt hospitality. Provided you're just visiting.
- That commitment to the principle (if not the practice) of free speech and freedom of religion is almost universal.
The things I like less:
- The entire concept of American exceptionalism. The US is not the first imperium to foster such a concept, but it was stupid and aggressive when the Romans/Ottomans/British did it, and it's still a stupid concept.
- The belief that the US system is so evolved and successful that its principles can be exported and applied anywhere, irrespective of other cultural traditions.
- An inability to laugh at themselves and their society in the company of non-Americans. It seems as if to do so shows weakness and a lack of all-important national pride. This isn't unique to the US, but it isn't a universal trait either.
Just this week I read of a poster (Soccerboy, I think) who was having to pay $40,000 a year for his university education. This suggests to me that opportunities to get the best education is based more on ability to pay than merit. Sorry, that's my digression.I also like this aspect of America that provides equal opportunity. The freedom of speech helps make that a reality.
That appears to me as just one aspect of the idea. Here's a fuller description and you'll see the aspects that might make non-Americans (and many Americans) sceptical of the entire concept.Ok, I take exception to the first two items on your negative list.
I don't recall the equivalent to American exceptionalism in the Romans/Ottomans/British. American exceptionalism is the description given to the equal opportunity that exists in this country. That anyone can start from nothing and make their way in the world through hard work. Immigrants to this country prove this time and again. The Asian immigrants are especially representative of this these days. Why can;t the blacks bring themselves out of poverty? Great question - they have lost their work ethic as the government pays for them. A horrible situation.
I think its principles can be exported, although I agree that it does not work everywhere. Often there are barriers: educational/literacy (e.g. Afghanistan), political - there exists an elite who will not allow Republicanism (e.g. Russia), ethnic (e.g Iraq). Places with ethnic homogeneity and good literacy can be seen as easily moving toward Republicanism as their elites transition into democracy advocates while preserving their influence.
Just this week I read of a poster (Soccerboy, I think) who was having to pay $40,000 a year for his university education. This suggests to me that opportunities to get the best education is based more on ability to pay than merit. Sorry, that's my digression.
That appears to me as just one aspect of the idea. Here's a fuller description and you'll see the aspects that might make non-Americans (and many Americans) sceptical of the entire concept.
American exceptionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think you have to buy into a degree of exceptionalist thinking to believe that the principle of a republican, representative, liberal democracy in its American incarnation is an ideal or a prototype that could be appropriate elsewhere and is the evolved, best model for social organisation yet to develop.
So far, my guarantee is holding good.
Perhaps it is that you only observe from afar and that you sources of information are typically biased.
I am sorry, what do you mean? That you pros and cons were accurate? I think not. Perhaps it is that you only observe from afar and that you sources of information are typically biased.
Perhaps it's because you're too close and your sense of superiority is clouding your judgement.
Sorry, I was referring to this statement from my first post:
"I guarantee, should this thread continue, that there will be more comment about the second set than the first." :2razz:
I'm not really intending to debate each of my comments. They really don't have to be accurate, because they are my personal impressions, and I'm often deluded. However, they are an accurate expression of my impressions.
I apologise on behalf of the rest of the English speaking world for making the language too difficult for Americans. :2razz:
People are more worried about being played for fools, than about coming off as assholes.
They think some of these "foreigners" are trolls, asking stupid questions so that they can laugh at us when we try to answer them earnestly.
As for myself personally, I can promise that I wouldn't think less of anyone who attempted to respond to a foreigner's question or comment politely and earnestly, even if that foreigner later turned out to be a troll, and made fun of the respondent.
There is no shame in trying to be helpful and cordial to strangers, even if your helpfulness and cordiality is met by mockery and ridicule. At least you tried.
Master "aluminum" first, then we'll talk...
Perhaps not, but I was responding to and agreeing with the sentiments of Aunt Spiker in the OP.Of course - not much point in discussing what we agree on.
The first point is wrong. We have exceptionalism, bt the Romans/Ottomans and Brits did not. We had exceptionalism before we became a super power and we will have it after we have ended being so. The only danger to exceptionalism is the heavy influx of Mexicans who will not transform into red-blooded Americans due the the proximity of their home country and the cultural influence it will have here in the States.
Americans are not unique in their belief that theirs is an exceptional nation. Many, if not all, countries have shared such national vanity at some time or another in their histories. The French mission civilisatrice, the British Empire, and the Third Reich, for example, were all accompanied by their own versions of exceptionalism. Americans are clearly not alone in holding exceptionalist beliefs. Neither are they unique in pursuing foreign policies that are informed by those cultural beliefs. In all countries policymaking is based to a certain extent on assumptions formed from unique elements of national culture.
You're talking complete bauxite!! :mrgreen:Master "aluminum" first, then we'll talk...
I think that some people do, and that was the thrust of the OP.Seriously...I don't discount others because they are foreigners.
I'm guessing the kind of debate we're having, one that has elicited no bashing of anyone so far.And really...when it comes to just posting for the sake of bashing...what is this thread doing exactly? And what kind of response is it eliciting?
The point of my first post was to show that as a non-American I harbour feelings of both admiration and scepticism for the US but, due to the nature of internet forums, it is only when one voices criticism that anyone takes notice, and then the level of jingoism or violent, knee-jerk reaction seems disproportionate. I think that's what the OP was thinking of when she started the thread.The reality is that as Americans MOST people see our system of government and constitutionally protected freedoms as being superior to anywhere else in the world. However that belief isn't necessarily compatible with others world beliefs and when people come to these sites, EVERYONE brings their won personal biases. And that will almost certainly guarantee worlds will collide.
I wouldn't doubt that for one second.And yes...some people just post from their own jingoistic perspective, but lets not pretend that some of the non-American posters don't wade in here doing the same thing.
The British Empire did have a similar concept although it was never reified into a Concept. I found this great article by Trevor B. McCrisken on answers.com
exceptionalism: Definition from Answers.com
It contains this statement:
Maybe it's the elitist in me, but misspellings drive me nuts. I lose all respect for someone who proves over and over that he can't spell. I had a boss who, in addition to her myriad of other shortcomings, could not spell to save her life. I just could not take her seriously when I would get an email that looked like a fifth grader wrote it.Right!
Because, as Americans, we're top-notch spellers. :roll:
Many Americans vexed by spelling - Washington Times
Maybe it's the elitist in me, but misspellings drive me nuts. I lose all respect for someone who proves over and over that he can't spell. I had a boss who, in addition to her myriad of other shortcomings, could not spell to save her life. I just could not take her seriously when I would get an email that looked like a fifth grader wrote it.
Maybe it's the elitist in me, but misspellings drive me nuts. I lose all respect for someone who proves over and over that he can't spell. I had a boss who, in addition to her myriad of other shortcomings, could not spell to save her life. I just could not take her seriously when I would get an email that looked like a fifth grader wrote it.
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